(GRACE)The Psychopath Boss Fight We Sadly Never Got

[Xx.davidparra]

I've covered bumps, you know

 

[Jackythejack]

How does something that is clearly game mechanics show a preference for something? The game just wants him to have a weapon, and they choose the baseball bat because it's a good weapon? If he's infinitely spawning a baseball bat I think it's safer to say game mechanics than an in character preference

 

[Abstractions]

How is something that is initially represented by a cutscene game mechanics?

 

[Jackythejack]

Because this implies that frank has a hammerspace that allows him to pull baseball bats out of nowhere. It's in the game codes and impossible to change, he randomly gets a baseball bat literally out of nowhere if not given a weapon. It's game mechanics.

 

[Abstractions]

You are taking it far too literally, if the game demonstrates him holding a bat at the beginning of the game through that's the weapon they decided he will keep in-game. Don't twist it into something it isn't.

 

[Jackythejack]

It doesn't even have an explanation for why he gets it though. I don't think then realizing they need to give frank a weapon, and therefor giving him a weapon that is good, suddenly shows a preference. It seems like pure game mechanics. It's in the code, it's generally unable to be explained where the bats come from, and it's convenient for you, the player, so you don't have to keep giving him new weapons. It'd be the same reason why AI followers have infinite ammo. It's game mechanics.

 

[Abstractions]

It doesn't need an explanation though; Frank has a bat, Frank stays with bat the entire campaign. It's simple. Attempting to justify it as game mechanics is wrong because then you are suggesting actual story cutscenes are wrong.

 

[Jackythejack]

He he has the bat in one cutscene, isn't that what you said? Saying that one cutscene is right is fine, sure, but anything else after that feels like game mechanics when referring to the baseball bats because he just keeps getting new ones. He stays with it because he's literally forced to by the game. It doesn't show a preference.

besides cutscenes can be weird. Iirc you can show up in the pre-carlito fight cutscene without the gun and yet have a gun in the cutscene. I could be wrong but it seems like something dead rising would allow. Cutscenes can be wrong at times with games like dead rising.

 

[Abstractions]

Except he isn't forced, the player can give him a weapon but once that breaks he will return to the bat, it's meant to confirm preference.

Because you receive a gun from Jesse in the cutscene prior, you aren't meant to throw it away immediately because helping Brad what you are go do right after. This is less cutscenes being wrong but showing player influence is wrong.

 

[Wokistan]

What's frank's AP at? Fairly sure he isn't bulletproof anyways.

Does "fully equipped" mean Jacket has the stuff that the other Ghost Wolves could pick from, as well as the guns he can start the levels with with the right masks?

 

[Jackythejack]

3 megajoules.

 

[Wokistan]

Versatility honestly doesn't really seem like that big a deal. Sure you got a wider variety of weapons and shit but at the end of the day all you need is a kill and Jacket's guns, melee weapons, and flamethrower will do fine for that. Which of the combo weapons are going to offer a greater benefit than a heavy sniper rifle and range?

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh I forgot they're at range. That changes my argument significantly okay. (Unless op wants to say otherwise)

Frank takes reduced damage from bullets. It's literally one of the upgrades you get in DR4 so Jacket's going to be doing less damage. Frank basically just has to snipe but invulnerability smoothies help him out a hell of a lot.

 

[Wokistan]

Does frank really deal with stealth though? Pretty sure Jacket'd be able to shoot from further away than him, elite spec ops and all.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean frank's dealt with sniper's before and professional military mercs so I don't think it's out of the question.

 

[Tybaltcapulet]

Frank FRA

 

[Wokistan]

Generic military is hardly equivalent to Jacket's thing though. 4 dudes taking out a place in an afternoon that an entire company couldn't do in weeks is rather ridiculous.

 

[Wokistan]

ALso these fra voters sus as hell given that their contribs consist of literally nothing but FRAs on random threads. Diseasedcock got blocked, so you should remove him from the tally.

 

[Jackythejack]

I dunno what you want from me on the FRA voters but eh. Frank can eliminate military from large parts of the willamette mall, who had been situated there for several weeks at that time anyways, and he just comes in and ***** everything over for them really bad, and could defeat Calder, which all of the other mercs couldn't do over the course of the weeks they were stuck in the mall.

 

[Wokistan]

Not you the OP

 

[Moritzva]

If Frank legitimately has an upgrade for bullet resistance then that gives him one hell of a leg up, as it means he has quicker and more reliable kill methods, while Jacket's piercing won't be nearly as good.

 

[Xx.davidparra]

ALso these fra voters sus as hell given that their contribs consist of literally nothing but FRAs on random threads. Diseasedcock got blocked, so you should remove him from the tally.

I removed them from the tally

 

[Xx.davidparra]

If Frank legitimately has an upgrade for bullet resistance then that gives him one hell of a leg up, as it means he has quicker and more reliable kill methods, while Jacket's piercing won't be nearly as good.

Is that a vote?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Frank FRA.

 

[Xx.davidparra]

What's frank's AP at? Fairly sure he isn't bulletproof anyways.
Does "fully equipped" mean Jacket has the stuff that the other Ghost Wolves could pick from, as well as the guns he can start the levels with with the right masks?

I mean't he could use anykind of melee or firearm weapon he has. I'm also not totally familiar with Hotline Miami so I wouldn't know about that

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Jacket - 1, Frank - 4

 

[Xx.davidparra]

I dunno what you want from me on the FRA voters but eh. Frank can eliminate military from large parts of the willamette mall, who had been situated there for several weeks at that time anyways, and he just comes in and ***** everything over for them really bad, and could defeat Calder, which all of the other mercs couldn't do over the course of the weeks they were stuck in the mall.

Let's also not forget Frank fought Cliff Hudson a Vietnam War veteran and defeated him pre-combo weapons in an environment perfect for guerilla warfare

 

[Abstractions]

Let's also not forget Frank fought Cliff Hudson a Vietnam War veteran and defeated him pre-combo weapons in an environment perfect for guerilla warfare

Cliff was functionally insane at that point in time and the military in Willamette don't compare to Jacket, the Ghost Wolves could clean out Willamette alone and wouldn't need a whole company to do it.

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Let's also not forget Frank fought Cliff Hudson a Vietnam War veteran and defeated him pre-combo weapons in an environment perfect for guerilla warfare

Cliff was functionally insane at that point in time and the military in Willamette don't compare to Jacket, the Ghost Wolves could clean out Willamette alone and wouldn't need a whole company to do it.

I don't see how Cliff being insane hampers his fighting capabilities and if we go by your logic Frank would beat Cliff only using a baseball bat, which only makes the feat much more impressive. I agree that Jacket wrecks Frank in terms of skill but Franks arsenal and haxs would eventually be too much (Invulnerability juice,elemental weapons, experience against skilled snipers and bloodlusted psychopaths, etc.)

 

[Abstractions]

Arsenal doesn't matter when the fight can be ended fast and efficiently, his experience against snipers is limited to a hunting family with very limited combat experience and fighting psychopaths is moot save for the select few like Cliff or Brock.

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Nothing Jacket has is gonna hurt Frank if he takes a swig from Invulnerabilty juice

 

[Abstractions]

Nothing Jacket has is gonna hurt Frank if he takes a swig from Invulnerabilty juice

Frank would have to use that first above everything else he's ever used, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Nothing Jacket has is gonna hurt Frank if he takes a swig from Invulnerabilty juice

Frank would have to use that first above everything else he's ever used, which is highly unlikely.

especially if you think he only uses a baseball bat IC.

 

[Abstractions]

especially if you think he only uses a baseball bat IC.

It's not what I think but what the game shows.

 

[Suenoangela]

Frank for reasons above

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Frank for reasons above

Vote counted

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Frank wins. He's covered wars, you know!

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Frank wins. He's covered wars, you know!

Vote counted

 

[Noel.caliber14]

Franky boi FRA

 

[Xx.davidparra]

Franky boi FRA

Vote counted