Gill vs Kenshiro

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

The leader of an evil group and a genetically altered human...


A trained deadly Martial Artist

Both opponents are aware of each other's attacks and martial arts so no holding back (Gill vs Kenshiro) The one thing left unknown is their trump cards Ken's Museo and Gill's soul resurrection and Ken's precog and his trump card Seraphic Wings. The fighters know the effects of their moves e.g. Kens cellular destruction and Gill's Cryo and Pyro Kenesis
Edit: Speed is equalized.

Who wins?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Ahhh I think you got the wrong link for both of them.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

That should be fixed now.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Yeah it is fixed, but I probably will not vote until more input for this as I literally have no clue on how this goes.

Edit: On second thought Kenshiro does has his chances of winning.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Just added more description.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Alright, but I need someone who is a expert on Street Fighter and Kenshiro here.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Alright before I start, when you say aware of each other's attacks and martial art. How much does the other know. Like does gill know the existence of kens ultimate move, and is aware of the effects of kens attack, and does Ken know gills moves and how he can resurrect?


Ps: if you want to make this fight fair and not a stomp, equalize speed.

Edit: never mind I saw the op write they don't know their trump cards.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Alright before I start, when you say aware of each other's attacks and martial art. How much does the other know. Like does gill know the existence of kens ultimate move, and is aware of the effects of kens attack, and does Ken know gills moves and how he can resurrect?

Ps: if you want to make this fight fair and not a stomp, equalize speed.

Each fighter knows the way each other fight entirely and they know all of their attacks except their trump cards Gill will not know Ken's best move until he uses it and Ken would not know about Gill's resurrection and best move.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

So, since this is a scenario where both are aware of each other's moves. Here's what I believe is most likely to happen.

Because of kens incredible ability to perfectly memorize and counter any martial art once, gill will have the hardest time trying to hit Ken at all or even try to counter him. Once Kenshiro has fought or seen how an opponent fights or how their style works, he literally creates new counter moves for that opponent (in every fight he had to face the same opponent twice, he dominates them because he knows how to counter their every move.

While gill will be definitely on the defense, I'm very sure that Ken will catch him and defeat him because, his incredibly hax moves will eventually hit gill (even blocking one of kens attacks will lead to the opponent exploding, look at Tenha kassatsu and the go no Ken techniques)

Now of course gill has some advantages like AP and dura going for him. But the real edge gill has is his resurrection abilities.

Now resurrecting from a soul destroying move is insane. However this isn't like he could continually spam resurrection and do that. also while gill did survive and revive from akumas attack, this just means he has strong soul destroying resistance, I'm not even sure he could continue the fight since his body would sorta be in a bloody pool, and I've never seen gill regen his body from either being blown up or cellular vaporization(sincere is labeled to have low mid regen) so Ken will win form this, this is one way you could look at the outcome.

Now let's just say he could revive his body somehow from his body exploding and is at full health. Ken will be very much supposed by this fact and either two things will happen.

Gill will try to hit him with seraphic wings or something(but kens knowledge of said move, combined with precog Will make him dodge it or block) and Ken would most likely go museo tensei, which will put gill by complete surprise as he sees all of his attacks go through him, and once Ken goes near him he could just erase gill from existence(most don't know this but museo tensei has been defined as being able to erase a persons body from existence]

So aside from superior durability and AP, and the ability to ressurect(to clarify he can't continually revive himself with this and only has one chance to come back, saying he could comity is a lie since the gameplay shows he can't) their isn't much gill could do here.

Having knowledge of kens move sets won't change much on how he could fight back, just he'd be more distant and careful. However Ken also knows gills move set and has great combat intuition, as he realizes gill is staying away for a reason. so Ken will adapt to this as he has plenty of haxes ranged moves.

Combined with kens precog and immense skill (which from what I know of both fighters) that trumps gills. Not to mention kens overwhelming hax like MT. Ken takes this low mid difficulty

 

[Addarash]

Pretty hard to tell. I remember in the game the Seraphic Wings can only be blocked and Gill is Island level so it can easily kill Ken or may push him to the brink of death.

 

[Addarash]

Just saw that Ken is Large Town level again. Unless Gill is going easy as heck on Ken. Seraphic wings obliterates him. But since Ken is so much more experienced it's really hard to tell who would win.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Pretty hard to tell. I remember in the game the Seraphic Wings can only be blocked and Gill is Island level so it can easily kill Ken or may push him to the brink of death.

It's not impossible to dodge the move, we can't say that the move is impossible to dodge considering ken knows of the moves and could easily either find a counter for it, or simply dodge it(Ken has precog as well so dodging the move will be even easier.) if let's say men cannot block the move or move out the way, he can still go MT and the attack will go through Instead.


Edit: using game mechanics would be arbitrary and make no sense, since it would be NLF to say it can't be dodged

 

[Addarash]

Assuming he can dodge the SW, he doesn't primarily know about it in the outcome. His Precog would only be able to allow him to dodge the SW once he uses it and even when he uses it the only way Ken would dodge the attack is MT since they are the same speed. Other than that Gill does have alternates methods of killing Ken at his tier. Since Ken doesn't know he can Soul regen primarily either he may go for the kill but I don't recall how far his precog goes. So he might bypass the and kill Gill a 2nd time. The only way I see Ken winning is by him somehow evading the Seraph wings and precogs the resurrection in MT. High-Difficulty on both sides and I think Gill wins.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@addrah your forgetting his soul ressurection doesn't let him have much high regen, yes he can regenerate his soul, that means he has strong soul resistance, however how can he regenerate without a body to go to. Kens precog(or basically any hokuto precog) allows him to see the outcome of someone using a move and what would happen if he tried to take it on, or let it the move hit. Because if this he knows exactly what would happen if he tried to take on gills SW, also not to mention because the match gives him prep knowledge he knows exactly what the move does and knows how to react to it.

 

[Addarash]

Apparently, the resurrection recovers all the health back from death only shown with the body intact, I see the only way Gill will get a certain surprise attack on Ken would be SW. And the precog will allow him to react to it. However, Gill isn't a slouch when it comes to thinking as well. Gill is also aware of Ken's precog so he will just immediately use the SW since Ken can counter his normal moves. But Gill would be unaware of the MT. So it all comes down to who uses their Trump Card and will Kenn be able to evade the SW.

 

[Addarash]

My opinion has changed to Ken probably winning if he can only resurrect from his body being intact.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@Addarash the OP stated they only know each other's martial arts, not the abilities they have, so gill wouldn't know of kens precog. Also on his profile it even stated he has only low mid regen, and soul ressurection will only save him from attacks that negate durability via attacking the soul. So yah he won't be able to fight back with his body gone.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Well my vote goes to Kenshiro if this is the case and reasons stated above. Also bump this thread for more input

 

[Addarash]

I'm actually unsure of who would win but I'm sure the Meteor strike will pose as a threat to Ken even with precog.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

I have added a bit more battle description, also bump.

 

[Mandrakk_The_Dark_Monitor]

Pretty hard to tell. I remember in the game the Seraphic Wings can only be blocked and Gill is Island level so it can easily kill Ken or may push him to the brink of death.

It's not impossible to dodge the move, we can't say that the move is impossible to dodge considering ken knows of the moves and could easily either find a counter for it, or simply dodge it(Ken has precog as well so dodging the move will be even easier.) if let's say men cannot block the move or move out the way, he can still go MT and the attack will go through Instead.

Edit: using game mechanics would be arbitrary and make no sense, since it would be NLF to say it can't be dodged

Actually in the game seraphic wing can be stopped during the startup of the move, not that it matters of course cause we don't use game mechanics as feats for the canonical storyline. Anyways, I think Igniz vs Gill would be a better match since their stories and attitudes are very similar.

 

[Addarash]

I'm leaning on Gill because in terms of AP he wins. So Gill would spam ranged attacks at him and since Ken is weaker in ranged combat he loses. Definitely certain Gill wouldn't leave it to hand to hand combat. And the Resurrection can be partially impeded and prevented from all of the health reclamation as well. But I don't think Ken can counter potentially Island level ranged attacks. Their ranges: Ken being dozens of meters and a Kilometer is 1000 meters. Gill is Several Kilometers.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I'm leaning on Gill because in terms of AP he wins. So Gill would spam ranged attacks at him and since Ken is weaker in ranged combat he loses. Definitely certain Gill wouldn't leave it to hand to hand combat. And the Resurrection can be partially impeded and prevented from all of the health reclamation as well. But I don't think Ken can counter potentially Island level ranged attacks. Their ranges: Ken being dozens of meters and a Kilometer is 1000 meters. Gill is Several Kilometers.

>Ken is weaker to ranged combat

That is false, while the main hokuto Shinken style does lack ranged techniques, his other styles like nanto and gento or even hokuto Ryuken do not lack ranged attacks. Heck their physical strikes have ranged( his brother Raoh at the BOS was able to punch a distant building in the back from he wind pressure alone form a simple punch he did). So while he lacks gills ranged, it's not far behind that is for sure.

Also while I must agree with that gill has the ranged advantage, I don't think that really makes a difference considering Ken can still parry some of these attacks(meteor strike can be parried, and Ken will know how to thanks to the knowledge he has on gill and precog)

Also something to note is Ken, can erase his presence with techniques like Kükyoku Ryübu which allows him to erase his presence and sneak up on targets even in open areas.

Even if gill has the AP and ranged advantage, how usage hoi to deal with kens haxes, like I said, ressurection won't bring him back from a pool of blood or his cells or existence erased(BTW explain how gill can deal and counter museo tensei).

So the way it looks, Ken still takes this mid difficulty.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

BTW where does gill get his ranged from anyway, I don't recall meteor strike or any of his other moves being able tongue that far(than again uncoils have forgot)

 

[Addarash]

I understand Ken still has proficiency in his ranged arsenal. But how effective would they be against attacks that greatly surpass his tier? Can they be intercepted by stronger attacks? I'm definitely certain a higher AP can attenuate Wind pressure. Meteor Strike can even be avoided but Ken's AP disadvantage would find it quite difficult to parry and it mostly results in characters getting hit with at least a few. I don't recall the Meteor Strike being revocable like the SW.

I'll have to say that Gill may never resurrect from being erased from existence. Ken may even use that attack right away which poses a tremendous challenge to Gill.

Nor can I say Gill can come back from a pool of blood. I don't know how a resurrection can revive virtually destroyed cells. But a pool of blood is a start though I mean how does only the blood cells survive of all things? Anyway I know resurrection can definitely repair wounds but it is possible Gill may not recover from a pool of blood. And if Ken uses his MT which improves his speed then Gill loses.

Unfortunately, I don't recall where it comes from either I know his meteor strike should at least have the same range as his regular projectile attacks, since they are just are meteor variation.

 

[Addarash]

I may still need to change this vote again. Even if Ken MT he still won't be able to dodge the Meteor Stike because Gill can control the movement. Unless Ken gains an exponential increase of speed it is quite likely a meteor will hit which may result in the kill. Does Intangibility grant immunity to Fire and Ice? I'm also sure Ken will MT if Gill goes for the SW. Which poses a difficulty for Gill

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I may still need to change this vote again. Even if Ken MT he still won't be able to dodge the Meteor Stike because Gill can control the movement. Unless Ken gains an exponential increase of speed it is quite likely a meteor will hit which may result in the kill. Does Intangibility grant immunity to Fire and Ice? I'm also sure Ken will MT if Gill goes for the SW. Which poses a difficulty for Gill

MT grants him intangiblity to both physical attacks and energy attacks due to the fact he becomes one with nothingness.(no matter what he could do, no enemy could hit Ken in MT, on ten other hand Ken the can hit them.) so he won't even need to dodge meteor strike, he'll go through it and just reach gill.

Yes intangiblity grants immunity to fire and ice attacks.

 

[Addarash]

My vote goes to Ken in that case

 

[Mandrakk_The_Dark_Monitor]

Gill for sure, there is a clear predisposition for Kenshiro here from the looks of it

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Gill for sure, there is a clear predisposition for Kenshiro here from the looks of it

You can say the same thing for gill as well, however the difference is gill has way more predispositions than Ken does, and Ken if he can't escape or tank an attack, he just goes MT to save himself(does it every time he has no way out in a tough fight.)

 

[Addarash]

Just a matter of interest, would a character with Complete Resurrection be revived from a cellular vaporization?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Addarash I believe so unless their soul gets ripped out or have anti-resurrection hax that prevent them from resurrecting. There are probably methods to negate resurrection in some or most cases.

 

[Addarash]

Then I'm certain Gill should resurrect from a pool of blood, but not from being erased from existence.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Then I'm certain Gill should resurrect from a pool of blood, but not from being erased from existence.

Addarash, you do know that gill doesn't have complete ressurection. When he died by akuma, his body was fine and it took him a while to ressurect his soul, this just means he has strong soul resistance, but while his soul may live, he won't have a body to rescue the from so this is still a victory. Heck his regen is only low mid as well. S

 

[Addarash]

Nevermind then. I forgot we can't use the gameplay resurrection.

 

[The_Legendary_Carmine]

Kenshiro wins, reasons above.

 

[Addarash]

Ken does win if he can pull off precog then intangibility then erases Gill from existence. Also, does intangibility make Ken impervious to SW?

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Ken does win if he can pull off precog then intangibility then erases Gill from existence. Also, does intangibility make Ken impervious to SW?

First precog is a natural thing that always happens in fights and not a ability or technique he activates (this goes for anyone with precog.)

Second I'm not saying your wrong just adding that if Ken can make him explode or hit him with one of gentos attacks (which is where the cellular destroying comes from) he would dies as well.

Yes MT would make him intangible to SW, unless SW could affect nothingness (which it doesn't) than he won't be able to hit Ken.

 

[Addarash]

What if Gill destroys the surroundings and they were fighting on an island per say, and gill uses the seraphic wings to destroy the island, wouldn't it cause Ken to drown if he was intangible anyway? He would be exposed to the ocean and sink and not be able to swim back to the surface since he phases through the water until he sinks to the bottom, depending on how long he can survive without oxygen, he will need to be able to lose his ability to phase through objects otherwise, he'll suffocate and if he does Gill's seraphic wing waves can kill him, and if manages to avoid this, Ken's still got Gill at bay, since Seraphic wings gives him flight while at the same time Gill can still use his meteors which Gill can manipulate to attack a vulnerable Kenshiro. So now I'm leaning on Gill. Speed equalised, and still both fighters have a considerable challenge and I still haven't considered the amplification of MT. So Ken is likely to win as well.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

What if Gill destroys the surroundings and they were fighting on an island per say, and gill uses the seraphic wings to destroy the island, wouldn't it cause Ken to drown if he was intangible anyway? He would be exposed to the ocean and sink and not be able to swim back to the surface since he phases through the water until he sinks to the bottom, depending on how long he can survive without oxygen, he will need to be able to lose his ability to phase through objects otherwise, he'll suffocate and if he does Gill's seraphic wing waves can kill him, and if manages to avoid this, Ken's still got Gill at bay, since Seraphic wings gives him flight while at the same time Gill can still use his meteors which Gill can manipulate to attack a vulnerable Kenshiro. So now I'm leaning on Gill. Speed equalised, and still both fighters have a considerable challenge and I still haven't considered the amplification of MT. So Ken is likely to win as well.

You're legit overthinking this way too much. First His intangibility doesn't make him unable to swim or hold his breathe and swim away. Gill will not destroy the location they are in(where did you get the idea they are on a Island?) please decide who are you voting for cause at this point even I don't know.