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Gray vs Meliodas

^In fact but I am not sure how that would work with the fact Gray could try to stop his blade and freeze it after which he wouldn't have full counter anymore that there are also spells gray can use to defend him self so I would go for Gray.

Gray would get hit by full counter, but would take almost no damage since its ice based attack, after that he could be more defensive and try to find a way to catch and freeze Meliodas's blade and after that he could win much easier cause Meliodas would be without his full counter, another option would be to simple create an Ice sword and fight him adding from time to time other attacks since Meliodas wouldn't counter everytime And there is also the fact to consider if Meliodas can counter a maker-magic user since it's practically only weapons made of ice nothing else.

Vote for Gray.
 
Meliodas win via full counter, he can counter any attack ( even wood style one ).

Gray can't beat him with Ice, Full counter is a serious problem against magical/elemantal and energy attack.

Meliodas can also use counter vanish, to make all the Ice vanish in instant via his ability again.

I can't see Gray winning this match honestly, people tend to forgot how OP and Hax Meliodas really is with his full counter.
 
I thought that sword was important to Meliodas? If Gray does something like that, he's going to make Meliodas infuriated. What about Counter Vanish? Ice is an elemental attack so Meliodas would be able to counter or disperse Gray's attacks. Along with Revenge Counter, I go for Meliodas.
 
Quazell88 said:
Gray via his ice can't be melted
Click to expand...
Pretty much Natsu can melt his Ice in his END form.

Also, don't forget that Meliodas use an enhanced and strongest version of flames attack, black flames or purgatory flames which cannot be stopped via conventional means.

Also, there is full counter and counter vanish which can deal with his " magic " Ice with ease, remember, full counter is the answer that Meliodas has against magic attack lol.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Is this the Meliodas who had the black stuff on his body?
Click to expand...
That back stuff is his demonic darkness power, even in his sealed form ( 3370 of power level at the beginning of the serie ).

He can still deal with Gray in base form since he has the perfect counter against Gray's ability, full counter. Really, Meliodas doesn't have to fear anything since he will keep countering whatever Gray will throw at him with ease.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
I thought that sword was important to Meliodas? If Gray does something like that, he's going to make Meliodas infuriated. What about Counter Vanish? Ice is an elemental attack so Meliodas would be able to counter or disperse Gray's attacks. Along with Revenge Counter, I go for Meliodas.
Click to expand...
Yes, counter vanish is the perfect technique against Gray's magical Ice since that ability vanish and disperse the magic or technique ( elementary or energy ) of his opponent.

The only way for gray to win is to fight Meliodas with his physical strength alone but you know that he is a joke without his Ice attack, he will not beat Meliodas with his mere physical punch lmao.
 
Is counter vanish really as effective against all attacks as u say? IIRC counter vanish is effective against projectile attacks, but Gray's instantaneous freezing is exactly that- instantaneous. I don't know how Melodias can defend against something like that.
 
@dooyo Maker magic creates objects so gray can use those to fight and his freezing will affect Meliodas and his sword not to mention Meliodas was shown to not be able to use counter the entire time and without his sword he is much weaker not to mention gray can also go in phisical brawl by engulfing his hand in ice which counter affect wouldn't work on.

And Natsu can affect his ice only because they are both slayers anyone external to this can't.

Not to mention Gray is a demon slayer and Meliodas is a demon he would get much more damage while Gray won't really even care about ice attacks from his full counter.
 
WilliamShadow said:
@dooyo Maker magic creates objects so gray can use those to fight and his freezing will affect Meliodas and his sword not to mention Meliodas was shown to not be able to use counter the entire time and without his sword he is much weaker not to mention gray can also go in phisical brawl by engulfing his hand in ice which counter affect wouldn't work on.
And Natsu can affect his ice only because they are both slayers anyone external to this can't.

Not to mention Gray is a demon slayer and Meliodas is a demon he would get much more damage while Gray won't really even care about ice attacks from his full counter.
Click to expand...
Actually, Meliodas doesn't need a sword to activate his counter vanish, I suggest you to inform youself about counter vanish, it doesn't work in the same fashion as full counter, and also full counter can easily reflect back his projectile, it's his specificity, Gray can't do anything against it.

Which damage when all his attack will be useless against Meliodas's main ability full counter ?

Demon slayer magic, 'in order to damage Meliodas, he need his Ice magic, too bad Meliodas is a demon who possess a hax move which can cancel his magic with ease.'

I repeat Gray can't do anything but physical brawl against Meliodas, how do you think that all his opponent never tried to use offensive magic against him ? Now you know why.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Is counter vanish really as effective against all attacks as u say? IIRC counter vanish is effective against projectile attacks, but Gray's instantaneous freezing is exactly that- instantaneous. I don't know how Melodias can defend against something like that.
Click to expand...
Counter vanish is just his full counter dude, it's a sub category of his own magic, of course it would work since all his attack is magic based attack lol. ( I don't need to teach you that full counter work against any kind of offensive ability or attack except physical attack, that is stated many time in the manga, Ice attack isn't an exception lol ).

You think his full counter will counter physical attack or what ? Meliodas also has resistance against Ice as he proved here clearly : http://mangalife.org/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-80-page-16.html

Meliodas was frozen to the core and yet was able to free himself that easily despite that, so even if he freeze him, it wouldn't matter at the end since with his clones ( who has full counter ), he can deal with him any time.

Instantaneous ? Lmao, Meliodas already full countered something far more instanteneous, invisible and difficult than a mere Ice magic technique, King's disaster ability.
 
Don't quote large amount of text it's a rule here.

You start your phrase with actually he can activate the counter vanish without his sword as if I said he can't ,but I guess since I didn't specify that for third time it's reasonable that you mistook that.


and now you completely ignore the fact Gray creates object and attacks with those like swords,hammers or engluped his hand in ice so he can fight Meliodas since full counter wouldn't work on it and if he catches Meliodas's hand or sword he can freeze it or simply defend him self with ice barrier and Gray can also attack from the point where Meliodas is standing so his full counter is worthless again and even he does full counter ice against gray is not a big deal (almost worthless) and of course Meliodas can't use full counter constantly.

And counter vanish is limited as well its not like he can vanish any of Gray's attacks.
 
Funny how you think that full counter wouldn't work against it despite being things made out of magical source, do you read NNT ?.

Meliodas already countered solid attack : http://mangalife.org/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-62-page-9.html

There, he countered wood style technique with ease, which is solid attack, I told you, Full counter work against anything which isn't indirect or physical attack, learn the specificity of his ability before saying things that doesn't exist.

He can free his sword by using his purgatory flame, lol, it's like you forgot that he has hellfire in his arsenal + soul steal as being a demon from the demon clan who can eat souls as breakfast.

How he can't use full counter constantly when he has his sacred treasure + clones at his disposal which can use full counter as well ? The purpose of his sacred treasure and his clones is that he can spasm full counter to greater degree that before, that is the point of Lostvayne.

How counter vanish is limited ? Because you say so lol.

You are really funny, you decided that his counter canish wouldn't work on Gray's attack because you understand how troublesome it would be for him lmao.

Nice joke ( since you doesn't even back your arguments with scan from the manga ).
 
@Dooyo ok first off I do not need u to try and act condescending, especially since u didn't answer my question. I didn't ask whether counter vanish can disperse magic or whether it was a sub-category of full counter, what I asked was whether it can block an attack that is instantaneous. And the scan u showed really doesn't help ur argument- Meliodias was frozen fair enough but was it "to the core" as u claimed and even then Gray is a devil slayer his magic is Meliodas' proverbial kryptonite. In fact u may have just proved my point; if counter vanish can counter instantaneous attacks y didn't he use it to prevent himself from being frozen? Honestly I just get the impression that so many ppl just seem to call out "full counter" when Meliodas is involved thinking it's more than enough to get him the win.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
@Dooyo ok first off I do not need u to try and act condescending, especially since u didn't answer my question. I didn't ask whether counter vanish can disperse magic or whether it was a sub-category of full counter, what I asked was whether it can block an attack that is instantaneous. And the scan u showed really doesn't help ur argument- Meliodias was frozen fair enough but was it "to the core" as u claimed and even then Gray is a devil slayer his magic is Meliodas' proverbial kryptonite. In fact u may have just proved my point; if counter vanish can counter instantaneous attacks y didn't he use it to prevent himself from being frozen? Honestly I just get the impression that so many ppl just seem to call out "full counter" when Meliodas is involved thinking it's more than enough to get him the win.
Click to expand...
Sorry but that wasn't my attention to act condescending, yes, I answered your question, he can do that since he already done that against King's disaster.

You forgot to mention that he was frozen because it was a sneak attack, he didn't saw Vivian who frozen her but since this is match against Gray who is in front of him, that is another story.

Kryptonite sure but it's not impossible for Meliodas to fight him, look at Mard and Natsu in END, Gray was able to hurt them but that doesn't mean that he was able to finish them alone or easily, it would be the same with Meliodas, you think that he is a fodder or what lol ?

He has clones, which can put a diversion and has full counter too, one clone is caugh, the second can free him with counter vanish or purgatory flames.

Gray will fight 5 Meliodas, not only one, sure they are weaker but it doesn't matter since they can use full counter, which is far from enough against Gray and his Ice magic.

they can also flight and attack at distance with his darkness and flame attack. Gray can't do anything against an opponent which can flight and who is fast like Meliodas + cancel his attack via his magic again.

Deal with it, he has no means to touch Meliodas, let alone to hurt him with his magic with full counter, full counter is basically the anti magic hax, if you read NNT, you know what I means about that.
 
You wanna go trough everything ha?

First: I said his counter vanish wouldn't work all the time (not never read better) because they are on same lvl and an ability like that takes quite some energy and he also never used it on someone his own lvl which probably means it's very exhausting and is something not to do.

Second: he creates a sword of ice and wields it with his hand Or makes an extension of his elbows with ice blades and he can engluped his hand in ice as I already said now you tell me how you think full counter would work on that, its not an attack like like plant whip that goes on the opponent, but it's an object in his hand,on his hands or on his elbows and since Meliodas never countered stuff like that which in fact is completely illogical and pretty much impossible since there really isn't an explanation to what would happen. Grays ice pillar attacks from the ground,from the spot his opponents is standing,like in battle with Juvia so Meliodas can't really use full counter on that.

Third: Gray is a devil slayer a power that makes demons and their powers weak which would make hellfire almost worthless,and he would not be able to break trough his ice with that since that's something only a slayer can do and his flames are weakened thx to devil slaying magic effect. What you also seem to forget is the fact Gray is resistant on demon abilities, like when Mard geer used "memento mori" that ignores durabilty and erases persons existence it actually only succeded at damaging Gray because devil slayer power protects (giving him a certain resistance) against demons powers and abilities.

Fourth: actually it's pretty much the same as third point, but just so you know Gray is even higher than at least island lvl against demons for having a big advantage against them and for the end you need to understand this is all about point of view Meliodas has many things in his arsenal that could give him the win and so does Gray, and for me personally Gray has the advantage here while for you Meliodas trying to prove otherwise to each other is pretty much waste of time so I am probably just gonna end it here.

If you are not very knowlegable about FT and you need scans from manga about anything I stated above i can find them and show you even thou, you can see most of those things on his profile already. And don't worry about scans from NNT I follow the series very carefully since it's my second favourite (shounen) after FT.
 
Ok thank you I just wanted an answer to my question. Now first off I couldn't remember whether he knew Vivian was present or not so that's my error, but if this is a straight up fight without prep time I assume, I still find it difficult to believe he'll be able to completely counter Gray (considering that Gray's instantaneous freezing is much easier to cast than Vivian's- a simple wave of his hand compared to her frantic motions), also its stated on this wiki that he cannot counter indirect attacks- which Inst Freezing is- though if u can present scans of him countering Kings disaster I will be willing to concede. I will concede though that the clones will be a problem but too many and they all literally become fodder. But I agree he has the range and flight advantage no doubt. PS. Gray isn't as helpless in a straight up physical confrontation as u seem to think, he could quite easily make vambrances from ice to augment his blows.
 
What are talking about ? Again, you base your assertion on what evidence ? Show me where it is stated that his counter vanish wouldn't work all the time. Counter vanish is full counter, but it work on a different manner, it cancel or vanish the attack instead of reflecting back to the enemy.

That is pretty basic lol.

Exhausting ? I knew that you don't read NNT, full counter isn't exhausting, on the contrary : http://mangalife.org/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-119-page-13.html

Meliodas use zero power to activate his magic full counter, zero power is exhausting for you ?

Second, he can counter vanish that, and no more swords of Ice and wield, pretty easy again, that is why he has variant you know. Or vaporize that with his purgatory flame sword, he has several means other than full counter.

" Gray is a devil slayer a power that makes demons and their powers weak which would make hellfire almost worthless,and he would not be able to break trough his ice "

Where you get that their power become weak against the slayer ? Lol, don't make stuff that doesn't exist the manga, Gray's slayer magic is effective against Demon, doesn't mean that he is immune or the demon's attack become weak against him.

Mard was demoninating him, and without the help of Natsu, he would had lost, and Mard was a demon too, just like Meliodas, same with END, why he doesn't make Natsu's flame useless ? They were equals, but here Meliodas has hax with him which is full counter, too bad lol.

And lastly, Gray is far from Island level lol, what is that nonsense, no one is Island level in FT, not even Acnologia, look at his profile.
 
Uh no u need to look at his profile, recent revisions in light of Eileen's meteorite have resulted in some impressive upgrades. But that shouldn't even matter this battle is between their 7B forms.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Uh no u need to look at his profile, recent revisions in light of Eileen's meteorite have resulted in some impressive upgrades. But that shouldn't even matter this battle is between their 7B forms.
Click to expand...
Link please ?
 
^you should look at their profiles again because the revision is done and Gray is at least island lvl likely higher against demons while Acnologia is going to be upgraded on at least large island lvl and possible country lvl.

For all the rest vanish counter was never used on same lvl opponent but weakling so that's more than enough proof for me and I said vanish is exhausting not full counter.

Let's just end it here since our opinions on this are simply different.

Oh,and Natsu is also a dragon slayer that why he can brake his ice since his E.N.D power was not even fully activated it was just a begging of transformation and not demons flames but dragon slayers flame.

Back than gray was much weaker than now also because he had basically no actual knowlege about his powers and Mard geer was significantly more powerful and once again full counter was NEVER used constantly in battle which probably means he can't.
 
Sorry new in here don't know how to post links and such, but the changes are still being implemented some profiles have already been changed while others are still being changed by the OP of this thread u can check around if you'd like.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Hmm, I thought Devil Slayer Gray was getting upgraded to Mountain level?
Click to expand...
The one against Mard Geer, but the one against Invel goes on at least island, higher with demons.
 
WilliamShadow said:
^you should look at their profiles again because the revision is done and Gray is at least island lvl likely higher against demons while Acnologia is going to be upgraded on at least large island lvl and possible country lvl.
For all the rest vanish counter was never used on same lvl opponent but weakling so that's more than enough proof for me and I said vanish is exhausting not full counter.

Let's just end it here since our opinions on this are simply different.

Oh,and Natsu is also a dragon slayer that why he can brake his ice since his E.N.D power was not even fully activated it was just a begging of transformation and not demons flames but dragon slayers flame.

Back than gray was much weaker than now also because he had basically no actual knowlegable ad out his powers and Mard geer was significantly more powerful and once agin full counter was NEVER used constantly in battle which provably means he can't.
Click to expand...
Monspeet, a 10 commandment level demon who has 53000 of power level is a weakling ? http://mangalife.org/read-online/Nanatsu-No-Taizai-chapter-128-page-19.html

And keep in mind that Meliodas at that time was only a mere 3370 power level character, a fodder to monspeet, despite that his full counter can counter his attack with ease as noted by Monspeet himself, the context is clear, you really don't know NNT lol.

Also in the scan that I posted, a clone of Meliodas who has 450 power level countered an attack of Albion, a beast of 5500 power level, if you read NNT, you know that power level is a thing in that manga, and thanks to that, we can know who is stronger than who and who is weaker.

So yeah, pretty easy again.

Gray is Island level based on what feat and calc ? Link me the evidence please ? Thank in advance for that.

Again, counter vanish is full counter, that is a part of his magic arsenal, you are reaching into something that doesn't exist in the manga lol.

He cancel the move, there is nothing exhausting about that, no more than reflecting the move back to him lol, same source which is his magic ability.

Like Ban's snatch, fox hunt and hunter fest are techniques from his snatch ability, same with Meliodas, that is basic, I can't believe that you don't know that lol.

I like how you ignore the fact that I told you that he has 4 clones at his disposal, all of them have full counter too, if you want him to spasm full counter, there is no better scenario, his clones are here for that but keep ignoring the obvious.

Natsu isn't a dragon lol, his body is made from demon's stuff and when he fought Gray, that was his demon side which was the strongest and yet he can't do shit to him, they were equals.

Nice try but Mard geer still beat him despite being a demon, so nope.
 
Natsu isn't a dragon slayer. Okay, I am done here I already gave my vote and reasons.


For Invel and Gray look at the Fairy tail Revison thread.
 
^first off Gray is scaled off Invel who has an island level feat (whom he dominated once he was bloodlusted), I honestly wish I could set a link for u but I don't have the know how. And the second thing (minor really) but Natsu's transformation into END was definitely incomplete- evidenced as the transformation seemed to become more pronounced over a passage of time. Hence we can't claim that was Natsu at his "most powerful"
 
Davidsteel1 said:
^first off Gray is scaled off Invel who has an island level feat (whom he dominated once he was bloodlusted), I honestly wish I could set a link for u but I don't have the know how.
And the second thing (minor really) but Natsu's transformation into END was definitely incomplete- evidenced as the transformation seemed to become more pronounced over a passage of time. Hence we can't claim that was Natsu at his "most powerful"
Click to expand...
There is zero feat from Invel which is remotely close of Island level, what are you talking about ? And he can't be scaled to Irene since Irene is stronger than him, she is the strongest spriggan, along with August, the rest of the spriggan are weaker, therefore they don't benefit the scaling, that is elementary.

Now, where is the feat which can put Irene in Island level ? The meteorite ? It was small city level.

It was complet END, because END is gone, the last chapter proved that the END seed is gone forever, Natsu killed his END side, as predicted by Zeref in Tartaros arc.

Natsu is pretty much underwhelming now if you read the last chapter ^^.
 
the seed is what causes natural transforming but Natsu is still E.N.D only that his transformation can now occur only with opening the book or else without his demon side he would die since that's what keeps him alive connecting him to Zeref.

That calc is outdated because the speed is too low now go take a look at Fairy tail revision thread you have every thing there.

I will find it for you just a sec.
 
The Irene calcs meteor speed was recalculated to be sub-relativistic, following this there were three different results ranging from island to small country level, the low end was decided upon- island level- and the argument was made that since 2 other Spriggan already had island level feats: Brandish elevating an island and Invel freezing a fair portion of the landscape after Universe one (including the mountain on the backdrop) that island level spriggan was very much plausible and then this was used to scale the rest of the cast. Frankly I shouldn't be explaining this pls find the relevant threads and you'll get ur answers
 
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