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Goku and Jiren vs. Gogeta.

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UchihaSlayer96 said:
Scenario 1 Gogeta FRA.

Scenario 2 Gogeta high diff because he demolished someone who's probably stronger than Beerus, which is the same boat Jiren is in as far as the scaling chain is concerned. UI Goku is roughly on Jiren's level, and Gogeta won't have to worry about their teamwork because they both suck at it. Especially Jiren. Jiren isn't that far above Broly, if at all.
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Neither of them have Broly durability, both are going to go down easily and quicker then what Gogeta did to Broly


Which scene did you put the most effort into when adapting the script into storyboards?

Usually at the end the enemy gets taken down by a huge attack and the Earth is saved, providing catharsis for the audience, but this time the last Kamehameha doesn't hit its target! That could be a bit of a letdown for viewers, so I had to make sure that the fights leading up to that moment were truly exhilarating. That's why the final fight between Gogeta and Broli is so brutal that if it were really happening, they could've easily gone down multiple times. To make it gratifying for the audience, they pummel each other and fire off special attacks, then it ends with a Kamehameha!! A normal enemy would've died three times from that. (laughs)
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Scenario 1 Gogeta FRA.

Scenario 2 Gogeta high diff because he demolished someone who's probably stronger than Beerus, which is the same boat Jiren is in as far as the scaling chain is concerned. UI Goku is roughly on Jiren's level, and Gogeta won't have to worry about their teamwork because they both suck at it. Especially Jiren. Jiren isn't that far above Broly, if at all.
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Both Jiren and MUI Goku are stronger than Gogeta individually, and Beerus is stronger than Gogeta Blue and Broly.
 
Jiren definitely is, and is definently stronger than realm of the power the G.O.D's were stated as to be.

In addition, Jiren is never mentioned as a mark of strength in DBSB, the only potential reference to power aside for Beerus is "another Saiyan", ie., Kefla, who was only Omen II level, who is weaker than Full Power Jiren who surpassed that already.

In addition, Goku can only accurately be scaled above Omen II, not III or MUI from the ToP, the former of which got clapped by less than FP Jiren.


Beerus has UI, so he would naturally be stronger than the both.

If you want to see me explain in further detail why, go to the similar thread i contributed to.
 
I could've sworn I read it in your post... you better not have edited it out Lmao...

Anyway. Jiren was only stated to be a mortal who surpasses GoDs.... more specifically his GoD, Belmod. How this compares to Beerus is unknown. But he was never said to be stronger than Beerus, unlike Broly who was directly compared with Beerus.
 
Mulgara said:
Even if he was stronger than Beerus, Beerus has way too much hax for Broly to deal with.
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Look I'm NOT saying Broly would beat Beerus, but what I am saying is that Jiren is certainly not more powerful than Gogeta, since he DESTROYED a Potentially Beerus level fighter without even trying.
 
If Gogeta is regarded as way more powerful than both Goku and Jiren. Unless they combine their Ki attacks like Goku and Vegeta did against Zamasu. You can add as many Jiren/Goku's as you want and they will all get stomped because that's how DB works.
 
Mulgara said:
Jiren definitely is, and is definently stronger than realm of the power the G.O.D's were stated as to be.

In addition, Jiren is never mentioned as a mark of strength in DBSB, the only potential reference to power aside for Beerus is "another Saiyan", ie., Kefla, who was only Omen II level, who is weaker than Full Power Jiren who surpassed that already.

In addition, Goku can only accurately be scaled above Omen II, not III or MUI from the ToP, the former of which got clapped by less than FP Jiren.


Beerus has UI, so he would naturally be stronger than the both.

If you want to see me explain in further detail why, go to the similar thread i contributed to.
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Rubbish

Jiren was said to be like a GoD, perhaps higher. Nothing else was ever stated to be his power

Kefla already proves Omen multiplier is weaker then the SSj2 Multipleir, and her base form was weaker then blue

Going further, Goku knows Beerus has UI, even saw him use it in the manga and Whis mentions it to him in the anime, and guess who was probably stronger then Beerus ? Broly

Stop with the youtube level nonsense
 
Mulgara said:
Even if he was stronger than Beerus, Beerus has way too much hax for Broly to deal with.
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He doesn't have any hax that would threaten Broly, DB works simple, the stronger you are, the more resistent you are

Beerus hax didn't stop Vegeta in CSSJB beating him lol
 
No, Kefla doesn't prove the UIO multiplier is weaker than the SSJ2 aka supposedly 2x. Stop spreading nonsense because there never was an official or accepted SSJ2 multiplier and Kefla's transformation is different from Ordinary SSJ. Omen's showings demostrate way more than 2x SSB or SSBKKx20
 
Anyways, Jiren IS above GoD tier. The anime itself says so. Though if it is either Base or UBW Jiren the one above GoDs it's debatable.
 
@Mr John West; I agree with you on everything except the multiplier portion. Kefla's SSJ2 is merged with Kale's Berserker power, so it's definitely not just 2X. But that doesn't change anything, Gogeta is definitely stronger here.
 
Omegas03 said:
Anyways, Jiren IS above GoD tier. The anime itself says so.
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It only implies he's on that level, but as we all know not all GoDs are the same. Sidra is fodder for example, so the statement doesn't actually mean anything lmao.
 
Jiren is above Belmod. And until we have info on how the two stand to each other then Belmod is comparable to Beerus IMO.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
@Mr John West; I agree with you on everything except the multiplier portion. Kefla's SSJ2 is merged with Kale's Berserker power, so it's definitely not just 2X. But that doesn't change anything, Gogeta is definitely stronger here.
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Kale was struggling with SSj2 Goku along with caulifa as he took both of them on, and basically made both of them shit themselves looking at SSj3. Kefla SSJ form struggled with SSJB and edged out SSJB KK who was exhausted. And her SSJ form was already mixed with her berserker powers as well. To be blunt

Base to SSJ is 50 x

SSJG Goku was losing to Base Kefla but SSJB Goku held his own against SSJ Kefla, meaning SSJ Kefla and SSJB Goku had similar multipliers from their previous powers.

Regardless, while SSJ Kefla scales to SSJB and SSJB KK, base Gogeta was scale abother both blue Goku and Vegeta.
 
Omegas03 said:
Jiren is above Belmod. And until we have info on how the two stand to each other then Belmod is comparable to Beerus IMO.
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Even if he is, and Jiren is above him, we don't know by how much, while Gogeta is FAR above someone who's stronger than Beerus.
 
Omegas03 said:
Jiren is above Belmod. And until we have info on how the two stand to each other then Belmod is comparable to Beerus IMO.
Click to expand...
But he wasn't massively above Belmod though, cause he was still said to be like a GoD while being stronger then Belmod. Meaning the gap in power could be no different then beerus and Champa
 
Kale was struggling with SSj2 Goku along with caulifa as he took both of them on, and basically made both of them shit themselves looking at SSj3. Kefla SSJ form struggled with SSJB and edged out SSJB KK who was exhausted. And her SSJ form was already mixed with her berserker powers as well. To be blunt

Base to SSJ is 50 x

SSJG Goku was losing to Base Kefla but SSJB Goku held his own against SSJ Kefla, meaning SSJ Kefla and SSJB Goku had similar multipliers from their previous powers.

Regardless, while SSJ Kefla scales to SSJB and SSJB KK, base Gogeta was scale abother both blue Goku and Vegeta.

Don't forget that fusion is also a massive amp. But anyhow this is irrelevant. Gogeta stomps imo.
 
Omegas03 said:
No, Kefla doesn't prove the UIO multiplier is weaker than the SSJ2 aka supposedly 2x. Stop spreading nonsense because there never was an official or accepted SSJ2 multiplier and Kefla's transformation is different from Ordinary SSJ. Omen's showings demostrate way more than 2x SSB or SSBKKx20
Click to expand...
Kefla SSJ form was looking towards the standard multipliers as her base form was a stronger then SSJG and her SSJ form (which was mixed with her LSSJ powers) was going toe to toe with SSJB Goku who was tired. Meaning her LSSJ powers didn't make her gain that much.

Plus Kale was only SSj2 tier anyways, cause SSj2 Goku handled both of them pretty well. Omen was weaker then a SSj2 fusion made up from 2 SSj2 level characters, doesn't compare to what Gogeta is pushing back, even Base Gogeta or Vegito are > SSJB Goku and Vegeta, something Kefla isn't close to in her base form

UIO was weaker then SSj2 Kefla in power, Gogeta or Vegito scale way higher then that, UIO isn't even above SSJ Gogeta let alone SSJ2 Gogeta
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Kale was struggling with SSj2 Goku along with caulifa as he took both of them on, and basically made both of them shit themselves looking at SSj3. Kefla SSJ form struggled with SSJB and edged out SSJB KK who was exhausted. And her SSJ form was already mixed with her berserker powers as well. To be blunt
Base to SSJ is 50 x

SSJG Goku was losing to Base Kefla but SSJB Goku held his own against SSJ Kefla, meaning SSJ Kefla and SSJB Goku had similar multipliers from their previous powers.

Regardless, while SSJ Kefla scales to SSJB and SSJB KK, base Gogeta was scale abother both blue Goku and Vegeta.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that fusion is also a massive amp. But anyhow this is irrelevant. Gogeta stomps imo.
Indeed, if Gogeta appeared in that moment along with Kefla, he wouldn't need anything more then SSJ to smack the shit out of Kefla. Goku and Vegeta fusion scale leagues higher then Kefla in every form
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
@Mr; oh I thought u meant Jiren and UI. Gogeta probably beats Kefla in base LMAO
Click to expand...
Post ToP Gogeta easily crushed SSj2 Kefla in base, even SSJB Vegeta surpassed Omen Phase 1 as he knocked down Jiren and landed clean blows on him. A ToP Gogeta who would hypothetically appear at the same time as Kefla (episode 115) would only need SSJ to crush her
 
Post ToP Gogeta easily crushed SSj2 Kefla in base, even SSJB Vegeta surpassed Omen Phase 1 as he knocked down Jiren and landed clean blows on him. A ToP Gogeta who would hypothetically appear at the same time as Kefla (episode 115) would only need SSJ to crush her

Agreed.
 
Well, I'll gotta concede on that to an extent, anyways SSJ Kefla was stated to be as strong as the Genkidama so she wasn't really as on par but above him, considering Goku even used Kaioken. Kefla was just holding back. Plus the SSJ2 multiplier is unquantifiable and it doesn't matter considering the UIO gives way higher increases:

Omen 1 Goku = Casual Jiren >>>> The Genkidama/Even more casual Jiren >>>> SSBKKx20 >>> SSB.

FP Jiren > Omen 3 Goku >>> 3 auras Jiren >>>> SSBE Vegeta and SSBKKx20 Goku >>> SSB.

So anyways, the gap between Omen and SSB or SSBKKx20 ain't lower than the SSJ to SSJ2 multiplier, Omen is explicitly shown to be on another whole level compared to SSB Kaioken.

And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.

I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.

EDIT: Kale isn't SSJ2 tier. SSJ Kale was, but Green Haired/Controlled Berserker/SSJ2 Kale wasn't far below SSG Goku. In fact she kicked SSJ2 Goku's butt and forced him to God. She was even willing to continue the fight but Caulifla was totally injured.
 
Omegas03 said:
Well, I'll gotta concede on that to an extent, anyways SSJ Kefla was stated to be as strong as the Genkidama so she wasn't really as on par but above him, considering Goku even used Kaioken. Kefla was just holding back. Plus the SSJ2 multiplier is unquantifiable and it doesn't matter considering the UIO gives way higher increases:
Omen 1 Goku = Casual Jiren >>>> The Genkidama/Even more casual Jiren >>>> SSBKKx20 >>> SSB.

FP Jiren > Omen 3 Goku >>> 3 auras Jiren >>>> SSBE Vegeta and SSBKKx20 Goku >>> SSB.

So anyways, the gap between Omen and SSB or SSBKKx20 ain't lower than the SSJ to SSJ2 multiplier, Omen is explicitly shown to be on another whole level compared to SSB Kaioken.

And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.

I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.

EDIT: Kale isn't SSJ2 tier. SSJ Kale was, but Green Haired/Controlled Berserker/SSJ2 Kale wasn't far below SSG Goku. In fact she kicked SSJ2 Goku's butt and forced him to God. She was even willing to continue the fight but Caulifla was totally injured.
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Your downplaying Broly insanely hard along with Beerus, and ignoring the huge increases in power Goku and Vegeta had got within the TOP.


Omen Goku phase 1 was surpassed by SSJB Vegeta in episode 121 when he actually did what Omen Goku Phase 1 couldn't do, land 2 or 3 blows on Jiren and knocked him down for a bit with the final flash, Omen Goku Phase 1 couldn't do that at all. Goku had gotten much stronger within the TOP, SSJ Kefla got hurt badly by SSJB KK Goku who was exhuasted as stated by Her and Champa. Kefla was never holding back in SSJ, she simply wasn't that much stronger then Blue Goku in SSJ.


And their isn't such a thing called 3 aura Jiren, he did an omnidirectal blast to take out Goku, Vegeta and 17 as he couldn't hold all 3 of their attacks without an attack of his own to counter. And yeah, SSJ Gogeta is stronger the Omen Goku cause he scales far higher, you basically ignore any increases in strength Goku and Vegeta got within the TOP. Kefla didn't need God Ki and only SSj2 to one-shot Omen, what makes you think Gogeta would need it when he scales leagues higher then kefla


And Kefla shows SSJ to SSJ2 > Kaioken to Omen, that's what shown, all you did is provide head canon to try and fit everything within your narrative. And no, Kale ovrpowered SSJ2 Goku but Goku still held his own, SSJG Goku who was exhuasted tanked Kale and smacked her silly.
 
When did I ignore the huge increases during the ToP when I just said that Omen 3 Goku is GoD tier, not 1 or 2.

Kefla was comparable to the Genkidama so she was stronger than SSBKK Goku. Saying Goku went from way weaker than his Genkidama with SSBKKx20 to equal or stronger than it with merely Blue is ridículos. Even Kefla was able to keep up with SSBKK Goku (unspecified value, though).

I refer to the Jiren that curbstomped the Trio as 3 aura Jiren, that same Jiren had to exert himself more in order to dominate UIO Goku. And yeah, Kefla could have one shotted UIO2 Goku (which is likely weaker than Base Gogeta from the Movie) but that doesn't mean SSJ-3 Gogeta could do the same to a STRONGER Goku. UIO3/MUI Goku are upper border GoD level and Gogeta needed Blue to deal with that kind of opponent. Simple as that.

And no, Kefla doesn't prove anything because of a ton of reasons. Considering she even adapted to Goku's power because she was really a lot weaker at first and then adapted to be able to one shot him. It doesn't really matter since comparing multipliers doesn't help your case and it's better to go with feats and statements. The increase from pre UIO SSBKK to UIO1, the one from post UIO SSBKK to UIO2 and the last one SSBKK to UIO3 aren't necessarily the same).

Goku didn't smack Kale, Kale was able to trade blows with him and managed to deviate the attack with mere brute force. She wasn't even exhausted or injured at all and she was able/willing to continue. sure as hell that is way above SSJ2-3 lvl. Considering even Ordinary SSJ Kale along with SSJ2 Caulifla forced Goku to use SSJ3.
 
Omegas03 said:
'When did I ignore the huge increases during the ToP when I just said that Omen 3 Goku is GoD tier, not 1 or 2.'Kefla was comparable to the Genkidama so she was stronger than SSBKK Goku. Saying Goku went from way weaker than his Genkidama with SSBKKx20 to equal or stronger than it with merely Blue is ridículos. Even Kefla was able to keep up with SSBKK Goku (unspecified value, though).
You basically just proved right now you ignored Goku increases in strength. SSJB Vegeta was able to do what not even UIO in episode 110 wasn't able to do and that was knock down Jiren for a bit, if Blue Vegeta got that strong then Goku himself would also get strong enough to fight someone as strong as the spirit bomb. Kelfa struggled with Blue Goku and Blue KK, both were exhuasted.

I refer to the Jiren that curbstomped the Trio as 3 aura Jiren, that same Jiren had to exert himself more in order to dominate UIO Goku. And yeah, Kefla could have one shotted UIO2 Goku (which is likely weaker than Base Gogeta from the Movie) but that doesn't mean SSJ-3 Gogeta could do the same to a STRONGER Goku. UIO3/MUI Goku are upper border GoD level and Gogeta needed Blue to deal with that kind of opponent. Simple as that.

Wrong, Jiren used an omni direction blast after Goku, Vegeta and 17 blast connect on his aura as he is struggling to push it back and then uses his own attack to blow away all of them. UIO phase 3 was weaker then 127/128/129 Jiren, SSj3 Gogeta isn't needed to do something like that, cause Gogeta Base > Kefla SSJ form as shown by feats (talking about multipliers of how strong each fusion is). MUI is upper GoD level, Omen Phase 3 clearly isn't.

And no, Kefla doesn't prove anything because of a ton of reasons. Considering she even adapted to Goku's power because she was really a lot weaker at first and then adapted to be able to one shot him. It doesn't really matter since comparing multipliers doesn't help your case and it's better to go with feats and statements. The increase from pre UIO SSBKK to UIO1, the one from post UIO SSBKK to UIO2 and the last one SSBKK to UIO3 aren't necessarily the same).

She actually does need to prove whatever assertions you believe in cause otherwise it's purely head canon. Goku was tired and Kefla got Goku from behind, regardless Kefla SSJ form got hurt badly from SSJB KK Goku. Kefla preform those feats cause she fused, saying that other fusions who scale way higher don't apply is laughable, your merely downplaying how powerful Gogeta is. They are all the same, Jiren is fighting 2 guys x 20 level, and a SSJB level guy in 17, SSJ Broly was already 50 x of Post TOP level as he went SSJ on top of his rage form which was SSJB level, and Base Gogeta > SSJB Goku and Vegeta. No statements put Omen or Jiren in 127 above either Broly SSJ or SSJ Gogeta, however Novel says Broly > Jiren 127 at least and power scaling shows who is superior.

Broly and Gogeta SSJ have more evidence and statements and scaling, unlike Jiren and UIO Phase 3


Goku didn't smack Kale, Kale was able to trade blows with him and managed to deviate the attack with mere brute force. She wasn't even exhausted or injured at all and she was able/willing to continue. sure as hell that is way above SSJ2-3 lvl. Considering even Ordinary SSJ Kale along with SSJ2 Caulifla forced Goku to use SSJ3.
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SSJG Goku tanked her attack silly and smacked her, and SSj2 Caulifa was rekted. Kale was only stronger then SSj2 Caulifa, and she was controlled berserker the whole time as well, she wasn't only SSJ as she controlled her powers and got even stronger then before as stated, showing how strong Goku has gotten as well. SSj3 Goku made them both worried.
 
Agree with John, the power amps in the ToP were insane. BlueKu seemed relative to Kefla, before she used a smokescreen and surprised attacked him out of blue.
 
And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.

I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.

.
UI Beerus > LB Jiren >= MUI Goku = FP Beerus > Broly > SSB Gogeta.

Why would Base Jiren be stronger than Broly, weaker than Gogeta?

Where is the proof that Beerus is as only aa strong as Omen and why the **** is Base Jiren stronger than Omen and FP Beerus?
 
And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.

I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.

.
UI Beerus > LB Jiren >= MUI Goku = FP Beerus > Broly > SSB Gogeta.

Why would Base Jiren be stronger than Broly, weaker than Gogeta?

Where is the proof that Beerus is as only aa strong as Omen and why the **** is Base Jiren stronger than Omen and FP Beerus?

Wait what lol.... Gogeta is significantly stronger than FP Broly.
 
Mulgara said:
And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.
I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.
Click to expand...
.
UI Beerus > LB Jiren >= MUI Goku = FP Beerus > Broly > SSB Gogeta.

Why would Base Jiren be stronger than Broly, weaker than Gogeta?

Where is the proof that Beerus is as only aa strong as Omen and why the **** is Base Jiren stronger than Omen and FP Beerus?

Why is Broly weaker then Beerus yet stronger then Gogeta ? What drugs are you taking lol
 
Mulgara said:
And no, Gogeta ain't defeating someone who's GoD tier (don't bring Toppo or Sidra because they are totally pathetic compared to UIO3) without a Godly form such as SSG or SSB. SSJ Gogeta being stronger than UIO3 Goku is totally ridiculous.
I go by:

Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku/UBW Jiren >>>> Base Jiren > Broly >= Beerus = Omen Goku >>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.
Click to expand...
.
UI Beerus > LB Jiren >= MUI Goku = FP Beerus > Broly > SSB Gogeta.

Why would Base Jiren be stronger than Broly, weaker than Gogeta?

Where is the proof that Beerus is as only aa strong as Omen and why the **** is Base Jiren stronger than Omen and FP Beerus?

what a mockery of scaling.
 
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