General of The Forerunners vs The Second coming of The Oni God [Halo VS Re:Zero] 0-0-0

[VersusJunkie54]

The Didact Vs Ram.

Both are in character and willing to kill.

Ram is in her 5-C key with 5 shackles released, The Didact is in his 5-C key and is piloting a War Sphinx

Speed is equalized

The battle takes place on The Ark/ Installation 00.

Starting distance is 5000 meters.

Ram's Stats

135 Exatons

Class T Lifting Strength

The Didact's Stats

Class P Lifting Strength

326 Exatons


The Didact's Advantages:

• 2.41 X higher AP & Durability
• Transmutation via The Composer
• Teleportation & Dimensional travel via Slipspace
• Unrestricted Fight
• Higher ability versatility
• Vastly higher range
• Vastly higher lifting strength
• Vastly higher intelligence and combat experience
• Likely Higher stamina & pain tolerance

Ram's Advantages:

• Possibly higher willpower
• Is sane unlike The Didact
• Superior Regeneration
• Limited durability negation
• Can possibly run out of the Composer's range as it takes a few seconds to charge
• Instinctive Action, Attack reflection, and damage reduction

The Didact's Wincons:
BFR into Slipspace
Upload Ram to The Domain via The Composer
Death via conventional AP

Ram's Wincons:
Death via conventional AP
Destroying The Didact's War Sphynx.

Who wins and why?

The General: 0

The Oni: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Huesito88]

Why are you listing the advantages and disadvantages OP?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Why are you listing the advantages and disadvantages OP?

I believe it will make it easier for people to decide who they think wins up front, and I was inspired by the detail of another thread. Not everyone bothers to click on the profile links after all.

 

[Deceived3596]

Data compression GG?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Data compression GG?

The Composer does not fire instantly, it takes like 5-6 seconds to charge. That's more than enough time for Ram to flee with her travel speed.

 

[Deceived3596]

The Composer does not fire instantly, it takes like 5-6 seconds to charge. That's more than enough time for Ram to flee with her travel speed.

Nu uh

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Nu uh

As the OP, I can't really take a side in the debate, but MHS+ travel speed is more than enough to traverse 200 kilometers in 5-6 seconds.

 

[Deceived3596]

As the OP, I can't really take a side in the debate, but MHS+ travel speed is more than enough to traverse 200 kilometers in 5-6 seconds.

It was a joke comment

I'll take a more serious look at the debate later.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

It was a joke comment

I'll take a more serious look at the debate later.

Ooof Poe's law.

 

[Deceived3596]

I think an argument can be made that, with The Didact's intelligence, he would pretty quickly figure out some of Ram's advantages, such as her movement speed and sensory abilities, and counteract them by situating his Composer and War Sphinx outside of Ram's physical perception and attack her from range, which, depending on the distance of both things, would be outside of her effective range from what I see.

I'm also interested in if Ram would even instinctually consider the Composer's effect as "dangerous" since it isn't a conventional attack in any sense, it's just a beam that transmutates physical objects into digital lifeforms. I saw in the scan used for her profile that it seemingly worked against an illusion, but I have no idea if we could conflate these two as being similar enough for that to have really any meaning here.

I'll remain neutral until further clarification is given by Re:Zero supporters.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I think an argument can be made that, with The Didact's intelligence, he would pretty quickly figure out some of Ram's advantages, such as her movement speed and sensory abilities, and counteract them by situating his Composer and War Sphinx outside of Ram's physical perception and attack her from range, which, depending on the distance of both things, would be outside of her effective range from what I see.

I'm also interested in if Ram would even instinctually consider the Composer's effect as "dangerous" since it isn't a conventional attack in any sense, it's just a beam that transmutates physical objects into digital lifeforms. I saw in the scan used for her profile that it seemingly worked against an illusion, but I have no idea if we could conflate these two as being similar enough for that to have really any meaning here.

I'll remain neutral until further clarification is given by Re:Zero supporters

@SatellaTheWoE Would you have anything to comment on this thread?

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Bump

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

@SatellaTheWoE Would you have anything to comment on this thread?

i got no pings for this but anyways, here are the details:

Okay so first of all, Ram is way better in combat skill here. Idk how you peeps came to the conclusion that she was worse off
She can instantly copy anything that he does and her attacks can one shot people stronger than her
She can also read her opponent better than if she was reading their mind and would know what shenanigans he is upto before he himself becomes fully aware of it
Ley Batenkaitos can also teleport and Emilia who is VASTLY inferior to Ram in skill could easily deal with it
i did also like to know how he plans on hitting her because she can dodge invisible AoE attacks in a room with no space, upscales from Elsa, against who no attack will ever work twice even if its in large quantities/danmaku etc
She can also dodge attacks she cant even percieve via reading her opponents intentions

 

[VersusJunkie54]

i got no pings for this but anyways, here are the details:

Okay so first of all, Ram is way better in combat skill here. Idk how you peeps came to the conclusion that she was worse off

I will chalk this up to ignorance of Halo specifically, but The Didact is the military commander of the Forerunners, a Warrior-Servant who has up to ten thousand years of combat experience against Humans, and The Flood. Ram is so outmatched in this category it's not even funny.

She can instantly copy anything that he does and her attacks can one shot people stronger than her

How is she going to copy Constraint fields, Slipspace portals, or The Composer?

She can also read her opponent better than if she was reading their mind and would know what shenanigans he is upto before he himself becomes fully aware of it

I will need some sort of citation for this. Something vastly technologically advanced like the War Sphinx/Didact is an outside context problem for Ram, she won't know what she is looking at.

Ley Batenkaitos can also teleport and Emilia who is VASTLY inferior to Ram in skill could easily deal with it
i did also like to know how he plans on hitting her because she can dodge invisible AoE attacks in a room with
no space, upscales from Elsa, against who no attack will ever work twice even if its in large quantities/danmaku etc
She can also dodge attacks she cant even percieve via reading her opponents intentions

Constraint Fields + Class P lifting Strength for one. The Didact can also fly unrestricted which is a huge advantage.

You are also kind of using a No-Limits fallacy here.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I will chalk this up to ignorance of Halo specifically, but The Didact is the military commander of the Forerunners, a Warrior-Servant who has up to ten thousand years of combat experience against Humans, and The Flood. Ram is so outmatched in this category it's not even funny.

I think this sort of thinking actually comes from ignorance of how skill scaling actually works.
The amount of time doesn't matter as it is not scalable to the skill at all
We only take feats of combat skill
Ram can read her opponent better than if she was reading their minds with her clairvoyance, can react to blitzing attacks just via reading her opponents intentions and can make herself unreadable to a skill god with LAYERS of ESP

How is she going to copy Constraint fields, Slipspace portals, or The Composer?

Tell me what they can do

I will need some sort of citation for this. Something vastly technologically advanced like the War Sphinx/Didact is an outside context problem for Ram, she won't know what she is looking at.

authorities are far more complex and she could easily copy them
For eg, Cor Leonis is an abstract link between people's Od (a more complex equivalent form of a soul) which can be used to transfer the information and burden from one person to another
She copied it after barely sensing it with her synesthesia

Constraint Fields + Class P lifting Strength for one. The Didact can also fly unrestricted which is a huge advantage.

Oh yeah forgot to mention this but she can spawn in wind blades anywhere she wants which have layered invisibility and her wind attacks can one shot opponents hundreds of times stronger than her

You are also kind of using a No-Limits fallacy here.

Where exactly did I use a NLF?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I think this sort of thinking actually comes from ignorance of how skill scaling actually works.
The amount of time doesn't matter as it is not scalable to the skill at all
We only take feats of combat skill
Ram can read her opponent better than if she was reading their minds with her clairvoyance, can react to blitzing attacks just via reading her opponents intentions and can make herself unreadable to a skill god with LAYERS of ESP

This isn't complicated. A general who has fought a constant war for literally thousands of years is bound to have vastly higher skill than an 18 year old, especially an 18 year old who is less skilled than Spartan-II's who The Didact vastly eclipses. I can say with utmost confidence Ram does not have more combat experience, or skill than a Spartan-II, and certainly not a Warrior-Servant.

Tell me what they can do

The fact that you are even asking this proves you didn't bother to read the profile. The Composer Transmutes/Virtualizes beings into data, and it can do this to at least millions of people at a time, and uploading them to The Domain, the same place where The consciousnesses The Flood consumes go. Constraint Fields is telekinesis, and The Didact's opening move is to restrain people. The War Sphynx can enter slipspace, or send Ram into it.

authorities are far more complex and she could easily copy them
For eg, Cor Leonis is an abstract link between people's Od (a more complex equivalent form of a soul) which can be used to transfer the information and burden from one person to another
She copied it after barely sensing it with her synesthesia

What? Ram has never copied Authorities. Nor have I ever heard about that being a thing in Re:Zero. It sounds like you just made this up. Cor Leonis is one of Subaru's Authorities. How could copying them even be possible in Re:Zero? They are unique to their wielder alone, and different for whoever holds that Witch factor.

Also Ram certainly cannot copy The Composer, Constraint Fields, or Slipspace. How did you even arrive at this claim? Even if true, copying magical abilities /=/ copying purely technological ones.

Oh yeah forgot to mention this but she can spawn in wind blades anywhere she wants which have layered invisibility and her wind attacks can one shot opponents hundreds of times stronger than her

This is blatant wank and you know it. It is not recorded on her profile, nor has it ever been shown to "one shot people hundreds of times stronger than her."

Where exactly did I use a NLF?

"upscales from Elsa, against who no attack will ever work twice even if its in large quantities/danmaku etc
She can also dodge attacks she cant even perceive via reading her opponents intentions"

I am pretty sure that Elsa could do exactly squat against the Composer or Constraint fields for instance regardless of how many times she faces it.

 

[Zabazab]

This isn't complicated. A general who has fought a constant war for literally thousands of years is bound to have vastly higher skill than an 18 year old, especially an 18 year old who is less skilled than Spartan-II's who The Didact vastly eclipses. I can say with utmost confidence Ram does not have more combat experience, or skill than a Spartan-II, and certainly not a Warrior-Servant.

Combat experience is a ridiculously terrible measuring stick and I will not rest until nobody ever brings it up as a significant showcase of skill.

It is commonly known as Skill Without Substance, it's like arguing AP based on kill count. Those tens of thousands of years of combat mean NOTHING without the context of the skill of those being fought against. Skill is what makes combat experience impressive, not the other way around.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Combat experience is a ridiculously terrible measuring stick and I will not rest until nobody ever brings it up as a significant showcase of skill.

It is commonly known as Skill Without Substance, it's like arguing AP based on kill count. Those tens of thousands of years of combat mean NOTHING without the context of the skill of those being fought against. Skill is what makes combat experience impressive, not the other way around.

Thousands of years of constant combat against the ancient Humans and The Flood means "Nothing"?. That's fine if you want to think that, but it is just flat out incorrect and you are making an entirely irrelevant comparison to boot.

Spartan-II's alone outskill Ram who The Didact is laughably superior to. Why intervene if you don't even know the context behind the character's experience?

 

[Zabazab]

Thousands of years of constant combat against the ancient Humans and The Flood means "Nothing"?

Correct. Put it in context or it's just fluff, hype even.

Spartan-II's alone outskill Ram who The Didact is laughably superior to. Why intervene if you don't even know the context behind the character's experience?

Put this into context for me then instead of just saying the conclusion you have made. Experience is not in anyway impressive by itself. The most skilled character in Ram's verse has 3 months of combat experience.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Correct. Put it in context or it's just fluff, hype even.

I will make this simple for you. The Didact's primary opponent for thousands of years was The Flood, commanded by The Gravemind/The Primordial who during the height of the Flood-Forerunner war consumed the combined intellect of trillions upon trillions of people from civilians to soldiers. The Didact and his Prometheans could fight and win victories against The Flood on multiple occasions. The Didact also endured a constant mental and logic assault from The Gravemind directly for years and was able to go back to waging war against The Flood.

This is just some crappy debate bro tactic on your part honesty.

Put this into context for me then instead of just saying the conclusion you have made. Experience is not in anyway impressive by itself. The most skilled character in Ram's verse has 3 months of combat experience.

Spartan II's in Halo are super soldiers trained from the age of six. Each is skilled enough to take on literal armies of physically comparable, and outright superior opponents and could do so from as young as the age of 15. Spartans are proficient in all manner of UNSC military tactics and have fought countless Covenant foes who trained and fought their entire lives. Spartans can make short work of Elites, especially Elite Zealots who come from a hardcore warrior culture.

And The Didact is laughably above this.

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't even understand why we're discussing personal skill in terms of swordsmanship when The Didact isn't physically fighting Rem, he's piloting a ship. His skill with his hands or weaponry, outside of his ship, is completely irrelevant. The stuff that @VersusJunkie54 is bringing up is actually important to bring up for Didact's skill level since his wincons come from structures outside of his own physical might, and are ones that require intellectual planning to use effectively - which, if he's a General of a highly credentialed civilization of space-faring people, who have fought against the worst the series has and is shown to win against them several times, it stands to reason he's a pretty intelligent and experienced guy that would be, by virtue of his time fighting, have more applicable experience compared to Rem when it comes this form of combat.

So unless it pertains to this specific form of combat, discussing swordsmanship or martial arts is missing the point of comparison here.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I don't even understand why we're discussing personal skill in terms of swordsmanship when The Didact isn't physically fighting Rem, he's piloting a ship. His skill with his hands or weaponry, outside of his ship, is completely irrelevant. The stuff that @VersusJunkie54 is bringing up is actually important to bring up for Didact's skill level since his wincons mostly come from structures outside of his own physical might, and are ones that require intellectual planning to use effectively - which, if he's a General of a highly credentialed civilization of space-faring people, who have fought against the worst the series has, it stands to reason he's a pretty intelligent and experienced guy that would be, by virtue of his time fighting, have more applicable experience compared to Rem in when it comes this form of combat.

So unless it pertains to this specific form of combat, discussing swordsmanship or martial arts is missing the point of comparison here.

Also, The Primordial/Gravemind needed to subject The Didact to years of The Logic Plauge in order to corrupt him, whereas Cortana was close to breaking in just 38 days. That alone is extremely telling. Mendicant Bias, the Forerunners' most formidable Ancilla resisted it for 43 years or so.

Resistance to the Logic Plague = One's Intelligence as I recall.

 

[Zabazab]

The Didact's primary opponent for thousands of years was The Flood, commanded by The Gravemind/The Primordial who during the height of the Flood-Forerunner war consumed the combined intellect of trillions upon trillions of people from civilians to soldiers. The Didact and his Prometheans could fight and win victories against The Flood on multiple occasions. The Didact also endured a constant mental and logic assault from The Gravemind directly for years and was able to go back to waging war against The Flood.

The most impressive bit is combining trillions of minds but it still doesn't exactly speak to skill given there's no tangible feat of skill described.

Spartan II's in Halo are super soldiers trained from the age of six. Each is skilled enough to take on literal armies of physically comparable, and outright superior opponents and could do so from as young as the age of 15. Spartans are proficient in all manner of UNSC military tactics and have fought countless Covenant foes who trained and fought their entire lives. Spartans can make short work of Elites, especially Elite Zealots who come from a hardcore warrior culture.

Finally a hint of actual feats described, fighting armies of superior fighters is decent, but it still isn't much at all.

The Didact isn't physically fighting Ram, he's piloting a ship.

Then why was a comparison of skill even made! Ram clearly wipes the floor with them in cqc, and she also Doesn't Know What Ships Are. Like not even normal ships, they don't exist in her universe. The comparison is pointless and our time is wasted!

This is just some crappy debate bro tactic on your part honesty.

I am not interested in debating the match, I just wanted to explain why "Combat Experience" is the last thing that should ever be brought up in a skill debate. It's meaningless slop even more egrigious than regular skillslop.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wait so Ram is fighting a flying ship?

What stops her from blowing that shit apart with her wind magic while trapping it with wind jail??

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So. Where's Rem?

Ram's 6-B, possibly 5-C self comes with downside that her twin sister Rem, or rather the comatose girl that acts as her optional equipment, is the reason why she can access this power in the first place without dying on the spot and she has to be somewhere around the area for Ram to keep this power.

The Didact seems to be the type of person to kill unconscious people on the spot and has massive AoE from the looks of this thread. So if uses that as a first move, Rem likely dies or smth.

IMO, if Ram has such a massive skill advantage, then, Rem should be out in the open and not placed in a 1-A Bow that The Didact can't break /jk

 

[VersusJunkie54]

The most impressive bit is combining trillions of minds but it still doesn't exactly speak to skill given there's no tangible feat of skill described.


Finally a hint of actual feats described, fighting armies of superior fighters is decent, but it still isn't much at all.


Then why was a comparison of skill even made! Ram clearly wipes the floor with them in cqc, and she also Doesn't Know What Ships Are. Like not even normal ships, they don't exist in her universe. The comparison is pointless and our time is wasted!


I am not interested in debating the match, I just wanted to explain why "Combat Experience" is the last thing that should ever be brought up in a skill debate. It's meaningless slop even more egrigious than regular skillslop.

So you admit that you don't actually know what you are talking about and intervened for no reason? What you think is irrelevant, The Didact is vastly superior in skill based on context alone.

Wait so Ram is fighting a flying ship?

What stops her from blowing that shit apart with her wind magic while trapping it with wind jail??

You only realize this now? You really didn't look at The Didact's profile at all, I can tell.

As for what is stopping her? I don't know? Teleportation? Unrestricted Flight, Range Advantage, Constraint Fields, Slipspace travel, Over 2 x AP advantage?

Ram's 6-B, possibly 5-C self comes with downside that her twin sister Rem, or rather the comatose girl that acts as her optional equipment, is the reason why she can access this power in the first place without dying on the spot and she has to be somewhere around the area for Ram to keep this power.

To be honest this is an oversight on my part, I neglected to read into Ram's stamina disadvantage which is...significant. So I think I just accidentally created a stomp match. in The Didact's favor.

And no, Ram does not have a skill advantage. The Re:Zero supporters are arguing from Incredulity, and just making things up.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It happens.

Honestly, I would wager Ram is superior in skill in H2H and magic stuff... Which doesn't really matter since A. Didact isn't on the ground (and doesn't use magic whatsoever), B. Ram literally has no concept of what Didact is riding due to being apart of a medieval isekai world so her usual tactics against humanoid opps won't really fly here and C. Rem has no way to defend herself (and Didact can likely snipe her via sheer AoE)... other then Ram picking her up and trying to do some hit-and-run shit against Didact as silly as it sounds, lol.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

It happens.

Honestly, I would wager Ram is superior in skill in H2H and magic stuff... Which doesn't really matter since A. Didact isn't on the ground (and doesn't use magic whatsoever), B. Ram literally has no concept of what Didact is riding due to being apart of a medieval isekai world so her usual tactics against humanoid opps won't really fly here and C. Rem has no way to defend herself (and Didact can likely snipe her via sheer AoE)... other then Ram picking her up and trying to do some hit-and-run shit against Didact as silly as it sounds, lol.

Yeah I was too eager to make a Halo vs Re:Zero thread without more carefully considering if it can even happen. If Ram really requires Rem to use her 5-C key for probably mere minutes at most, she probably has practically no chance at victory.

I suppose any lurking staff can close the thread, or I will go ask one to do so.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah I was too eager to make a Halo vs Re:Zero thread without more carefully considering if it can even happen. If Ram really requires Rem to use her 5-C key for probably mere minutes at most, she probably has practically no chance at victory.

I suppose any lurking staff can close the thread, or I will go ask one to do so.

make a tier 6C cecilus vs Halo match next
:3

 

[VersusJunkie54]

make a tier 6C cecilus vs Halo match next
:3

Composer gg, Flood Super Cell gg, Logic Plague gg.

After Halo revisions are complete, I have a strange idea for a more...unconventional vs matchup. If The Gravemind/Primordial can persuade one of the Witches to join The Flood like it did to Mendicant Bias.

 

[Deceived3596]

Precursors are 1-A trust me.