Spinoirr
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this is an really good analysisAight. Here's my two cents.
Scaling:
From what I've read on a few threads regarding the whole "half 2-C" scaling thing for Dragon Ball, Goku in his 3rd UI Sign seems to scale to Beerus (who is half apparently half 2-C).
Devil Doom somewhat scales to Super Shadow for engaging him in combat. Shadow also apparently being half 2-C. The scaling for that is a bit weird, but I'd assume it would look like this for these two:
Goku (3rd UI Sign) = Beerus (Half 2-C)
Devil Doom's Durability >> Super Shadow (Half 2-C) >= Devil Doom
Their AP is relatively close, if not dead even. Since Devil Doom's profile states Super Shadow's attack couldn't do any particular noteworthy damage without damaging the eye, it shouldn't be far-fetched to say that DD's durability exceeds his AP.
Battle:
The boss fight against DD shows that he just starts with using his TK to levitate meteoric rocks that fire beams of energy, along with himself breathing fire. Goku has instinctive reactions in this form, so dodging those wouldn't be a real problem for him. And as formidable as DD is, he doesn't abuse his teleportation, only ever occasionally doing it after being attacked for a bit. But even if he did teleport away, Goku can just tail right after him. Devil Doom's Time Stop also wouldn't affect Goku, since he has a layered resistance to it.
After the initial few blows, Goku would catch on that his attacks aren't exactly doing anything and opt for finding weak points because of his masterful prowess in martial arts. His insane RPL would also immediately kick in, so even if he doesn't find the weak point in time, his speed and strength would've grown to a point he'd be able to overwhelm Devil Doom. This isn't even mentioning him advancing to MUI.
Despite the time limit Goku has in UI, he's basically bloodlusted in the form. So he's not going to just stall for the entirety of that duration, but instead attempt to finish the fight quickly.
Opinion:
All in all, I'd have to give it to Goku more often than not. The advantage he has in sheer skill on top of utilizing UI's advantages seems to completely override anything DD can throw at him. So if it isn't a stomp, then I'm voting for Goku.
Not in the manga and in DBS. In the manga, Goku would've died from the explosion of Namek as he can't survive in space. In RoF, Vegeta died when Frieza blew up Earth since he can't survive in space. And don't bring BoG as they weren't actually in space. They were on the higher atmosphere, but not in space itselfI do have to argue on the space thing, as thats pretty inconsistant in dragonball
The key is anime as 1Not in the manga and in DBS. In the manga, Goku would've died from the explosion of Namek as he can't survive in space. In RoF, Vegeta died when Frieza blew up Earth since he can't survive in space. And don't bring BoG as they weren't actually in space. They were on the higher atmosphere, but not in space itself
Anime DBS is continued from canon DBZ, not Anime DBZThe key is anime as 1
Can you show a scan? In the manga? There was also oxygen where Goku and Beerus battled. Not a lot but there was, and Goku had enough stamina to keep fighting despite having lower oxygen than usual. However he can't survive with no oxygen at all and this was proven in DBS Anime with Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base formAlso, in Z Vegeta trained on an astroid out in space, abd the atmosphere thing is sorta bs as its very clearly upper athmosphere.... which has little tp 0 oxygen
Manga is a no which is not what I was referencing here, and Im pretty sure the astroid thing was off screen, 1 sec while I searchAnime DBS is continued from canon DBZ, not Anime DBZ
Can you show a scan? In the manga? There was also oxygen where Goku and Beerus battled. Not a lot but there was, and Goku had enough stamina to keep fighting despite having lower oxygen than usual. However he can't survive with no oxygen at all and this was proven in DBS Anime with Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base form
This never happened. Bulma just assumes Vegeta is dead.Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base form
This never happened. Bulma just assumes Vegeta is dead.
Freeza can breathe in space, and can tank the explosion. (as he literally did in Namek)Everyone involved died but goku, beerus, and whis, and possibly frieza
Base Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)Apparently on 1, I realized I need to rewatch super
On another note, Vegeta didnt tank it, He was very clearly labeled as dead, and whis, goku, or beerus would be able to te if her survived
We're talking a verse where laser pistols can damage godly empowered characters out of nowhere, simply because they were offguard, and characters like bulma can survive a hit from characters like beerus, that can destroy a planet at a tap... I fail to follow your reasoning, and there is literally no proof that Vegeta survived (also note that base frieza survived attacks like destruction energy, being sliced in half, being sliced into pieces, and his brother survived literally as a single scrap of flesh)Base Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta doesn't tank it.
MAKES. SENSE. Just kidding, it doesn't. He was labeled as dead by Bulma, she isn't a reliable source for life sensing. Beerus and Whis didn't care because they can rewind time, and Goku was probably thinking about using the dragon balls anyway
Huh? It was an alien laser damaging base form Goku. not a godly empowered character.We're talking a verse where laser pistols can damage godly empowered characters out of nowhere, simply because they were offguard
Huh? I fail to follow yours, both examples do NOT counter or even apply here.and characters like bulma can survive a hit from characters like beerus, that can destroy a planet at a tap... I fail to follow your reasoning.
I don't need to prove a negative. If Base Freeza survived the explosion, it couldn't POSSIBLY have killed a character unquantifiably above him without further proof.And there is literally no proof that Vegeta survived
Base Freeza? Golden Freeza survived destruction energy.(also note that base frieza survived attacks like destruction energy, being sliced in half, being sliced into pieces, and his brother survived literally as a single scrap of flesh)
It's not the AP that killed him, it's being in outer space with no oxygen to survive. Frieza can survive in space. Vegeta and Goku can'tBase Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta doesn't tank it.
Actually, Piccolo says that Frieza couldn't just die, but took the whole Planet with him, which includes Vegeta. Whis later says that Frieza didn't die, and Beerus note that Frieza's species can survive in spaceMAKES. SENSE. Just kidding, it doesn't. He was labeled as dead by Bulma, she isn't a reliable source for life sensing. Beerus and Whis didn't care because they can rewind time, and Goku was probably thinking about using the dragon balls anyway
Huh? I fail to follow yours, both examples do NOT counter or even apply here.
Beerus wasn't trying to kill Bulma, otherwise, and this might shock you, she'd have freaking died. Just because Beerus tried to HARM her, doesn't mean she should die from it, regardless of how strong Beerus is.
Base Form goku still has God KiHuh? It was an alien laser damaging base form Goku. not a godly empowered character.
....Here, Vegeta was not off guard,
Freeza doesn't have a brother.
DBS follows the canon manga. Not the non-canon anime and movie material. Cooler doesn't exist in DBS (Maybe he will like Broly, but as of now he doesn't)as for the Frieza's brother, (Technically not canon), I will say... he is certainly cooler than frieza, you should give him a try
Twas bringing up examples of Arcosians surviving immense injuriesDBS follows the canon manga. Not the non-canon anime and movie material. Cooler doesn't exist in DBS (Maybe he will like Broly, but as of now he doesn't)
Chaos Control can BFR the opponent to a different dimension with 2-C range. Goku isn't coming back from this as IT has 3-A range at mostregardless, to get back on topic, Im voting Devil doom for BFR (Which no one has ****** explained yet)
Yeah no, Goku's IT is only potent enough in XenoverseChaos Control can BFR the opponent to a different dimension with 2-C range. Goku isn't coming back from this as IT has 3-A range at most
Xeno Goku is 2-A though, so that isn't an option, also a completely different GokuYeah no, Goku's IT is only potent enough in Xenoverse
If he would have no choice, he would. There's no reason for Devil Doom to do it to Shadow since Shadow also uses Chaos Control, even if he BFRs, Shadow would instantly return. He also know Shadow has his DNA so he wouldn't try to do it as he knows Shadow can counter itbut would he do it?
he didn't do it in his boss fight
Exactly my point... and Xenoverse Goku and Xeno Goku are not the same person at all, Xeno Goku and SDBH isn't even canon to XenoverseXeno Goku is 2-A though, so that isn't an option, also a completely different Goku
They're arguing the explosion killed Vegeta.It's not the AP that killed him, it's being in outer space with no oxygen to survive. Frieza can survive in space. Vegeta and Goku can't.
So Vegeta just instantly dies just by being in a place without oxygen. It takes 0 seconds for his brain to go W A C K Y?Actually, Piccolo says that Frieza couldn't just die, but took the whole Planet with him, which includes Vegeta. Whis later says that Frieza didn't die, and Beerus note that Frieza's species can survive in space
this feat isn't really valid then for the argument at all...as the vacuum would indeed kill Vegeta in about 15 seconds with holding his breathSo Vegeta just instantly dies just by being in a place without oxygen. It takes 0 seconds for his brain to go W A C K Y?