How would these two Haxes interact?

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Touma Kamijou's Imagine Breaker and Kumagawa Misogi's All Fiction.

Could All Fiction erase Imagine Breaker? Profile says IB usually requires physical contact, but also has some minor passive effects. Would that block AF compleatly or just resist it's effects. AF just require's a thought and happens instantly. And what about Book Maker? Could it seal Imagine Breaker? These are questions that need to be answered.

Side note: The last time something resisted All Fiction, it went from being on all the time to having an ON/OFF switch.

 

[DexWald]

Even if AF would be capable to erase IB completely, it would still return back to the user.

World Rejector tried to do that. It managed to erase IB from the user and excel it to another world, and yet, IB appeared back to its owner.

I don't know if Bookmaker can seal IB though. Most likely yes.

 

[Malox1696]

No,erasing it won't work, world rejector was an exception cause it start to erase from inwards to outward and cause it has the same nature as IB so IB can't negate it, it would just negate the effect of all fiction, same for book maker

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I would say All Fiction would give IB an on off switch, but IB would be able to nullify All Fiction's effect but not the ability itself. Book Maker would dead ass seal Touma, its on like 3 layers of nullifying resistence

 

[DontTalkDT]

If the ability is used on IB breaker itself it is basically just power vs power, where the ability that has more power behind it wins.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

If the ability is used on IB breaker itself it is basically just power vs power, where the ability that has more power behind it wins.

I feel like thats sorta against the spirit of Hax abilities, which are meant to subvert power levels.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I feel like thats sorta against the spirit of Hax abilities, which are meant to subvert power levels.

Hax doesn't subvert power levels. They circumvent the normal stats, but if it is hax vs resistace against the hax or hax vs power nullification that works on the hax, it is just power vs power, as the mechanism that made them ignore power only makes it circumvent normal durability.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I just started watching Index, so I'm not sure of Imagine Breakers's full limits, hence why I'm making this thread in the first place, but All Fiction has only ever shown one real weakness, and that was the inability to compleatly erase things/abilities with strong emotional attachments. So I can't begin to guess at which is more powerful.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I just started watching Index, so I'm not sure of Imagine Breakers's full limits, hence why I'm making this thread in the first place, but All Fiction has only ever shown one real weakness, and that was the inability to compleatly erase things/abilities with strong emotional attachments. So I can't begin to guess at which is more powerful.

that weakness was later removed when Ajimu gave Kumagawa Hundred Gauntlets so his skill was complete and would not deteriorate

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I must need to reread the manga, because I keep hearing things I apperently missed somehow. Most notably,

What is Hundered Gauntlets?!?!?!

I know it's Kumagawa's first minus, but aside form that nothing. It was either never explained or I'm dumb/blind.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Hundred Gauntlets is the skill Kumagawa stole from Ajimu to forge All Fiction. Hundred Gauntlets was a skill that reverses causality, but Kumagawa's personality transformed the skill into All Fiction and made it a part of himself.

To paraphrase what Ajimu described it as, If Hundred Gauntlets is a skill that asks and reverses "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Then Kumagawa took that ability and ate both the egg and the chicken. That, is All Fiction. I think it is explained on Kumagawa's profile

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright cool thanks. That clears shit up pretty good. The Minus starts out as Hundered Gauntlets, which reverses causality, but then Kumagawa get's a hold of it and changes it so it just erases causality instead, thus All Ficion. And Book Maker was his actual first Minus which seals people down to his level, abilities and all. This just proves that I'm good at catching the broad strokes, but compleatly miss the little details. Also, after scaning his profile, Hundered Gauntlets is nevered mentioned once.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

This sca on the profile talks about hundred gauntlets

 

[TheAbsoluteOne]

Erasing imagine breaker is a hard question, but sealing it is a 100% yes. Touma has stated himself in the very first chapter of the novel that imagine breaker is only in his right hand, so magic can affect any other part of his body. Once kumagawa hits touma with bookmaker, its over.

 

[Malox1696]

No it's not, even the magic gods tried it but they can't, it will negate any attempt to seal it and if destroyed it would reappear sooner or later, it's the backup of the original world subconsciously created by anyone who has the power to change the world

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I feel like Kumagawa could seal Touma if he hit anywhere but his hand, but then Imagine Breaker would immediately take effect and break the seal (it'd probably still hurt like a tsundere, though). If Kumagawa tried to make it "nothing", it would negate it passively...

Hundred Gauntlets...

Causality Reversal...

****.....

 

[Malox1696]

I feel like Kumagawa could seal Touma if he hit anywhere but his hand, but then Imagine Breaker would immediately take effect and break the seal (it'd probably still hurt like a tsundere, though). If Kumagawa tried to make it "nothing", it would negate it passively...
Hundred Gauntlets...

Causality Reversal...

****.....

IT'S IB VS AF not touma vs kumagawa

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I know, I'm trying to figure out how it would affect each Minus passively.

Has IB ever negated Causality manip?

 

[Malox1696]

IB restored the "world" after it got erased

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Was that Othinus that did that?

 

[Malox1696]

she used IB to do that as she can only create "new phase", she could create an identical one but it would not be the "same"

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Kumagawa would need to simply pierce him through another body part... then Bookmaker stops working. Kamijou has been healed before by magic, it extends across his body before reaching his arm, then it just gets negated. And even then, by the words of Misaki(if my memory is right), the top mind controller in all Academy City, she can't affect Touma's head the normal way, and even after finding some sort of loophole, he just needs to casually touch his head for whatever reason.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Not to mention the time IB punched Gungnir, and I DOUBT AF has more power than Gungnir.

 

[fandom_1cheapskate]

what about Astas sword or Teachs devil fruit just adding in more power nullification to the not fire

 

[Hizack123]

what about Astas sword or Teachs devil fruit just adding in more power nullification to the not fire

They are not in same power level that for sure, IB shown to Null low 2-C attack

Asta sword only null small town level so far.

And blackbeard powernull has only show to work on Devil Fruit so far.

 

[fandom_1cheapskate]

I can see that but the yami yami is stated to like darkness absorb anything including devil fruit powers implying that devil fruit nullification is a bonus not what the fruit is meant to nullify it was stated in another thread that it can cancel out/absorb any energy based attacks and even actual pain and physical strength. but I do agree with you about astas sword no idea the extent of that thing. just wanted to say that people think teaches null is limited to devil fruits when it has been shown not to be just devil fruits. the extent of what it can null/absorb we don't know yet but could be theoretically infinite as darkness swallows everything.

 

[Hizack123]

I just don't wanna wank it you know.

 

[Andrew48]

AF can't delete things with too much emotional weight, which is what IB is made from. So AF is powerless in front of IB, book maker won't work either, since you can't make it shittier, Touma is not the source of IB, everything in existence is the source of IB. So you need to hit everyone and everything with Book maker.

 

[Andrew48]

To clarify, IB is the crystalization of hope and fear of all those who could change the world, but fear that the change they cause could be wrong. So their subconsious desire for a reset button all gathered together to form IB, which is meant to offer the ultimate peace of mind, that the world could be fixed and reset as much as they need. It just so happen, that it also gives the wielder true freedom, liberation from all karma within Toaru verse.

Touma just so happen to be IB's wielder.

 

[UmbryTiddlywink]

All Fiction can delete stuff with emotional weight. Only the deteriorated All Fiction couldn't do that.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Still, IB has been confirmed working on an artifact that stabilizes the powers of a High 1-C being, which is _faaaaar_ above the proposed/possible highest output of All Fiction.

Touma literally punched Gungnir into nothing and got away with it having just 2 broken fingers.

 

[Hizack123]

All Fiction can delete stuff with emotional weight. Only the deteriorated All Fiction couldn't do that.

You saying that all fiction can erase Concept?

I though it non canon.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He means stuff that hold strong emotion, like really dear memories to someone or an actual person with feelings and thoughts.

Concepts are another thing entirely, depends how you interpret him erasing stuff like his presence, and colors, among others.

 

[fandom_1cheapskate]

How about Machina's Midgard volsulgna saga, this hax can erase anything with a history by punching it, how well does that stack up?

 

[Andrew48]

Don't know, upto the author, when it come to pure conceptual (erase vs erase), it is just word of god, since there is no example of any power succeeding with it. Though, IB will likely come back as long as its source still exist. But if you ideally erase all regret, self doubt, and restrint from every thinking being in existence (including yourself) and then erase IB, it probably wouldn't come back. (maybe)

 

[Andrew48]

The real issue with IB and WR in toaru verse, was that no one could gave up on it, since they offered salvation. Since no higher power can deny their own desire, they can't destroy IB or WR. Even toaru highest tier people, Full power Othinus says she want to gave up past worlds, but she still couldn't resist the temptation of being able to go back, to return, and her own regret; so IB can't vanish or be erased.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Well, beyond that desire, Othinus said that IB would very likely simply go back to Othinus herself if she simply erased it all beyond herself. I doubt that measn IB can't be destroyed or erased, but it's obvious it can go on and continue existing without a real care for everything else. IB doesn't need reality to keep existing for it to exist as well.

 

[Andrew48]

Well, IB is the back up of EVERYTHING, just in case that reality crumbled because of the magic gods, and they forgot how reality is suppose to work. So, I suppose, it being the only thing that can exist with exception to everything else, is the purpose of its creation.