Goku Downgrade

[Joseph619]

And yeah there's no need to think Goku would die from burn since Vegeta survived Magetta's lava just fine. I am pretty positive it was the lack of oxygen weakness which is why its not outlier since it's consistent with saiyan weakness. Anybody who thinks Goku would die from burn is downplaying

 

[EnoYaka]

Thanks Joseph, I didn't think of it that way.. They were standing in what seemed like a cave though, not the core. I guess I'm just pissed it is written in such a way in super that it consistently makes the chars look dumb or weaker than normal.

 

[Joseph619]

Thanks Joseph, I didn't think of it that way.. They were standing in what seemed like a cave though, not the core. I guess I'm just pissed it is written in such a way in super that it consistently makes the chars look dumb or weaker than normal.

The fact that saiyans durability drop when they put their guard down (and taken down by laser) is one of the worst writing for weakness. It's like authors themselves like to make the characters look pathetic. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta still need to breathe to live which is dumb

 

[AquaWaifu]

isnt Goku's concern from being in the core, just his own thoughts? LIke he THOUGHT he would die from being there, but actually wouldnt? I mean Beerus and Whis were fine there, no reason to think Goku wouldnt. I mean I guess maybe them being the God of Destruction and an angel respectively help...

 

[Sethisbest]

Didn't Goku survived being tossed into lava & vulcano against Frieza?

 

[Aimenaltair]

Guys lave has no oxygen in it too So don't jump int conclusion it's the lava's heat.

 

[RadicalMrR]

1)This is filler, if filler is accepted as canon people will be able to upgrade DB to high hell.

2)The entire fight with Mageta, Vegeta's ki could cut through lava, the same Ki they use to protect themselves.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Since when is anything in Super filler? Ive never heard of a filler epiosde in the series so far, IIRC everything in Super is canon atm.

 

[AppleLord]

Goku wasn't using any Ki at all. Is not PIS is just the same general weakness all DBZ characters have when not using their Ki.

 

[Kyo_Zero]

For as much as I'd love to downgrade DBZ, this doesn't seem much like Goku having trouble withstanding the heat, but more like he cannot breathe in the earth's core, I'm fairly certain he can't breathe in the vaccum of space right? So maybe the lack of ability to breathe is what kills him, as opposed to not being able to withstanding the earth's core.

Also quick question, how exactly does one visit in inside of the core? Since it is a solid, are they talking about the outer core? Or just flat out being inside the SOLID core of the planet?

 

[RadicalMrR]

Since when is anything in Super filler? Ive never heard of a filler epiosde in the series so far, IIRC everything in Super is canon atm.

As far as I know toei doesn't get Toriyama's manuscripts for these type of episodes.

 

[AppleLord]

The Earth's core has been recently calc at 6,000 C as Hot as the Sun's surface. DBZ characters have never survive the sun, not even in filler.

 

[Dark649]

From what i remember Broly in the second coming used his energy shield to protect himself from the lava.

 

[Antoniofer]

This shouldn't change their stats, however being enough vulnerable to high temperatures will reduce their durability against some kind of attacks: being shaked by nukes, damaged by prolonged time in magma, lava or star surfaces, common lightnings (currents itself negate durability), even the can be killed by supernovas.

Now I remember Salamir... "The sun burns more than our attacks"...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

This shouldn't change their stats, however being enough vulnerable to high temperatures will reduce their durability against some kind of attacks: being shaked by nukes, damaged by prolonged time in magma, lava or star surfaces, common lightnings (currents itself negate durability), even the can be killed by supernovas.
Now I remember Salamir... "The sun burns more than our attacks"..

but the only time stuff like this has happend was in filler and it would downgrade magetta to wall level becuse his lava would be considered normal lava.

 

[Antoniofer]

This wouldn't downgrade anyone, is just a note about the what can damage the characters (high temperatures in this case); also, people upgraded several characters due fillers too (Piccolo is one of them), despite contradictions.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

This wouldn't downgrade anyone, is just a note about the what can damage the characters (high temperatures in this case); also, people upgraded several characters due fillers too (Piccolo is one of them), despite contradictions.

no it would down grade magetta becuaes he batteled vegeta with lava

and am gratley agenst that upgrade.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Well I doubt he can breathe just fine in the core, given the toxic fumes.

 

[PostmodernD]

Toxic fumes may be a legit thing he can't protect himself from, the heat and pressure though? Not even sure why it's being discussed.

 

[LoudCloud]

I think people need to keep in mind that heat in fiction is is treated differently to heat in real life, usually because the writer doesn't know much about science and how heat actually works.

In fiction, it's treated as a sepperate kind of concept to energy and lasers. That's why you see ice-based characters tank energy attacks just fine but melt when confronted with other types of heat like fire, magma etc. For example, Frost Giants in Marvel are very vunerable to fire despite being able to take on lighting attacks (which should also be very hot).

I guess in DB it's similar where energy/laser heat and such =/= magma heat and such.

 

[AppleLord]

Magnetta's lava was counter with Ki, Vegeta never touch it.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Magnetta's lava was counter with Ki, Vegeta never touch it.

he still countered it this is filler and there is a alternt way what goku said which is less inconsitent.

 

[AppleLord]

DBS has no filler since it's not base on a manga. All DBZ characters are weak without using Ki is been shown through the whole series. You can't make excuses for all of it.

 

[LoudCloud]

Countering with a Ki attack is a Ki AP feat and not a durability feat.

 

[AppleLord]

Countering with a Ki attack is a Ki AP feat and not a durability feat.

You're correct. Glass cannon DBZ.

 

[Sidali891]

If anything, Beerus and Whis would get heat resistance in their abilities.

As for Goku, it's an outlier, why?

Kid Goku tanked jet fuel to the face

Namek Goku survived getting tosssed in lava

Vegeta sliced through lava with his bare hand

 

[FTW395]

Third law of Newton basically confirms that Dragonball Z characters aren't glass cannon's. Especially because Goku and Beerus were colliding their universe shattering punches with eachother. In all honesty we shouldn't take any feat or anti-feat that happens in a light-hearted episode as legitimate, but rather treat it as an outlier.

 

[Antoniofer]

If anything, Beerus and Whis would get heat resistance in their abilities.
As for Goku, it's an outlier, why?

Kid Goku tanked jet fuel to the face

Namek Goku survived getting tosssed in lava

Vegeta sliced through lava with his bare hand

Welp, for that:

1) Jet fuel burns at 500 K at much

2) I think than that was an anime thing, an even there Goku was "knocked" for awhile

3) Must be due are and time of contact, without mentioning that he is attacking for deflect it, is acommon thing in anime

Any of those contradict what we has watched a cross the serie. Beerus and the Gods being invulnerable to heat is a thing that I can believe

 

[Shock97]

The Oxygen/Toxic fumes argument makes sense. Didn't consider that.

 

[AppleLord]

The Oxygen/Toxic fumes argument makes sense. Didn't consider that.

That was never mention, even if it makes sense. That still gives Goku weakness to poison base abilities.

 

[Shock97]

The Oxygen/Toxic fumes argument makes sense. Didn't consider that.

That was never mention, even if it makes sense. That still gives Goku weakness to poison base abilities.

I don't think he's ever had resistance to poison, so alright then.

 

[RadicalMrR]

The toxic fumes and lack of oxygen is a much better reasoning than "DB characters are weak to heat".

 

[Antoniofer]

They are weaks against poison and toxines, but they are weaks against high temperatures is another weakness; saying that they can't survive to high temperatures isn't contradicting anything, and has been brought back in several occations.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Antonio The entire Maggetta fight contradicts this, Vegeta used ki to attack the lava.

AP=Dura in Dragon ball so SSJ Vegeta has 4-B heat resistance which is the exact same as his other stats.

 

[FTW395]

I agree with @RadicalMrR

In all honesty we've no idea if this episode is filler or not, hell super in itself is barely canon.

 

[Antoniofer]

In that same fight magma attacks from Magetta could damage Vegetta when, iirc, was mentioned to be common magma.

But, has Goku ate cheese before, there's any that suggest that Goku is allergic to cheese? We known that several other times characters has been damage by high temeperatures, being damaged this time doesn't means nothing special, they certainly can't support high temperatures (at certain point)

 

[Dark649]

I agree with @RadicalMrR
Hell super in itself is barely canon.

Super is supposed to take place during the ten years timeskip to the Peaceful World Saga. Beerus, Golden Frieza and Zamasu Saga's are canon, this episode not that much since nothing big happened.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I final stance is this should be treated as an inconsistency.

Unconscious Goku survived re entry into earth's from something we know 100% is canon but here in this one off episode a 4-B can't handle earth's core.

 

[Sidali891]

You people keep forgetting, Goku said "Won't I die if I go there?"

Goku never specified the cause of death if he went there. For all we know, it could be due to intense pressure or lack of oxygen, not only heat, but apparently people immediately went for heat. Besides, Goku is an idiot, and let's be honest about that, his word shouldn't be taken as is all the time, not to mention, he was questioning wether he can survive or not, and not directly confirming 100% he can't survive.

So in conclusion, this is too vague to be accepted, unless it's further explained, which will likely never get addressed again


@Antoniofer The namek Goku feat wasn't an anime thing, it was shwon in the mange, and he didn't get knocked out at all, he actually got back immediately

https://plus.google.com/u/0/116683850698338764575/posts/T2uF2PvhbXH

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Third law of Newton basically confirms that Dragonball Z characters aren't glass cannon's. Especially because Goku and Beerus were colliding their universe shattering punches with eachother. In all honesty we shouldn't take any feat or anti-feat that happens in a light-hearted episode as legitimate, but rather treat it as an outlier.

Maybe but the problem here is that, no matter what the verse and it's customs, an inconsistency is still in inconsistency. We can't just ignore any/all inconsistent anti-feats just because its Dragon Ball. Im not saying I agree with the downgrading but if we give this treatment to other verses, then DB should be given the same treatment to be fair.