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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Well if you are saying the Imaginary is the superior form of concepts and where they originate from, then the Imaginary is CM1. But it's clear that Paths also have sway over the universe. And they don't have any of CM2's "weaknesses".

And no I disagree. Yes. Aftertaste did not change in its essence. The concept was simply allocated from Voracity to Elation (the same way Imaginary Energy is allocated from the Imaginary into Paths). It did not change in any way how it's perceived because it was simply stolen from one Path to another..

Aftertaste would exist either way as a concept within the Imaginary. It's just that the Paths took it under their domain. Even if it's "aftertaste-for-voracity" as you say, that concept is still taken from the Imaginary and "kept" under either Path's control and manifests in a way the Path/Aeon controls. The effects of the Paths are CM1 for the universe and distributed across its entirety because they are taken from the Imaginary that is CM1 in itself and has all the concepts already emerged. Idk if you get it I know I am not explaining it well but I can't put it into thoughts rn...
Yea… I don’t see how this addresses anything.

As for the Imaginary, what it refers to is extremely vague. Whether its CM1 or not is completely up for debate, it would simply possess the causal power of the Paths within it.. which is fine for CM2 ig. To say something is “contained” within the Imaginary is the same as saying normal matter is contained within it as being the ordered version of it, because Imaginary Space after all contains the potential for manifest all ordered matter.
 
Yea… I don’t see how this addresses anything.

As for the Imaginary, what it refers to is extremely vague. Whether its CM1 or not is completely up for debate, it would simply possess the causal power of the Paths within it.. which is fine for CM2 ig. To say something is “contained” within the Imaginary is the same as saying normal matter is contained within it as being the ordered version of it, because Imaginary Space after all contains the potential for manifest all ordered matter.
For something to be CM2 it needs to have CM2's directionality over the concepts it represents. Otherwise, it's just not it.

Besides, Voracity being affected and in turn every Voracity creature being affected, is already a CM1 feat. Whatever theories we each have about IE or the Paths are irrelevant. Universals don't need to affect every being in every way. Even if it's just Voracity creatures, it's enough.
 
For something to be CM2 it needs to have CM2's directionality over the concepts it represents. Otherwise, it's just not it.

Besides, Voracity being affected and in turn every Voracity creature being affected, is already a CM1 feat. Whatever theories we each have about IE or the Paths are irrelevant. Universals don't need to affect every being in every way. Even if it's just Voracity creatures, it's enough.
You can have all of this in CM2, lmao.
 
I mean tbf the entire path of voracity was changed by losing the concept of taste buds so taste buds being the particular of voracity changed the main body concept aka voracity. Thats type 2 not 1
 
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All you did was suggest the existence of some third-party concept to resolve the issue of contingency that way. You didnt address any of my other points.
What points? You said the the relationship between the Imaginary and Paths is causal. Which I didn't disagree with. Except, it doesn't do anything on its own. Even if the relationship Imaginary -> Paths is CM1, it doesn't mean Paths can't then in turn apply those concepts upon the universe.
I mean tbf the entire path of voracity was changed by losing the concept of taste buds so taste buds being the particular of voracity changed the main body concept aka voracity. Thats type 2 not 1
That's CM1 manipulation TOWARDS the Path. Because the Path is CM1 and applies CM1 concepts across the universe.
 
What points? You said the the relationship between the Imaginary and Paths is causal. Which I didn't disagree with. Except, it doesn't do anything on its own. Even if the relationship Imaginary -> Paths is CM1, it doesn't mean Paths can't then in turn apply those concepts upon the universe.

Cuz the concept of Paths is only immanent in what it predicates.

Well, firstly, to clarify, it’s not the concept-itself, but rather the concept as it is instantiated in the Path. So it is not Aftertaste-itself but rather Aftertaste across Voracity/Elation. Which is obvious, since it’s not as if Destruction only existed after Nanook’s ascension, but this is more of a preface.

And the concept itself is inter-related with the medium by which particulars relate back to, that is, Imaginary Energy. Since the Path is after all just a conglomerate of energy. So the destruction of the Path is consequently the destruction of the concept. Which is exactly what happens with Nous and Irontomb.

Irontomb directly affects the Path by affecting the Erudition constants within the cosmos, that is, intellectual beings themselves. Because Erudition is instantiated as the intellect of things and destroying that intellect leads go the destruction of Erudition-itself. Which is by-itself related to Lygus’ statement on how notions manifest themselves as dependent on the perception of the subjects. This of course being a reference to phenomenology in relation to quantum mechanics.

It’s also, ya know, further dependent on the energy itself to exist, as that is what is used to create the Path when an Aeon ascends. But Aeons themselves are also not the concept-itself, as seen when one dies and the Path remains (also the fact they can turn away from it). Nor is it a true universal, because the concept of a Path as said in the preface, isn’t the concept-itself, but only how it relates to entities within the Path. But to be CM1, you’d have to prove the concept of a Path exists independently of the Path itself, which is untenable since it is arises directly of the Imaginary itself; that is how Aeons attain power.

Also, for example, how Finality relates to Time. The former is the concept of the latter, but it is simultaneously bound to it. And we know this, because the “entirety” of Terminus’ power which is divided is also the “entirety” of the Path’s power itself. But uh, Terminus is bound by Time. Sure, it has as much control over it as one can achieve, but it is still pretty explicitly a temporal entity considering the “entirety” of it travels through it.
 
That's CM1 manipulation TOWARDS the Path. Because the Path is CM1 and applies CM1 concepts across the universe.
the particular changing the path… if it was cm1 then losing the concept of taste buds would mean voracity doesnt change the fact the entire path of voracity changed from losing a particular means its not independant from what its governing
 
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