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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Antvasima said:
@PromptedElephant641 @Firestorm808

What do you think? 🙏
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As I stated in that thread, there are arguments to be made; however, the ones being used were not the proper ones.

It has long been known that the main Numbered / Labeled / Designated Earths of the multiverse contain their own alternate timelines as well as quantum offshoot universes. Much like how each universe in Marvel is its own multiverse of sorts. The same is applicable here (though at a much lower scale without the 1A universe nonsense that Marvel has.)

You can re-open it but whatever is decided from it is just going to have to be fixed in the future when I get to my revision.

Ultimately: there are uncountably infinite Numbered / Labeled / Designated Earths in the multiverse. Each of these Earths has its own timeline. A line of any size has a number of points equivalent to the set of all real numbers. At each of those points an infinite number of timelines is made, for each of these offshoot timelines an infinite number of timelines is made, this process goes onward infinitely. 2^Aleph0 is equivalent to the set of all real numbers, where as this situation is described by Aleph0^Aleph0 which of course is also equal to the set of all real numbers. As such the total number of timelines and quantum offshoot universes produced by a Labeled Earth is equivalent to a 6D structure with a 5D quantity produced at each point in the timeline. Therefore the multiverse is 7D for having an uncountably infinite number of Labeled Earths that are 6D in their totality.

The people who ACTUALLY scale to this is very limited and would not affect Heralds like Superman and such at all.
 
Okay, but is there really any point to reopen that thread in that case? 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Okay, but is there really any point to reopen that thread in that case? 🙏
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Just checked thread, I get what's argument but it is presented super badly and prob without good evidence. It would be better if it stayed closed. It is obvious OP is using another ppl arguments without understanding it fully. But way he does it, proves his lack of experience. I trust that topic to @PromptedElephant641 or some of my friends who are actually knowledgeable in DC if they want to revisit topic in near future

I am full agreement with you btw
 
Hecky2222 said:
Just checked thread, I get what's argument but it is presented super badly and prob without good evidence. It would be better if it stayed closed. It is obvious OP is using another ppl arguments without understanding it fully. But way he does it, proves his lack of experience. I trust that topic to @PromptedElephant641 or some of my friends who are actually knowledgeable in DC if they want to revisit topic in near future

I am full agreement with you btw
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Okay. Unless Firestorm808 objects, I think that it should stay closed in that case. 🙏
 
Bimgus8010 said:
Are we seriously adding

On earth he's x tier
In space he's x tier
When not holding back, he's x tier
With raw willpower, he's x tier
At peak, he's x tier

Like good lord, why are we adding unnecessary amounts of tiers to each key🥲


Also, some feats don't work like this one which I think I mentioned which you dodged about spectre supposedly having a fair fight with Hal but when you look at the link, it's once again not the case as the spectre couldn't actually hurt Hal since rules


I also touched on willworld which you once again dodged
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Demattis should right this
 

I think i found biggest darkseid simp on the planet
He think eclipso is the original great darkess and he became that using darksied crystal. Entire pariah event was vandal salvage playing mind tricks using new great darkness.
 
Bros cosmology follows something like this
cas> mandrakk>overvoid> Darkseid > rest of all dc combined
maybe darkseid above overvoid idk
 
Flopfleee786 said:
I asked this before but I still don’t understand. I’m assuming this lucifer is the vertigo lucifer but vertigo cosmology is different to the normal dc cosmology. Existence was made by Michael, lucifer and Gabriel in vertigo yet multiverses are made by the hands in dc. How do the two cosmologies reconcile?
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1: Verito is a part of DC’s cosmology, so there isn’t a separation between those two things. The same Lucifer you see in stories under the Vertigo label are taking place in the same setting where Batman and Superman run around beating up criminals, just in different realms. The part of the DC multiverse Lucifer lives in and tends to hang around is the Sphere of Gods or whatever other random magical realm the narrative takes him to. The heroes on the other hand usually reside in earth, which is on a different and lesser level of reality.

2: Not really. In DC there is various creation myths, corresponding to what Gods you worship. Meaning if you worship Yahweh, then yes the material world was made via The Presence and the Archangels, and when you die you’d pass on to the interpretation of the afterlife that corresponds to that religion, ie heaven and hell. However, If you worship different deities, let’s say the Greek pantheon, then the material world was created by them, and when you die you’d end up in their version of heaven and hell, ie the Elysian Fields and Hades/the Underworld.

Note: No beings in the Sphere of Gods are responsible for truly making all existence, as the Gods are not the supreme beings in DC universe. They are purely abstract ideas personified and derived from the archetypes of the Collective Unconscious. And there is many domains and realms that transcend them in the cosmology. Some people think they’re the end all be all but that’s just objectively not true. They’re just the most relevant cosmic domain to Earth and it’s superheroes.
 
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Flopfleee786 said:
I asked this before but I still don’t understand. I’m assuming this lucifer is the vertigo lucifer but vertigo cosmology is different to the normal dc cosmology. Existence was made by Michael, lucifer and Gabriel in vertigo yet multiverses are made by the hands in dc. How do the two cosmologies reconcile?
Click to expand...
The DC Multiverse is fundamentally based on belief. Numerous mythological cultures and traditions coexist, each with its own gods, cosmology, and account of creation. These traditions emerge from the Collective Unconscious, where the thoughts, dreams, and beliefs of sentient beings shape and sustain them. Thus, each mythology contains a grain of truth, not in contradiction with the others, but as a different perspective on the same truth. For example, Hindu traditions consider Brahma to be the origin of existence, while Christian traditions attribute creation to Yahweh. Although these figures may seem distinct, they can be understood as different cultural expressions of the same ultimate source. Likewise, Michael Demiurgos is interpreted as Kali within Hindu belief, while Lucifer's rebellion is reflected across history, with every war serving as a shade or a reflection of that original conflict.

Furthermore, Scott Snyder hinted in an interview with Imaginary Axis that the creation of Yahweh with Lucifer and Michael occurred after Perpetua's imprisonment in the Source Wall, which is confirmed by Mark Waid's New History of the DC Universe. The JLA scans I shared previously add more evidence and reaffirm that God is perceived differently across cultures. Vertigo is thus compatible with the mainstream DC continuity.
 
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Elizio33 said:
The DC Multiverse is fundamentally based on belief. Numerous mythological cultures and traditions coexist, each with its own gods, cosmology, and account of creation. These traditions emerge from the Collective Unconscious, where the thoughts, dreams, and beliefs of sentient beings shape and sustain them. Thus, each mythology contains a grain of truth, not in contradiction with the others, but as a different perspective on the same truth. For example, Hindu traditions consider Brahma to be the origin of existence, while Christian traditions attribute creation to Yahweh. Although these figures may seem distinct, they can be understood as different cultural expressions of the same ultimate source. Likewise, Michael Demiurgos is interpreted as Kali within Hindu belief, while Lucifer's rebellion is reflected across history, with every war serving as a shade or a reflection of that original conflict.

Furthermore, Scott Snyder hinted in an interview with Imaginary Axis that the creation of Yahweh with Lucifer and Michael occurred after Perpetua's imprisonment in the Source Wall, which is confirmed by Mark Waid's New History of the DC Universe. The JLA scans I shared previously add more evidence and reaffirm that God is perceived differently across cultures. Vertigo is thus compatible with the mainstream DC continuity.
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One could make the assumption that Yahweh made the next iteration of Creation after Perpetua was imprisoned in The Source Wall and it would not affect anything in canon at all. It is also the only real logical explanation that can be made to fit both stories together. This goes along perfectly with what is stated in The New History of the DC Universe Vol1 #1. The events of Perpetua making Creation as well as being banished are described on the second page. Lucifer and the war in Heaven stuff is not discussed until the third page after Perpetua has already been imprisoned.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
One could make the assumption that Yahweh made the next iteration of Creation after Perpetua was imprisoned in The Source Wall and it would not affect anything in canon at all. It is also the only real logical explanation that can be made to fit both stories together. This goes along perfectly with what is stated in The New History of the DC Universe Vol1 #1. The events of Perpetua making Creation as well as being banished are described on the second page. Lucifer and the war in Heaven stuff is not discussed until the third page.
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Yep.

In the same video with Imaginary Axis, Scott Snyder made an interesting statement: the force The Hands called upon to recreate the Multiverse was The Presence.
 
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Regarding the Endless, some elements of the Vertigo stories suggest they predate the Big Bang, while The New History of the DC Universe asserts they originated from it. Both versions could be true, insofar as their current forms and functions became relevant with the birth of the cosmos, while their true essence remains eternal principles that predate the Big Bang itself and exist independently of any universe. In this way, the two versions are compatible.
 
Elizio33 said:
Regarding the Endless, some elements of the Vertigo stories suggest they predate the Big Bang, while The New History of the DC Universe asserts they originated from it. Both versions could be true, insofar as their current forms and functions became relevant with the birth of the cosmos, while their true essence remains eternal principles that predate the Big Bang itself and exist independently of any universe. In this way, the two versions are compatible.
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The version of The Endless inside of Perpetua’s Creation emerge at the moment of creation. Their true form permeates the Greater Omniverse itself. Whenever a Creation is made by a Hand, a manifestation of the Endless comes into being within that Creation simultaneously. The true forms of The Endless, as omnipresent forces of The Greater Omniverse, should be transcendent to even The Hands who are mere denizens of said realm.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
The version of The Endless inside of Perpetua’s Creation emerge at the moment of creation. Their true form permeates the Greater Omniverse itself. Whenever a Creation is made by a Hand, a manifestation of the Endless comes into being within that Creation simultaneously. The true forms of The Endless, as omnipresent forces of The Greater Omniverse, should be transcendent to even The Hands who are mere denizens of said realm.
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Yes.
 
Xearesay said:
Note: No beings in the Sphere of Gods are responsible for truly making all existence, as the Gods are not the supreme beings in DC universe. They are purely abstract ideas personified and derived from the archetypes of the Collective Unconscious. And there is many domains and realms that transcend them in the cosmology. Some people think they’re the end all be all but that’s just objectively not true. They’re just the most relevant cosmic domain to Earth and it’s superheroes.
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I dont think thats how it work Perpetua created entirty of current DC creation as we know it.
And she was referred as the hand of the presence(yes true presence directly not presence or source formed inside the creation).
Synder said lucifer creation came after Perpetua. And there are multiple creation in the overvoid as they all amount to dirt.

Also perpetua creation said last for 20billion years and the rise and fall of creation lucifer saw from outside was also 20billion year. When wally ran against death to end of time and everything end at around 20billion years.
 
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AcidSilver said:
That final issue of Absolute Martian Manhunter brought me to tears man. It's so damn good. I'm so glad that it didn't end up being a 6 issue mini like it was originally planned to be.
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The writer, Deniz Camp, has done great work with that series. I hope that he will win an Eisner award for it. 🙏
 
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Elizio33 said:
Regarding the Endless, some elements of the Vertigo stories suggest they predate the Big Bang, while The New History of the DC Universe asserts they originated from it. Both versions could be true, insofar as their current forms and functions became relevant with the birth of the cosmos, while their true essence remains eternal principles that predate the Big Bang itself and exist independently of any universe. In this way, the two versions are compatible.
Click to expand...
I thought the Endless who existed before Creation were their true forms, and that the Endless who came into existence after Creation are merely one aspect or manifestation of the Endless' true forms
 
Hayato5652 said:
I thought the Endless who existed before Creation were their true forms, and that the Endless who came into existence after Creation are merely one aspect or manifestation of the Endless' true forms
Click to expand...
Refer to my comment. This was already discussed.
PromptedElephant641 said:
The version of The Endless inside of Perpetua’s Creation emerge at the moment of creation. Their true form permeates the Greater Omniverse itself. Whenever a Creation is made by a Hand, a manifestation of the Endless comes into being within that Creation simultaneously. The true forms of The Endless, as omnipresent forces of The Greater Omniverse, should be transcendent to even The Hands who are mere denizens of said realm.
Click to expand...
 
AcidSilver said:
That final issue of Absolute Martian Manhunter brought me to tears man. It's so damn good. I'm so glad that it didn't end up being a 6 issue mini like it was originally planned to be.
Click to expand...
What did other members here think about it? I obviously really liked it. 🙏
 
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