Hellaverse - Calculations - 1

[Vzearr]

Please don't get angry and become condescending to me. I've done nothing wrong and I'm not in a good mood. I'm just debunking calculations. I wanted to make this thread because it's been on my mind for a while. We will start from the top and work our way down, more calculations in a thread = too many different debates.

Stolas twists the sky

Flaw: Uhm, so... Yer kinda just presupposed that the clouds are not separated and instead are one... big... large... cloud. Which is clearly not the case. So, the mass is wrong. So is the moment of inertia.

I also look at the speed calculation, and it's obviously flawed. 1 full rotation is assumed; there is no evidence that the clouds do a rotation in the timeframe stated, and we can't really see it. The math isn't any better. We use a cylinder as if that remotely makes sense. This calculation would be a lot more complex. I have other debunks that I'll fix up when this thread is accepted, either me making the recalculation or someone else with me guiding them.

The Might of Lilith's beams

Honestly, I don't really get it.

I classify this feat as unusable.

Pixel scaling and the perspective contradict eachother. You're scaling a 3D, angled structure as if it’s flat, which likely inflates the size. On top of that, assuming cloud density is baseless since the material isn’t proven to be real clouds. Those... Aren't clouds. I dead ass think they're just there as a falsified visual. The clouds around it remain constant.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

oh. Debunking form a calc perspective? Alright then. Hmm, i agre

 

[ShionAH]

I am confused. You think the calculation is unusable or the feat itself??

Charlie confirms they are indeed clouds



(2.20)

 

[Vzearr]

I am confused. You think the calculation is unusable or the feat itself??

The feat, or well, it'll be almost imp to calculate.

Charlie confirms they are indeed clouds



(2.20)

All good then regarding clouds.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Please don't get angry and become condescending to me. I've done nothing wrong and I'm not in a good mood.

That's an interesting way to start a thread.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

That's an interesting way to start a thread.

VSBW Users get heated

 

[ShionAH]

I suggest making the feat 2-C instead of trying to work around the semantics and math

Seriously though, Idk about calculations so I wont speak on that yet but I heavily disagreeing with just throwing the single best onscreen feat of the verse to the trash. It’s just not the solution here.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Master class of a difference. The way the OP calculates it... I don't know. I decided to do a **** ton of volume calculations and concluded that they calculated it like this π * 3033809 * (160353558^2 -159578380^2). Or something like that.

Wrong

 

[Vzearr]

Yo, what the **** am I talking about? You're correct on the volume.

I did something completely different. My mistake. I changed my OP.

I just got wrecked..

I suggest making the feat 2-C instead of trying to work around the semantics and math

Seriously though, Idk about calculations so I wont speak on that yet but I heavily disagreeing with just throwing the single best onscreen feat of the verse to the trash. It’s just not the solution here.

Kinda has to happen, no way to calculate it properly unless I dive into pov stuff, but that's not happening any time soon.

 

[ShionAH]

I fully disagree with OP now.

They look like clouds, Charlie calls them clouds, Heaven seem to be consistent on this as it has rainbows and we saw Adam creating clouds so it’s not so unbelievable the Angels created them. I kinda need something from you to assume they aren’t

I don’t quite understand whats wrong with the pixel scaling, seems like you kinda went over that a lil too fast. Can you elaborate why the lines are so wrong that the feat shouldn’t be ever used again?? Sorry I don’t know about calcs much.

 

[Vzearr]

I fully disagree with OP now.

Alrighty.

They look like clouds, Charlie calls them clouds, Heaven seem to be consistent on this as it has rainbows and we saw Adam creating clouds so it’s not so unbelievable the Angels created them. I kinda need something from you to assume they aren’t

I assume they aren't because those "clouds" we see on the outside before the feat aren't affected when the clouds go boom. We also don't see any form of clouds near the planet, so why does a random mass of them spawn out of nowhere? It's nonsensical.

I don’t quite understand whats wrong with the pixel scaling, seems like you kinda went over that a lil too fast. Can you elaborate why the lines are so wrong that the feat shouldn’t be ever used again?? Sorry I don’t know about calcs much.

Okay, so notice how for the orange line, the depth is going further away from the point of view? That makes the depth look smaller. Great, the calculation is a lowball, but then you look again. The reference, i.e., the planet, is further away from the point of view, by kilometres. Making the whole shockwave thing look larger. Oh and the blue line being in the middle is kinda... Eh. The whole thing is at an angle, so can you really scale it that well? No.

 

[ShionAH]

I can’t see the links you sent for the clouds.

For the pixel scaling, lowkey I dunno. I can’t really get the grasp of the perspective you are talking about.

Either way, we are NOT dumping a PLANETARY+ feat and kicking Lucifer’s ass to TOWN LEVEL because the planet is at a barely noticeable side angle that makes the lines wonky (if I understood that correctly)

Worst case scenario we should figure out a way to fix it, no?

 

[Vzearr]

I can’t see the links you sent for the clouds.

See what I mean now?

For the pixel scaling, lowkey I dunno. I can’t really get the grasp of the perspective you are talking about.

If something is further away from the point of view, it makes the thing closer to the point of view larger if you're pixel scaling.

Notice how the rock looks larger because it's closer to the point of view? Yeah.

Worst case scenario we should figure out a way to fix it, no?

Well, that would require a formula I have to make, and that'll take up too much of my time, especially when I'm studying other things at the moment and working on other threads.

Another person could attempt it, and I could try to put my own evaluation on it I guess.

 

[DaReaperMan]

No.

Clouds being slightly closer is not reason to throw out a calc. This comes off as, frankly, nitpicking for the sake of it and not even realizing why X is Done for what reason. And I'm going to treat it that way, because our calcs ain't ever going to be perfect and there's a dozen ways to do each one, so unless you're going to angsize and replace it, you got my disapproval.

 

[Vzearr]

No.

Clouds being slightly closer is not reason to throw out a calc. This comes off as, frankly, nitpicking for the sake of it and not even realizing why X is Done for what reason. And I'm going to treat it that way, because our calcs ain't ever going to be perfect and there's a dozen ways to do each one, so unless you're going to angsize and replace it, you got my disapproval.

I debunked it, this is no rebunk.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Seems we reached an impasse.
Time to call in the CGM.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I debunked it, this is no rebunk.

Error 404: Recalc not found.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I agree with Reaper.

It may not have been the intention, but a that aims to discard the two greatest feats of the verse for such minor reasons seems like just an attempt to discard the two greatest feats of the verse for any reason that can be found, without presenting any recalculation or alternative.

In Stolas' calculations, the clouds cover a large part of the sky as it rotates, and the air (which is the most abundant part of the cloud) is moved in the cloudless areas, so I don't think considering that makes much difference to the result. Regarding the rotation speed, I currently don't have the original stopwatch, but reviewing the scene, a rotation occurred in a short time, so there's nothing obvious to disprove the time/speed.

In the case of the MoL calculation, it's even stranger, since the perspective doesn't significantly alter the pixel scaling, which is done precisely at the center of the dispersion to approximate the planet's scale as closely as possible. And the appearance of clouds could very well be a simplification of the animation to avoid changing the model of Heaven's clouds (or the clouds may have been created by air dispersion, but that would have to be explained with phenomena, and I really think it was just a simplification).

These are things that don't significantly affect the calculations, but they're being used to rule it out. That may not have been your intention, and you might genuinely believe these details matter and justify ruling it out. But regardless, I disagree with the proposal.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Error 404: Recalc not found.

How much would the perspective really lower it by? Like 10-15% at worst? I don't agree with throwing it out for that reason...

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

How much would the perspective really lower it by? Like 10-15% at worst? I don't agree with throwing it out for that reason...

It doesn't shrink because the cloud dimensions are calculated using the dispersion medium, which is at a similar distance to the PoV as it is to Heaven.

Obviously it's not exactly the same, but there's no way to know the exact difference, and it doesn't affect the calculation to the point of being discarded.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah, I support the sentiment that it’s a negligible for our purposes nitpick. Margin of error should be insignificant. If you care for differences that small and want perfectionist attitude towards calcs, you should probably offer a recalc where you fix the issue if one is possible. If not, then it’s just a plausible approximation (all of our calcs are approximations, even destruction values we use are acknowledged to be such, overwhelming majority of calcs here use assumptions that approximate size of the object of reference).

It’s like nuking a Tier 3 calc because it was 2 pixels off to downgrade characters to Tier 9.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Big disagree, even just visually the shockwave alone was the size of a planet if not bigger, nuking the calc like that when this

Wrong

is also a factor makes me not really buy it