Giygas vs Natu

[Kellex]

I looked really hard for a good matchup for Giygas until I recently found out Natu, so let's do it why not?

Rules:

1. Low 7-B keys are used.
2. Speed equalized.
3. Giygas has access to potential abilities.
4. Natu is bloodlusted.
5. Battle ends with KO, incap, or death.

Giygas' AP is 1.008325578096E16 Joules while Natu's AP is 6.070e15 Joules. Take that as you will.

Giygas:

Natu:

Giygas uses 4-D Slip and Natu uses teleport:

 

[Imaginym]

What's Giygas's in-character behaviour?

Natu....

Gold	Because its wings aren't yet fully grown, it has to hop to get around. It is always staring at something.
Silver	It usually forages for food on the ground but may, on rare occasions, hop onto branches to peck at shoots.

Ruby	Natu cannot fly because its wings are not yet fully grown. If your eyes meet with this Pokémon's eyes, it will stare back intently at you. But if you move even slightly, it will hop away to safety.

Black/White	It picks food from cactus plants, deftly avoiding buds and spines. It seems to skip about to move.

Ultra Sun	Although it still can't fly, its jumping power is outstanding. It jumps way up into trees and plucks the buds from the branches.

Natu's IC beyond jumping about & pecking isn't known well.

Maybe if it recognizes Giygas ain't something normal, or that the situation is serious, it might get serious, but a non-bloodlusted Natu may as well be a regular bird, since it doesn't seem to use many of its abilities at all.
& if you don't use them, why have them?

So, what does IC Giygas do to a hoppy lil birdy?

 

[Kellex]

Maybe if it recognizes Giygas ain't something normal, or that the situation is serious, it might get serious, but a non-bloodlusted Natu may as well be a regular bird, since it doesn't seem to use many of its abilities at all.
& if you don't use them, why have them?

Actually yeah you're right. Why didn't I think of this earlier? The poor bird would've been devastated.
I'll make Natu bloodlusted in a bit. EDIT: Done

So, what does IC Giygas do to a hoppy lil birdy?

Giygas would try to corrupt it via passive Mind Manipulation.

 

[Mickey1940]

Giygas scales to 1e16 joules, while Natu scales under 6.07e15 joules, making Giygas about twice as strong as Natu.

Most of Giygas's hax will just be bounced back from Magic Bounce.
Natu's lack of stats can be remedied from Ominous Wind omniboosts (which also boosts Stored Power) and Leer debuffs, which can potentially quadruple Natu's stats and quarter Giygas's defense
Anything that Giygas can pull off that can 1 shot Natu like PK Flash, Space Manip, Soul Manip, and more just get insta countered with Me First

it's kinda dumb to think about but if Natu is bloodlusted then Giygas is fuked. Even if both of them were bloodlusted Giygas just gets fuked by Me First regardless

Voting Natu

 

[Kellex]

Natu's lack of stats can be remedied from Ominous Wind omniboosts (which also boosts Stored Power) and Leer debuffs, which can potentially quadruple Natu's stats and quarter Giygas's defense

Giygas has a separate tab for resistances which includes the following:

Resistance to Mind Manipulation, Ice, Fire, Light, Shield Negation, Electricity Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement (Sleep, Paralysis, Confusion, Blindness, and Uncontrollable crying), Statistics Reduction, Power Nullification, and Power Absorption (Unaffected by everything that is thrown at him by both the main cast from both Mother 1 and 2)

Giygas has resistance to statistics reduction so reducing his stats won't be possible, which means Giygas can amp his stats without any problem by using PSI Offense for AP and PSI Defense for Durability stacked with normal Shields to nullify and/or reflect physical attacks (Shields can also be stacked as well with more Shields which is absolutely ******* busted). He's also resistant to most of his own powers except for soul manip, space manip, and time stop so unless if Giygas goes for those, Natu copying Giygas won't really matter.

Anything that Giygas can pull off that can 1 shot Natu like PK Flash, Space Manip, Soul Manip, and more just get insta countered with Me First

Would Natu be able to copy Limited Time Stop from Giygas? Because if it can't, then Giygas has a very small chance of bypassing Me First.

 

[Kellex]

Oh wait, Time Stop might be useless against Magic Bounce.

I thought I was cooking

 

[Imaginym]

Would Giygas stat stack IC?
That said, unsure if we can assume Magic Bounce reflects Time Stop effects without feats of such.
Presumably it could, possible NLF concerns aside, though?

Also, Ominous Wind stat boost spam seems unlikely, as it only happens 10% of the time.

Also, trying to Leer at the corrupting, maddening horror might be problematic.
To say nothing of how Giygas's (lack of) mentality may be problematic for it:

"The user gives opposing Pokémon an intimidating leer that lowers their Defense stats."

Isn't Giygas kinda insane/mindless?

 

[Kellex]

Would Giygas stat stack IC?

Considering that Giygas is a extraordinary genius/master of PSI and seeing how much power Natu is gaining/resisting, most likely. If it still sounds like I need to make him bloodlusted, then I don't mind changing it.

That said, unsure if we can assume Magic Bounce reflects Time Stop effects without feats of such.
Presumably it could, possible NLF concerns aside, though?

I'm not a Pokemon supporter myself so I've mainly done extensive research on Natu's abilities including Magic Bounce and I don't see anything about reflecting time-related status ailments, but I still don't really know how it would interact with status effects outside of Pokemon.

Also, trying to Leer at the corrupting, maddening horror might be problematic.
To say nothing of how Giygas's (lack of) mentality may be problematic for it:

Isn't Giygas kinda insane/mindless?

The Giygas being used here is from Mother 1/Earthbound Beginnings and he didn't go insane until somewhere between the aftermath of Earthbound Beginnings and before Earthbound happened. He was actually a genius before he went insane and you can actually understand what he's saying. He's still evil however.

 

[Kellex]

Giygas has resistance to statistics reduction so reducing his stats won't be possible, which means Giygas can amp his stats without any problem by using PSI Offense for AP and PSI Defense for Durability stacked with normal Shields to nullify and/or reflect physical attacks (Shields can also be stacked as well with more Shields which is absolutely ******* busted). He's also resistant to most of his own powers except for soul manip, space manip, and time stop so unless if Giygas goes for those, Natu copying Giygas won't really matter.

I forgot to mention that Giygas can also use PSI Shields to nullify or reflect incoming PSI abilities so copying Giygas won't be a good idea. However, PSI Shields can't help with durability and only one type of shield can only be used at a time so it's kinda hard to think about this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What's with the Giygas downplay here?

Magic Bounce suddenly nulling any kind of non-offensive hax is absurdly NLF, you might say it nulls also law hax or concept hax if you follow this line of logic. Most of the non-offensive hax in Pokémon are just status effects, status effects or some kind of power null, saying it can null time stop when it does not null Magic Bounce is just dumb as hell.

Plus, Giygas uses IC an attack that uses incomprehensible energy that cannot be dodged, meaning that Nati suddenly using Me First on that is already a NLF in itself. Plus, you guys are seriously thinking that Giygas, the being who was one of those who invented PSI, would keep spamming offensive attacks while Natu keeps countering those? Especially when Giygas low-key resists most of his own abilities?

Plus you guys assuming literal wild Pokémon who aren't even trained are literal fighting masters is hella cringe, I already had to deal with massive walls of text in Riolu vs Ness while countering an immense amount of assumptions and other stuff from people who did not even play EB and pretended they knew better than the supporters, so let's not do this again ffs.

 

[Kellex]

Magic Bounce suddenly nulling any kind of non-offensive hax is absurdly NLF, you might say it nulls also law hax or concept hax if you follow this line of logic. Most of the non-offensive hax in Pokémon are just status effects, status effects or some kind of power null, saying it can null time stop when it does not null Magic Bounce is just dumb as hell.

I had to make sure since I'm not Pokemon supporter myself so thanks for answering.

Plus, Giygas uses IC an attack that uses incomprehensible energy that cannot be dodged, meaning that Nati suddenly using Me First on that is already a NLF in itself. Plus, you guys are seriously thinking that Giygas, the being who was one of those who invented PSI, would keep spamming offensive attacks while Natu keeps countering those? Especially when Giygas low-key resists most of his own abilities?

Except for soul manip, space manip, and diamondization but then again PSI Shields will just reflect everything back. Also how tf did I miss that energy part? lmao

Plus you guys assuming literal wild Pokémon who aren't even trained are literal fighting masters is hella cringe, I already had to deal with massive walls of text in Riolu vs Ness while countering an immense amount of assumptions and other stuff from people who did not even play EB and pretended they knew better than the supporters, so let's not do this again ffs.

Don't worry, I'm not gonna be like that lol.

If there's anything missing or wrong from what I said about Giygas, then it's my bad because while I am a Earthbound and Mother 3 supporter myself, I know only a little about Mother 1 since it's the only one I haven't played yet, which is why I mainly brought up his potiental abilities. I do know he's a shitton smarter than almost all of Earthbound characters combined tho.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Except for soul manip, space manip, and diamondization but then again PSI Shields will just reflect everything back.

Soul hax is vague as hell here, we never see it in action, and space hax wasn't used in a combat situation. Also yes, Giygas would indeed set the PSI shields if he sees that his non-offensive attacks are bounced back, and diamondization is used from just glaring at the opponent.

Also Giygas in intelligence is really just Natu but better? I mean the guy has everything Natu has, plus better intelligence/experience, higher AP and much more to dish out.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

giygas getting ****** over by a funny little bird is the funniest match up ever

 

[Kellex]

Also Giygas in intelligence is really just Natu but better? I mean the guy has everything Natu has, plus better intelligence/experience, higher AP and much more to dish out.

Now that you said it, you are right.

At first I thought this was a good matchup, but after hearing your argument and looking my own arguments again with new info, it definitely doesn't look like Natu can do anything besides nuking itself.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Now that you said it, you are right.

At first I thought this was a good matchup, but after hearing your argument and looking my own arguments again with new info, it definitely doesn't look like Natu can do anything besides nuking itself.

I don't get what's with these Pokémon vs EarthBound fights when the Pokémon alone get stomped just from comparable abilities + way better intelligence from opponents lol.

 

[Quibster]

Doesn't Giygas just stomp here with Planetary Ranged Madnesshax?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn't Giygas just stomp here with Planetary Ranged Madnesshax?

I for some reason forgot about that and believed it was just mind hax.

Right.

 

[Kellex]

Doesn't Giygas just stomp here with Planetary Ranged Madnesshax?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at Natu's profile, Natu could use Simple Beam to swap it out with Simple or use Skill Swap to trade abilities.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at Natu's profile, Natu could use Simple Beam to swap it out with Simple or use Skill Swap to trade abilities.

It's passive. Natu would be already affected.

 

[Kellex]

It's passive. Natu would be already affected.

Well then, it is indeed a full stomp.

I'll ask someone to close this.

 

[Crobatman44]

Im so used to using Giegue for Mother 1 Giygas that my brain Malfuctioned over why poor Natu was getting matched up to Mother 2 Giygas.