- 719
- 468
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dc comics
- 177,706
- 90,765
I don't remember. I will check.
- 930
- 378
Also NPI regarding space and timeI know we have talked about prime alot recently but why is this obvious time travel feat not on his updated profile in the speed section (and current superman's as well for that matter)
- 719
- 468
Many of Superman's feats, as well as those of many other characters, still haven't been evaluated, and their profiles are very outdated. If I remember correctly, since Superman's current feats couldn't be added to the Rebirth Superman profile, the plan was to create a new profile for him, but I don't think that ever ended up happeningI know we have talked about prime alot recently but why is this obvious time travel feat not on his updated profile in the speed section (and current superman's as well for that matter)
And no, this is not a time travel feat; it could be a case of Dimension Travel instead
What I mean is that Superboy Prime did not accomplish this through his speed; he simply travels across dimensions and through time by punching reality.
Maybe
- 184
- 194
I did not include it on my updated profile as he already has immeasurable speed even at his base form. He required Bart Allen to absorb the entire Speed Force to catch up to him. I can add this though; however, the way it is demonstrated here is more of a strength feat by shattering space and time than a speed feat. Plus, as a Pre-Crisis Kryptonian, he can effortlessly travel through time via pure speed alone.I know we have talked about prime alot recently but why is this obvious time travel feat not on his updated profile in the speed section (and current superman's as well for that matter)
- 719
- 468
He's truly an awesome character... absolutely incredible..
- 177,706
- 90,765
He used to be a murderous villain, and a severely distorted "take that" strawman character against any readers who have the audacity to dislike grimdark stories, remember?
- 719
- 468
Yeah, in Final Crisis he had a pretty childish attitude. He was very arrogant and kept insisting that he was the Superman, constantly emphasizing it, almost like a stubborn child. But now he has developed into a much better and even funny character who feels much closer to what a real Superman should be.He used to be a murderous villain, and a severely distorted "take that" strawman character against any readers who have the audacity to dislike grimdark stories, remember?
It's the complete opposite of the villainous Superboy he used to be.
He's much more nuanced now, and honestly, a lot better
- 332
- 160
This is absolute insanity
- 930
- 378
Which is why Geoff John sucksHe used to be a murderous villain, and a severely distorted "take that" strawman character against any readers who have the audacity to dislike grimdark stories, remember?
- 184
- 194
He was always kind of harshly judged by the community back in the day. If you actually look into it, it is easy to feel sympathy towards him. He was pretty young when he was suddenly thrust into situations that he believed to be fictional. Then as soon as soon as he started to get the hang of things all of existence and everyone he knew was erased. He then spent years (in the paradise dimension; however, time works differently there so from his perspective it likely felt far longer) watching his memories over and over again. He then watched as the universe that emerged after everything and everyone he knew was erased was not a pure one as his had been. He was used to the heroes being practically flawless and even the villains really were not all that evil, sure they would do bad things but they were not brutal sadists. He watched the new universe unfold with immoral heroes and brutal villains. He was then manipulated by Alexander Luthor Jr, who even he was not really a bad guy, he was trying to fix what had went wrong but went down the wrong path to do so. He eventually snapped seeing Connor Kent, after he had sacrificed everything, he sees that he has been replaced. Even still he could have returned to heroism; however, when he engaged the Teen Titan, the Doom Patrol, and a few other super teams, he did not realize his own strength and ends up killing people. The first time he does it he even states that he did not mean to; however, naturally the heroes just saw their friends and teammates die and continued to attack him instead of resolving the situation peacefully. Realistically, anyone would have reacted with violence towards Superboy Prime in that moment. The fact that they did was the point of no return for him and afterwards he became a tragic villain becoming increasingly more mentally unstable.
- 97
- 69
Fair, was not asking to be rude or anything just genuinely wondering why it wasn't included when it would just support immeasurable speed even more u know?
- 184
- 194
True. It is always better to have more supporting feats; however, I would categorize the scans you provided as AP feats and not speed.
Also, the Imgur link was not working before because I included a scan where SBP ripped off a dude’s arm so it got flagged, but not only does Bart Allen have to absorb the entire Speed Force to catch up to him, the first time The Flash family fought him they burnt out the entire Speed Force imprisoning him.
- 227
- 74
There's a statement by Prime that he said he able to flying back in time. I can put that if everyone agree that is immeasurable.
Im working in Superboy Prime profile make some adjustments of his ability like fourth wall.
Im working in Superboy Prime profile make some adjustments of his ability like fourth wall.
- 227
- 74
Actually, I'm wondering how quantum waveform collapse is equal to L1C. Im not an expert of terminology but i just want to know how Superman is L1C by quantum waveform collapse
- 719
- 468
Probably the characters that are going to be upgraded to Low 1-C will be done through chain scaling.
I didn’t fully understand that CRT in general, and I’ll get back to it later
I just want to say that in the previous CRT it was agreed that characters who directly affect the multiverse or the infinite universes within the multiverse were upgrade to Low 1-C
- 719
- 468
And I’m surprised that so many characters were upgraded to Low 1-C, but why was only Superman surprising to you?! He’s actually a really powerful character, it’s not even that surprising.
- 930
- 378
Uncountable infinity
- 719
- 468
Yeah, I remember something like that
A larger infinity called Aleph-1 was derived, which qualified for Low 1-C.
What I mean is that the infinite number of universes used to upgrade those characters was actually a much larger infinity known as Aleph-1. As a result, the multiverse was interpreted as having 4 spatial dimensions + 1 temporal dimension, making it 5D
- 184
- 194
I have been revamping Hal Jordan’s profile and it is clear that he is straight up the most powerful of the DC Herald tier characters.
He has much better feats than even Superman and reading through a lot of his comics, his hax and random abilities list is absurdly long. His Pre-Crisis incarnation is everything that people say about Pre-Crisis Superman but it is actually accurate in Hal’s case. His power set then was straight up BS being essentially a reality warper. This remained the case in the early Post-Crisis Era but as the rules of the Green Lantern Corps became more firmly established by writers, the endless list of hax and random abilities began to go away. He used to just will his ring to do things and they would happen, now he and other Lanterns mostly just use their constructs.
An accurate full list of the abilities he and other Green Lanterns have demonstrated would be so many pages long.
He has much better feats than even Superman and reading through a lot of his comics, his hax and random abilities list is absurdly long. His Pre-Crisis incarnation is everything that people say about Pre-Crisis Superman but it is actually accurate in Hal’s case. His power set then was straight up BS being essentially a reality warper. This remained the case in the early Post-Crisis Era but as the rules of the Green Lantern Corps became more firmly established by writers, the endless list of hax and random abilities began to go away. He used to just will his ring to do things and they would happen, now he and other Lanterns mostly just use their constructs.
An accurate full list of the abilities he and other Green Lanterns have demonstrated would be so many pages long.
MichaelCalistro
He/Him- 782
- 121
Question! Why are the New 52 characters still stuck at Solar Systen level while every other versions of the comic characters are getting suddenly gains and upgrades?
- 930
- 378
Because New 52 sucks
But on a serious note they only get good scaling from 2 things
Convergence and Darkseid War
- 930
- 378
I'm drunk af atm lmao
- 583
- 290
I just started reading geoff's run. Can't wait to see your revision
- 719
- 468
The only characters with a high Tier in New 52 are Anti-Monitor and Darkseid...
The rest of the characters are pretty much Solar System level
Overall, yeah, New 52 is terrible.
Both in terms of story and power scaling.
MichaelCalistro
He/Him- 782
- 121
Answer to Who would win in a fight, Buu Saga Goku or New 52 Superman? by Anonymous https://www.quora.com/Who-would-win...0&share=a21987de&srid=FEBi&target_type=answer
Then what do you call this?
- 260
- 70
I'm tryna upgrade them to High 3A
High 3A New 52 Doomsday + Other High 3A Heralds Upgrade For New 52 Heralds
Doomsday broke the phantom zone with his punches , destabilizing the the entire zone (batman/superman 2013 issue 11). The cover of the issue literally says new 52 so this should scale to new 52 doomsday This would be a high 3A feat because the phantom zone is already accepted on this site as an...
Although my last reply to that thread was a plan to rewrite the entire thing cuz I found the supes punching god brainiac thing
And how god of strength supes can damage anti monitor, then wonder woman being able to restrain god of strength superman
So yes, there's higher scaling than just 4B for new 52
- 719
- 468
I think Mobius was completely weakened in the form where Superman and Ultraman managed to hurt him, and he had reached a very different level compared to when he fought Darkseid. Though I might be mistakenI'm tryna upgrade them to High 3A
High 3A New 52 Doomsday + Other High 3A Heralds Upgrade For New 52 Heralds
Doomsday broke the phantom zone with his punches , destabilizing the the entire zone (batman/superman 2013 issue 11). The cover of the issue literally says new 52 so this should scale to new 52 doomsday This would be a high 3A feat because the phantom zone is already accepted on this site as an...vsbattles.com
Although my last reply to that thread was a plan to rewrite the entire thing cuz I found the supes punching god brainiac thing
And how god of strength supes can damage anti monitor, then wonder woman being able to restrain god of strength superman
So yes, there's higher scaling than just 4B for new 52
- 260
- 70
This version of Mobius has anti life inside of him
2 pages before supes punched him is an accepted scaling for his anti life key
- 719
- 468
By that logic, Lex Luthor, the Green Lanterns, and even the God of Strength version of Superman could reasonably scale to Anti-Life Mobius to a certain degree, which could potentially justify an upgrade for them
If I remember correctly, Lex Luthor stated that Superman was holding back while fighting Mobius
- 184
- 194
The highest possible interpretation of New 52 Superman is High-3A. Anything higher either uses outliers or is misrepresenting a feat. I made an argument for 2A New-52 Superman for fighting with He-Man (but ultimately being inferior. He-Man does kill him after all and is later resurrected) but Antvasima was strongly opposed to this due to it being a crossover. I explained the reasons as to why this Crossover was different from others as there are numerous reasons, but I don’t think he ever looked them over. Perhaps in the future I will revisit the subject again, but the reality is New-52 Superman is much much weaker than his Post-Crisis counterpart.
- 184
- 194
By the end of Post-Crisis era, Hal Jordan with raw willpower is firmly above even the Emotional Entities. It is not until the Rebirth era where things get really insane. In The Green Lantern: Season 2 he performs by far his greatest ever feat, a common Grant Morrison W.
At the moment I have mostly compiled all of his good stuff already: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Hal_Jordan_Profile
- 177,706
- 90,765
It would be extremely inappropriate and unreliable to scale Superman from a crossover with another verse that also only involved the alternate Injustice version of Superman, and as such also likely should have no bearing on regular canon.
- 177,706
- 90,765
Regardless, each verse should be rated based on its own feats, not be scaled from crossovers where the characters are almost constantly rescaled to fit with each other for narrative reasons.
- 227
- 74
All my tasks are done. I can finally off, I hope promptedelephant uses my revised abilities when he starts upgrading Superboy Prime
- 184
- 194
I am not that invested in upgrading New-52 Superman; however, before dropping the subject I am going to make some comments on the issue.It would be extremely inappropriate and unreliable to scale Superman from a crossover with another verse that also only involved the alternate Injustice version of Superman, and as such also likely should have no bearing on regular canon.
Firstly, the Injustice Versus Masters of the Universe you mention is the wrong crossover. (As a side point there are multiple versions of the Injustice universe existing within the multiverses of The Divine Continuum: the original video game version which has its own supporting / backup comics, the recent version in the mainstream multiverse that Jon Kent encountered, and the version from Injustice Versus Masters of the Universe which is a variant of Injustice Superman where the bad ending occurs from the end of the Injustice 2 video game.)
Back to the main point regarding the usage of this crossover. The reason why I have included He-Man information as evidence for 2A New-52 Superman / herald characters is multifold.
Firstly, Masters of the Universe was licensed for publication by DC at the time. DC was publishing other Masters of the Universe comics at the same time besides the crossover comic. It is not as if the crossover was occurring between two separate publishers like Dark Horse or Marvel for example.
Secondly, and more importantly, because the events of the DC cross over DIRECTLY impact and are CANON to the corresponding Masters of the Universe comic that was being published by DC at the same time: He-Man Eternity War. In issue #5 of Eternity War, Skeletor directly states how his banishment into Hypertime by John Constantine has radically altered his outlook on reality and has driven him to insanity. Later in the Eternity War series this is shown as he is driven to end everything since he saw in Hypertime, while banished there, that there is NO reality in which he ever wins as such he decides if he cannot win then neither can anyone else. This is a fundamental plot point to the entire He-Man Eternity War comic series. There was even a text note in one of the He-Man Eternity War comics to tell readers to check out the crossover so they Ould have more context for the story.
Thirdly, while New 52 Superman and other New 52 characters do not show the same level of feats as their Post-Crisis versions, they really should not be AS far behind from them as they are currently depicted on this wiki. It is worth mentioning that this is most likely simply a result of the New-52 only lasting from 2011 to 2016 as such the writers did not have much time to provide him with any super high tier feats. When Doctor Manhattan removed 10 years of history and erased the Justice Society of America this results in New-Earth / Earth-0 (The Post-Crisis reality) becoming Prime-Earth creating the New-52. Removing 10 years of history should not necessarily prevent Superman from being 2A at maximum in the New-52. It is important to remember that Prime-Earth IS New-Earth but with the time manipulations of Doctor Manhattan. A counter argument would be that Superman in the New-52 simply has not had time to grow into 2A power levels the way he did in Post-Crisis, but I think, at the very least, it should be considered. This can be seen that even Post-Crisis Superman (Pre-Eradicator Absorption) was capable of 2A feats as such it is logical that New-52 Superman is capable of the same thing (at the moment Post-Crisis Superman and many other previously 2A characters were incorrectly changed to low-1C; however, Post-Crisis Superman like most of the previous 2As should not have been amongst those changed so he will be returning to 2A. This is something I will address in my up coming Heralds and low level cosmic beings revision.) I would suggest putting New-52 Superman's statistics as (Varies, usually 4B up to 2A.) This provides a logical continuity of power between the eras of Superman from Post-Crisis to New-52 continuing into Rebirth.
My last point is on crossover in general, I agree that crossovers should almost never be used; however, like with most things there are exceptions and I think there is plenty of evidence here to show that this is one of them. Another example of the events of a crossover being canon to a character is Krona, who at the end of JLA/Avengers ends up inside a Cosmic Egg, this plot line DIRECTLY carries over into the story of Trinity Volume 1.
