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Gohan (DBS) vs Beerus (DBS)
- Thread starter Gohanblanco217
- Start date
- 86
- 30
I’d say in the anime Beerus is weaker then Jiren via multiple statements and Gohan was stated the strongest warrior and the fight is the strongest battle ever which includes Gogeta and Broly, Jiren who’s stronger then Beerus and MUI Goku who was stated stronger the Beerus as well and even Beerus and Champa so I have Gohan.
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Gohan one shots.
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- Thread starter
- #5
You think making them Bloodlusted is more fair ?
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Gohan one shots faster.
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No if Beerus is weaker then Full power Jiren before the awakening then Gohan definitely destroys even bloodlusted
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So hakai won't help ?
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Hakai only works on people weaker as stated by Whis and he probably gets blitzed before he can even use it
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Beerus is literally the start of the half 2-C scaling chain of which Gohan is much further up 
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There is no half 2-C but Gohan does have a mountain of statements saying he’s the strongest warrior by promotion and Toriyama then there’s statements saying the Gammas are on Goku’s level as well as Piccolo by Toriyama himself then Gohan saying Goku and Vegeta could help them out and still lose. There’s a Broly statement for Cell Max saying even Broly wouldn’t stand a chance if he was completed but he was stated to be complete so power wise should be that level even then as a low ball let’s say Cell Max isn’t complete we don’t know how much weaker he is but let’s say he’s weaker then Broly the fight is still stated the strongest ever meaning if this is the strongest fight ever and Cell Max isn’t Broly level then that makes Gohan so much more above SSJ Blue Gogeta or MUI Goku and Jiren so either way the Gohan and everyone of these characters are above Beerus which the statements still apply to Beerus and Champa since they went all out so the strongest battle ever is just more evidence for a massive gap between Gohan and an above Beerus level character so my vote is obviously for Gohan.Beerus is literally the start of the half 2-C scaling chain of which Gohan is much further up
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I feel like statements saying "this character is stronger than anyone or is the strongest in history of DB" should be taken with a grain of salt, cuz those statements are constantly being made. I believe that instead, we should look at the feats shown thus far in the movie and the anime. As a God of Destruction, Beerus is obviously incredibly powerful. Even in DBS: Super Hero, the fact that Goku still mentioned the other Gods of Destruction when referencing opponents that he and Vegeta had to watch out for proves that they're all still a match for them, so the difference in power shouldn't be too large.
Beerus's advantages are his much more extensive experience than Gohan since he's millions of years old, his Energy of Destruction which Gohan might have difficulty withstanding, and also his ability to use Ultra Instinct. Though it's not perfect like UI Goku or Whis, he can still utilize it for a while, which could allow him to more accurately dodge and counter Gohan's attacks. Another thing that's specific to this match is the location of the battle: Beerus' homeworld. That means he's got the homefield advantage. He's lived on that planet for countless years and must know everything about it, so he could easily lure Gohan into a secluded area and attack him from multiple angles.
Gohan Beast is indeed remarkably powerful, since he was capable of taking a blow from Cell Max without budging and overpowered his largest energy blast with his Special Beam Cannon. Cell Max was stated to be powerful enough in his completed form that not even Broly could defeat him. However, a couple things to consider: first, Cell Max had been awakened prematurely, which must've decreased his power level from what it usually would be. Cell Max was also weakened when his vulnerable point on his head had been targeted and damaged. Then, Gamma 2's sacrifice further weakened Cell Max, damaging his side and causing him to lose an arm. Piccolo himself said that they wouldn't have been able to win had Gamma 2 not weakened him. With all of this in mind, I don't think we can conclusively say that Gohan Beast is stronger than Super Full Power Jiren, UI Goku, or LSS Broly. It's definitely close, but my point is that even if it seems he's stronger than all of them, Gohan Beast could just be comparable or slightly weaker than them. Also, the fact that it was specifically mentioned that "not even Broly" could defeat a complete Cell Max heavily implies that he's still the strongest out of the top-tier characters.
Beerus's advantages are his much more extensive experience than Gohan since he's millions of years old, his Energy of Destruction which Gohan might have difficulty withstanding, and also his ability to use Ultra Instinct. Though it's not perfect like UI Goku or Whis, he can still utilize it for a while, which could allow him to more accurately dodge and counter Gohan's attacks. Another thing that's specific to this match is the location of the battle: Beerus' homeworld. That means he's got the homefield advantage. He's lived on that planet for countless years and must know everything about it, so he could easily lure Gohan into a secluded area and attack him from multiple angles.
Gohan Beast is indeed remarkably powerful, since he was capable of taking a blow from Cell Max without budging and overpowered his largest energy blast with his Special Beam Cannon. Cell Max was stated to be powerful enough in his completed form that not even Broly could defeat him. However, a couple things to consider: first, Cell Max had been awakened prematurely, which must've decreased his power level from what it usually would be. Cell Max was also weakened when his vulnerable point on his head had been targeted and damaged. Then, Gamma 2's sacrifice further weakened Cell Max, damaging his side and causing him to lose an arm. Piccolo himself said that they wouldn't have been able to win had Gamma 2 not weakened him. With all of this in mind, I don't think we can conclusively say that Gohan Beast is stronger than Super Full Power Jiren, UI Goku, or LSS Broly. It's definitely close, but my point is that even if it seems he's stronger than all of them, Gohan Beast could just be comparable or slightly weaker than them. Also, the fact that it was specifically mentioned that "not even Broly" could defeat a complete Cell Max heavily implies that he's still the strongest out of the top-tier characters.
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At least Low 2-C is what half 2-C is bruh
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There’s no half 2-C on the tier list also that makes no sense after uni+ is low Multi
I’d say there is a very good chance that Gohan is above Beerus especially when just regular Jiren is above Beerus and Gohan via statements should scale to if not above Gogeta but still above Beerus as for the evidence the narrative of the story say Gohan has the potential to be the strongest and therefore actually achieved that feat is another thing to take account of not just that or the statements about the Gammas or Piccolo or Broly and Cell Max and the statement of being the strongest battle ever or the strongest warrior ever. The statements align with the plot and narrative of the story not just that but tha author himself saying the same. But all these characters are still above Beerus which is the main point.
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At least Low 2-C comes from downscaling from baseline 2-C, a la half 2-C. Its just a shortened name for it cuz no one wants to say at least Low 2-C every time they talk about that level of AP
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That makes absolutely no sense it’s not a shortened version when half is one letter more the Low that just makes no sense. But you made it seem like it’s a different tier so that’s why I was confused
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Yeah I also think it goes to Gohan but hopefully there’s no stupid retcon of power for Beerus personally I think a better match would be Gohan Vs Jiren which I still give to Gohan but my vote still goes to Gohan he should be the strongest non Angel/Zeno character anime wise
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They're going retcon his power again cuz they want him to stay relevant
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Real talk, they could just do that by having him (and perhaps the other Destroyer Gods) train again with the reason being he wants to stay relevant
I think that serves to give him depth beyond a figure of authority and an insurmountable wall for Goku and Vegeta, as well as give him personal stakes
I think that serves to give him depth beyond a figure of authority and an insurmountable wall for Goku and Vegeta, as well as give him personal stakes
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They probably are that’s why I suggested that Jiren is a better match but for now Pre retconned Beerus if it happens probably will loses and that’s what where talking aboutThey're going retcon his power again cuz they want him to stay relevant
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Gohan
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- Thread starter
- #24
So you vote Beerus ?
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Ascended Ultimate Gohan's best feat was 1 shotting a weakened Cell Max, a character who at this point in the fight was fighting on par and overwhelming Orange Piccolo, a character on par with SSGSS Goku and Vegeta, so it's really not that impressive
Not to mention Gohan struck him in the weak point, which was previously damaged by the likes of Krillin and Fat Gotenks BEFORE Cell Max was weakened by Gamma 2. so his weak spot vulnerability should be even more prevalent now
So basically: Ascended Ultimate Gohan >>> Post Gamma 2 Cell Max => Orange Piccolo = SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually
If the anime pulls the "Beerus is by default stronger than everyone" retcon like the Manga did, then Beerus would probably demolish Gohan without any difficulty. Even as things stand, Beerus should be above Orange Piccolo, Goku, and Vegeta, and by extension a weakened Cell Max, by a pretty significant margin, so even if Gohan is by some miracle stronger, Beerus should not be far behind
Gohan's only advantage over Beerus here is raw power and speed, which he doesn't have a significant advantage of. Beerus has vastly superior skill and experience, Ultra Instinct, telekinesis, paralysis inducement, and Hakai. Gohan probably resists Hakai since weaker beings like BASE GOKU have resisted Hakai in the past, but that still doesn't mean it's not gonna hurt
I vote Beerus
Not to mention Gohan struck him in the weak point, which was previously damaged by the likes of Krillin and Fat Gotenks BEFORE Cell Max was weakened by Gamma 2. so his weak spot vulnerability should be even more prevalent now
So basically: Ascended Ultimate Gohan >>> Post Gamma 2 Cell Max => Orange Piccolo = SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually
If the anime pulls the "Beerus is by default stronger than everyone" retcon like the Manga did, then Beerus would probably demolish Gohan without any difficulty. Even as things stand, Beerus should be above Orange Piccolo, Goku, and Vegeta, and by extension a weakened Cell Max, by a pretty significant margin, so even if Gohan is by some miracle stronger, Beerus should not be far behind
Gohan's only advantage over Beerus here is raw power and speed, which he doesn't have a significant advantage of. Beerus has vastly superior skill and experience, Ultra Instinct, telekinesis, paralysis inducement, and Hakai. Gohan probably resists Hakai since weaker beings like BASE GOKU have resisted Hakai in the past, but that still doesn't mean it's not gonna hurt
I vote Beerus
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Thank you! Glad someone finally gets it. I'm not trying to downplay the events of the movie or the power of Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan, but there was a lot of outside help in the battle against Cell Max, and the damage to Cell Max's weak point could clearly be seen throughout the fight with Orange Piccolo and Gohan. The battle and outside sources heavily indicate that they only won because Cell Max was incomplete and had a vulnerable point which was targeted multiple times.
Therefore, the gap in power is not nearly as large as people assume it is. Even if Beast Gohan is stronger than Beerus, he's still got many more techniques at his disposal compared to Gohan, millions of years of experience, and an incomplete Ultra Instinct at his disposal. His Hakai, while it may not destroy Gohan, would still probably be more effective than regular attacks and weaken him more quickly. So I'll confirm it and say that I vote for Beerus
Oliver_de_jesus
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when?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Gohan Beast is >>> Cell Max, who is stated to be above LSSJ Broly when completed. The problem is, that Cell Max was released prematurely, so we can't know for sure how strong it would actually be had it been completed.
LSSJ Broly was stated to be "probably stronger than Beerus", but I'm not sure how reliable the statement is, given Goku doesn't know the full extent of Beerus' power
So, the scaling would probably be:
Gohan Beast >>> Cell Max (Incomplete) >> Orange Piccolo >> Gammas ~ SSB Goku
If we take the statement with Broly at face value, then he may be above Beerus, but I'm not sure
LSSJ Broly was stated to be "probably stronger than Beerus", but I'm not sure how reliable the statement is, given Goku doesn't know the full extent of Beerus' power
So, the scaling would probably be:
Gohan Beast >>> Cell Max (Incomplete) >> Orange Piccolo >> Gammas ~ SSB Goku
If we take the statement with Broly at face value, then he may be above Beerus, but I'm not sure
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Ascended Ultimate Gohan (I refuse to call him GOHAN ******* BEAST like it's so dumb why is it so dumb) never Cell Max upon release. He only fought Cell Max after he was severely weakened by Gamma 2, and he only killed him with a weak point strike
Cell Max was stated to surpass Broly if he was complete, but since he wasn't, he was a "mindless, uncontrollable monster", which implies that he probably only needed mental adjustments instead of physical adjustments
For all we know, Cell Max upon release had Broly's power level, but Piccolo and Gohan couldn't stand up to him whatsoever until AFTER he had been weakened, and AFTER they relied on their power-ups, and AFTER abusing Cell Max's fivehead
So basically, the scaling is:
LSSJ Ikari Broly =< Pre-Gamma 2 Cell Max >?< Ascended Ultimate Gohan + Weak point attack >>> Post-Gamma 2 Cell Max >= Orange Piccolo = SSGSS Goku and Vegeta
Beerus should scale relatively to Pre-Gamma 2 Cell Max and Broly
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,207
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Yes, but even then it was very clear Gohan had a very clear advantage against Cell Max
The statement is that if Cell Max would've been completed he'd be stronger than Broly, and as we all know, he was never completed and released prematurely. So you can't use it for scaling
Also, there's no evidence that Cell Max only lacked mind to be completed, as we know from the original Cell that Cell not only lacked mind when he was incomplete, but also power, as Semi-Perfect Cell states himself thst being Perfect would make him Perfect
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Gohan beast is the strongest character in the series so far barring the angels. He's so far above the GoD tier characters that he one shots them all.
Toriyama stated that at his strongest, gohan is stronger than anybody else.
Gohan also has statements about having "the strongest battle in history" with cell max. This would include gogeta and broly's battle along with UI Goku and Jiren's battle, even the three GoD battle. And if we take the manga continuity, Gohan's fight chronologically takes place after Black freeza who could possibly take a post granolah arc UI Gogeta.
Cell max is stated by toriyama to be possibly capable of taking down a post granolah saga Broly (after having his brain completed so physically he scales) who must have gotten far stronger after training with beerus and whis.
Gohan blocked his full power with his aura. We haven't seen a level of superiority this drastic before.
Cell max easily beat orange piccolo with one arm, piccolo is stated to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta by toriyama which scales him to their instinct forms. (The gammas scale to their blue forms)
The scaling chains look like this.
Beerus < Broly < DBS SH Broly ~ Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus <= belmod < Jiren <<< hidden power Jiren < UI Goku ~ Orange piccolo < Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus < Broly <<< Blue gogeta < Gohan beast.
Some people will say that Cell max wasn't completed so he doesn't scale to broly. However hedo states that cell max is physically complete but just needs a brain so he can be controlled. So cell max still scales to Broly and Gohan still face tanked an attack comparable in attack power to post Granolah saga broly with his aura.
Some people will say that cell max was weakened after fighting piccolo but this is wrong. He only lost his arm and still easily beat piccolo who's comparable to full power Goku and vegeta after the granolah saga chronologically. Regardless, cell max with one arm vs Gohan is still stated to be the strongest battle in history so this argument is irrelevant.
Some people will say beerus can hakai. Gohan can literally blink him out of existence before he can say the word.
Gohan washes.
Toriyama stated that at his strongest, gohan is stronger than anybody else.
Gohan also has statements about having "the strongest battle in history" with cell max. This would include gogeta and broly's battle along with UI Goku and Jiren's battle, even the three GoD battle. And if we take the manga continuity, Gohan's fight chronologically takes place after Black freeza who could possibly take a post granolah arc UI Gogeta.
Cell max is stated by toriyama to be possibly capable of taking down a post granolah saga Broly (after having his brain completed so physically he scales) who must have gotten far stronger after training with beerus and whis.
Gohan blocked his full power with his aura. We haven't seen a level of superiority this drastic before.
Cell max easily beat orange piccolo with one arm, piccolo is stated to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta by toriyama which scales him to their instinct forms. (The gammas scale to their blue forms)
The scaling chains look like this.
Beerus < Broly < DBS SH Broly ~ Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus <= belmod < Jiren <<< hidden power Jiren < UI Goku ~ Orange piccolo < Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus < Broly <<< Blue gogeta < Gohan beast.
Some people will say that Cell max wasn't completed so he doesn't scale to broly. However hedo states that cell max is physically complete but just needs a brain so he can be controlled. So cell max still scales to Broly and Gohan still face tanked an attack comparable in attack power to post Granolah saga broly with his aura.
Some people will say that cell max was weakened after fighting piccolo but this is wrong. He only lost his arm and still easily beat piccolo who's comparable to full power Goku and vegeta after the granolah saga chronologically. Regardless, cell max with one arm vs Gohan is still stated to be the strongest battle in history so this argument is irrelevant.
Some people will say beerus can hakai. Gohan can literally blink him out of existence before he can say the word.
Gohan washes.
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- Thread starter
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Honnestly in Dragon ball having a calm mind is pretty important in order to control your power and while it's true that Cell max power was complete except he does not really know to use it perfectly since he lacks a mind which means that the incomplet Cell max at his first release was not able to go full power until he faced Beast Gohan with that Moon sized Genkidama so :
Cell max at the end of the movie > Broly>>>> Cell max (Post Gamma 2 sacrifice) > Orange Piccolo= Goku/vegeta>>> Initial Cell max
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BlastX
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Ok I don't care about this matchup but...
Why would Toriyama make the statement that "If Cell Max was completed he would be stronger than Broly" if Cell Max was apparently "Complete" in the movie? Shouldn't that statement indicate that he is incomplete? He wouldn't have said If he was complete if he was already complete in the movie.
Why would Toriyama make the statement that "If Cell Max was completed he would be stronger than Broly" if Cell Max was apparently "Complete" in the movie? Shouldn't that statement indicate that he is incomplete? He wouldn't have said If he was complete if he was already complete in the movie.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,207
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Pretty much this. Toriyama refers to the power Cell Max would've had if it was completed, but as we clearly see from the movie, he was not complete. The fact he looks like Semi-Perfect Cell rather than Perfect Cell also indicates this, meaning the Broly statement is irrelevant to Cell Max's actual power
Cell Max was outright stated to not be ready and was released prematurely, which is why Dr. Hedo didn't want to release it
Nullflowerblush
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Cell Max was outright stated to be complete, with the exception of his mind control.
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I am not 100% on that scaling chain but I agree that that is why cell max couldn't beat broly without his mind. Regardless, the cell max that fought gohan was indeed using his full power and the scaling chains I put out are still true.
Hedo states verbatim that cell max is completed physically but lacks a mind and couldn't be controlled. Toriyama's own statement implies this.
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He definitely can if he’s stronger like how Vegeta did to Toppo but the gap is as if not bigger since Beerus should be weaker then Base Full power Jiren and Gohan should be far above that since he was stated to be the strongest warrior and that his fight is the strongest in history which includes MUI Goku and Jiren, Gogeta and Broly who was stated above Beerus by Goku and even Beerus and Champa. Even if you say that Cell Max is unquestionably weaker the Broly the statements still applies as it would be talking about Gohan’s massive power gap that’s a bigger difference then any of those fights.
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That's not how that works. If a hax doesn't work on someone stronger than you, than that's a weakness of the hax not a resistance feat. Ergo, Vegeta wouldn't have a resistance to Existence Erasure if that's how Hakai worked. Shoot, neither would Frieza for that matter.
