Immeasurable speed removal

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ploz hammered the nail in the thread yes.

 

[KingTempest]

Here's my question.

For S = D/T, What would moving D without T qualify as if this is removed?
It's definitely not infinite, so it would be something else. What would it be?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Here's my question.

For S = D/T, What would moving D without T qualify as if this is removed?
It's definitely not infinite, so it would be something else. What would it be?

U are asking if there was no time? Like a timeless void?

If what I are asking is what rating u would get from loving in a place that has no time then the answer is that u get nothing, since there is not time to beging with so u cant be faster than something that is not there

 

[Agnaa]

I also think Immeasurable speed should stay.

 

[Darksmash]

I do partially agree with this
Moving along the temporal axis is relatively faster than infinite speed on just 3 spatial dimensions,but the movement speed across the temporal axis itself might not even be Infinite
I would vouch for immeasurable getting replaced entirely by something like "non linear speed"

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Here's my question.

For S = D/T, What would moving D without T qualify as if this is removed?
It's definitely not infinite, so it would be something else. What would it be?

S = D/T where T = 0 I'm presuming you're talking about was agreed to be infinite on this wiki, then a timeless void thread was made to argue that characters can't be that level with timeless voids because t =/= 0 in them but rather undefined, I disagree with this principle 100% but this is currently how the wiki treats it. For now if your guy moves somewhere in 0 time and it's specifically stated then it's treated as Infinite here I believe.

 

[KingTempest]

Yep.
I was planning on adding a verse that had that qualification in the near future. What would that fit as if not immeasurable?

Also, how many hundreds to thousands of profiles would need to be thought about for Immeasurable afterwards?
It's not just like "removal", they would have to have a CRT for everybody who qualified for Immeasurable or at least who had it on their page.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Man everyone on this thread was like Its time for an all out attack

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yep.
I was planning on adding a verse that had that qualification in the near future. What would that fit as if not immeasurable?

Also, how many hundreds to thousands of profiles would need to be thought about for Immeasurable afterwards?
It's not just like "removal", they would have to have a CRT for everybody who qualified for Immeasurable or at least who had it on their page.

Short answer: many

 

[KingTempest]

S = D/T where T = 0 I'm presuming you're talking about was agreed to be infinite on this wiki, then a timeless void thread was made to argue that characters can't be that level with timeless voids because t =/= 0 in them but rather undefined, I disagree with this principle 100% but this is currently how the wiki treats it. For now if your guy moves somewhere in 0 time and it's specifically stated then it's treated as Infinite here I believe.

Only Infinite -_- Damn. Thanks for explaining though.

But that's weird.

Infinite is moving an infinite distance in a finite amount of time.
Moving in a timeless void is moving whatever in no time.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

My argumentative prowess has become so great that people have started agreeing with my reasoning before I've even arrived.

It's all green grass from here, fellows.

I do. And I did.

You've returned from retirement? Do they all float where you went?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

You've returned from retirement? Do they all float where you went?

I've been un-retired for the last several months now. I came back around April or so.

Though, whether or not I plan on staying for much longer is not something I can say yet.

EDIT: You even saw the recent revision thread I posted. How are you only just now realizing that I'm back?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I see, welcome back to the realm of the unfloating.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Man everyone on this thread was like Its time for an all out attack

"Quiver in fear!"

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah no, no way we're removing Immeasurable speed. Ploz and KingPin hit the nail on the head right where I want it.

 

[KLOL506]

The guy from Bloodstained Curse of the Moon who accidentally killed himself by running so fast he collided with his own body in the future and exploded proves that Immeasurable Speed exists.

Jesus Christ, something like that actually exists?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yup, it's also proof Immeasurable speed and Acausality are two different things.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Disagree FRA ngl

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Yeah, for now, I disagree too FRA

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just woke up, gonna respond King's comment and the ones we other arguments.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Why is Immeasurable Speed breaking the speed formula a problem? That's literally the entire point of Immeasurable Speed: it's speed that cannot be measured/calculated using the S=D/T formula. If you want to remove Immeasurable Speed because of this, then you might as well push for Irrelevant Speed to be axed as well.

Because it's litteraly a double-standard we're doing. Timeless Voids have a whole note about not qualifying as speed BECAUSE they break the speed formula, yet we say that Immeasurable somehow means better than any speed based on absolutely nothing.

In addition to this, not falling under a formula don't mean you're the strongest version of it. Besides the "punching hole in space-time" example which illustrate it, a more ridiculous example would be something like "Mind Control can't be calculated using heat formula, therefore it is the highest form of heat". As idiotic as it is, Immeasurable speed follows the same logic with time travel instead of mind control or space-time hole.

I also think Irrelevant speed is wrong, so it doesn't go against my points.

We don't have proof of it because fiction works very differently from real life. Information and matter are incapable of going beyond the speed of light IRL, but fiction doesn't care about that in most cases. By default, real life physics don't hold in fiction unless the verse in question explicitly follows physics by the letter - otherwise, we might as well say that nothing can be FTL in fiction because nothing can be FTL in real life.

Fiction isn't real life yeah. But fiction is based on real life; and this wiki pay attention to it.
Hell, most of our fundamental pages had huges revision made especially to fit actual theories instead of making things up: Tiering System, Conceptual Manipulation, everything about higher dimensions, etc...
So saying "lol let's ignore theoretical stuff because fiction is weird" goes against most of what the wiki has been trying to do with its most recent updates.
Also saying it is "real life physics" when it's about theorical stuff in general is wrong. We constantly use theoretical physics (MWI, Hilbert Space, Cardinals, etc...) and there's no reason to simplify it as "it's real life which isn't fiction so it isn't relevant".

Are you seriously using theoretical physics to debate your point? First of all, as I said, fiction is not real life. What holds for us may not hold for fiction, and in fact, when it comes to physics, it usually doesn't.

Like I explained, theoretical physics being equated to "real life" is kinda wrong. And yeah I'm seriously using theoretical physics on a wiki using MWI, higher dimensions, causality, time travel, etc... constantly; what a shock.
Are you seriously using theoretical physics to debate your point? First of all, as I said, fiction is not real life. What holds for us may not hold for fiction, and in fact, when it comes to physics, it usually doesn't.

Secondly, you're basically arguing that there is no difference between FTL and Immeasurable Speed, in which case you're implying that everything after lightspeed in the speed tiering system should be merged with Immeasurable. Do you think that people would be okay with the idea that Goku is as fast as Alduin? Because that's what this point amounts to, whether you realize it or not.

This one is really putting words in my mouth, with a fallacy at the end.

I'm saying time travel through speed can be done at any speed depending of the work; and you really just need to take any work depicting it to see that it's how it works. Flash series had the dude traveling through time with a speed not that high iirc (although I have little memories of this particular show); Superman time travelled through speed by going around Earth fast, any good ol' time slip, Scooby Doo time travelled through speed via FTL stuff, etc... and never was this portrayed as a speed somehow higher than everything and all; it's Time Travel.

I don't care about who's faster between Goku and Alduin. I also don't care how many people think Saitama is stronger than Goku, if Demonbane is thought as an omnikiller or if my fav verse gets stomped by whatever dude. I'm debatting a rule, and if a character previously thought to be infinitely faster than the other end up being the same speed or slower, then it's just that people were wrong.

I don't see how it would be just Time Travel. As far as I am aware, Time Travel is treated as the ability to fold spacetime so that you can go to the past or to the future. Immeasurable Speed wouldn't need that- they could just move across time as if it were just another spatial axis and freely go forward and backward in time. It's similar to the logic behind why Infinite Speed isn't just Teleportation: the latter is specifically folding space to cross virtually any distance; whereas the former is a velocity which is sufficient to cross any amount of distance, even an infinite amount.

Time Travel definition: "Time travel is the concept of movement between certain points in time, analogous to movement between different points in space by an object or a person". So yeah Immeasurable speed definition IS time travel definition.

So you just explained that the difference between Time Travel and Immeasurable is the prior's definition, but associated to the other one; which add to my point of Immeasurable being wanked time travel.

I mean, sure, but I don't see what this is supposed to prove. In fact, I can throw it back on you and claim that Infinite Speed would suffer from this as well, since if you are infinitely fast, the cause and effect of your actions would coincide. Would you want to nix Infinite Speed because of that?

The part is litteraly about demonstrating that everything supposed to be so "Immeasurable-only" easily fall under others powers; proving that our made-up speed (It's important to remember that we base ourselves on absolutely nothing but "idk man, it looks like it could be a thing") disappearing wouldn't be a problem with how we treat stuff; since like I said prior, a lot of this is double-standard coupled with baseless ideas.

We litteraly treat Gae Bolg or Apfel Schießen has something separated from speed and both are causality-reversal attacks which really are just a thing being thrown hard (although Gae Bolg has its curse but meh).

Also since this part isn't the one supposed to prove it is wrong (only that what we use as justifications can be put on others category easily once I explained why Immeasurable is BS) , your argument for Infinite speed don't work (not to mention that cause and effect don't really have a form of "latency", so it really wouldn't make any problem).

I'm pretty sure this is how we already do things in most cases. Moving on...

I don't think stuff like what you're describing here or the example you gave is treated as Immeasurable Speed in the first place.

It is. Someone also said that it was a criteria in one of the previous Immeasurable thread and nobody raised a single objection to it.

What? Immeasurable Speed isn't reducible to just "faster than infinity." Immeasurable Speed, by its very nature, cannot be given a speed value at all because it breaks the S=D/T formula, as I said above. I don't think being "infinitely faster than infinity" is something that cannot be quantified in terms of speed.

That's not what I said. Like I explained, I just took arguments used for Immeasurable. I'm not reducing anything, it's just a little part used among many in the threads about determining what Immeasurable is.

I disagree strongly with removing Immeasurable Speed. Your arguments don't make sense to me and (no offense) seem to ignore common sense.

If ignoring common sense mean "not basing ourselves on something we made-up, which also happen to be unsupported by fiction and theoretical physics; which we use for fundamental parts of our system"; then I'm willing to ignore it.

What don't make sense to me is the idea that somehow, going against our own rules, doing double-standard or ignoring any actual theories all for something made up with definitions which don't even justify it is considered legit.

Even fiction don't support it as explained above, and some examples supposed to "prove it" don't do so; since they depend on Immeasurable being right in the first place.

 

[manu_zarri]

Because it's litteraly a double-standard we're doing. Timeless Voids have a whole note about not qualifying as speed BECAUSE they break the speed formula, yet we say that Immeasurable somehow means better than any speed based on absolutely nothing.

Inaccessible speed isn't used here because of another motivation.
There was already a theard on this motivation

Fiction isn't real life yeah. But fiction is based on real life; and this wiki pay attention to it.
Hell, most of our fundamental pages had huges revision made especially to fit actual theories instead of making things up: Tiering System, Conceptual Manipulation, everything about higher dimensions, etc...
So saying "lol let's ignore theoretical stuff because fiction is weird" goes against most of what the wiki has been trying to do with its most recent updates.
Also saying it is "real life physics" when it's about theorical stuff in general is wrong. We constantly use theoretical physics (MWI, Hilbert Space, Cardinals, etc...) and there's no reason to simplify it as "it's real life which isn't fiction so it isn't relevant".

The fact is: all ruels aren't really applicable,FTL can hardly be measured. and if we use the many rules of speed we would get common problems. in speed tiering, especially in 3 speeds, you avoid using certain rules. moreover, if we want to make it clear, even the infinite speed is unreal.

Like I explained, theoretical physics being equated to "real life" is kinda wrong. And yeah I'm seriously using theoretical physics on a wiki using MWI, higher dimensions, causality, time travel, etc... constantly; what a shock.
Are you seriously using theoretical physics to debate your point? First of all, as I said, fiction is not real life. What holds for us may not hold for fiction, and in fact, when it comes to physics, it usually doesn't.

I have already explained it above, the wiki does not use theoretical physics in all possible applications, due to problems with various laws such as Newton's law of universal gravitation

This one is really putting words in my mouth, with a fallacy at the end.

I'm saying time travel through speed can be done at any speed depending of the work; and you really just need to take any work depicting it to see that it's how it works. Flash series had the dude traveling through time with a speed not that high iirc (although I have little memories of this particular show); Superman time travelled through speed by going around Earth fast, any good ol' time slip, Scooby Doo time travelled through speed via FTL stuff, etc... and never was this portrayed as a speed somehow higher than everything and all; it's Time Travel.

I don't care about who's faster between Goku and Alduin. I also don't care how many people think Saitama is stronger than Goku, if Demonbane is thought as an omnikiller or if my fav verse gets stomped by whatever dude. I'm debatting a rule, and if a character previously thought to be infinitely faster than the other end up being the same speed or slower, then it's just that people were wrong.

Im not a DC expert, but i just know flash was using the 4D to move in past,present and future. it's time travel in a linear time (the 4D for tier 2) by Movement. that means it's not an hax.

Time Travel definition: "Time travel is the concept of movement between certain points in time, analogous to movement between different points in space by an object or a person". So yeah Immeasurable speed definition IS time travel definition.

So you just explained that the difference between Time Travel and Immeasurable is the prior's definition, but associated to the other one; which add to my point of Immeasurable being wanked time travel.

This is really bad... I already explained Flash "Time Travel" the basically time travel is via hax, and usually have problem because it's not linear (example Dragon Ball time machine). the Immeasurable speed is TRAVELING with MOVEMENT in LINEAR TIME.

The part is litteraly about demonstrating that everything supposed to be so "Immeasurable-only" easily fall under others powers; proving that our made-up speed (It's important to remember that we base ourselves on absolutely nothing but "idk man, it looks like it could be a thing") disappearing wouldn't be a problem with how we treat stuff; since like I said prior, a lot of this is double-standard coupled with baseless ideas.

We litteraly treat Gae Bolg or Apfel Schießen has something separated from speed and both are causality-reversal attacks which really are just a thing being thrown hard (although Gae Bolg has its curse but meh).

Also since this part isn't the one supposed to prove it is wrong (only that what we use as justifications can be put on others category easily once I explained why Immeasurable is BS) , your argument for Infinite speed don't work (not to mention that cause and effect don't really have a form of "latency", so it really wouldn't make any problem).

Also, i don't know how this is connectable at Immeasurable speed, but I already explained that isn't really applicable, since it could lead to problems in the narrative with other rules. being that Speed Tiering in fiction is a very different thing than in real life..

It is. Someone also said that it was a criteria in one of the previous Immeasurable thread and nobody raised a single objection to it.

I don't know, i think it need be changed. maybe the profile is old.

That's not what I said. Like I explained, I just took arguments used for Immeasurable. I'm not reducing anything, it's just a little part used among many in the threads about determining what Immeasurable is.

in fact it is expressed badly in theard. it's actually not just faster than infinity

If ignoring common sense mean "not basing ourselves on something we made-up, which also happen to be unsupported by fiction and theoretical physics; which we use for fundamental parts of our system"; then I'm willing to ignore it.

What don't make sense to me is the idea that somehow, going against our own rules, doing double-standard or ignoring any actual theories all for something made up with definitions which don't even justify it is considered legit.

Even fiction don't support it as explained above, and some examples supposed to "prove it" don't do so; since they depend on Immeasurable being right in the first place.

What you are doing is wrong, you apply rules in fiction when there is no need. as I explained above, if we use all the theories and rules we would create problems upon problems.

being that both Immeasurable and Irrelevant are used and applied in fiction. they should be ok.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Hell, most of our fundamental pages had huges revision made especially to fit actual theories instead of making things up: Tiering System, Conceptual Manipulation, everything about higher dimensions, etc...
So saying "lol let's ignore theoretical stuff because fiction is weird" goes against most of what the wiki has been trying to do with its most recent updates.

Let's not go in this direction, please. This thread is turning out to be controversial enough. The last thing it needs is to spiral off into a heated discussion about whether or not our recent system revisions were a good idea.

Which it will, if this particular line of argument is allowed to persist.

 

[QuasiYuri]

What you are doing is wrong, you apply rules in fiction when there is no need. as I explained above, if we use all the theories and rules we would create problems upon problems.

being that both Immeasurable and Irrelevant are used and applied in fiction. they should be ok.

Why are all your points are based on the idea that I said every rules should be applied when it's not even remotely near of what I explained? Like it's litteraly not even part of my arguments.

The problem is that Immeasurable and Irrelevant speed "rules" are things we invented basing ourselves on nothing but "eh, let's say it works".

Thing is, nothing ever supported our invention. It's the same as deciding a new tier based on conceptual trees because they are different from mathematics and we think it sounds p well to say that they would be above.

Since fiction is also a magic realm not based on any theoretical stuff in the world according to the opposite points; we can just use it to show that it still doesn't make Immeasurable speed right:

You can take Sonic, Scooby-Doo, Marvel, LoL, Space Dandy, Time Slip tropes, etc... and in none of these cases going through time via speed alone is seen as something as high as we use it (also checked the Flash series, and dude isn't Immeasurable by our standard).

You basically aren't answering the point raised at all.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Let's not go in this direction, please. This thread is turning out to be controversial enough. The last thing it needs is to spiral off into a heated discussion about whether or not our recent system revisions were a good idea.

Which it will, if this particular line of argument is allowed to persist.

Problem is that we can't really just have half of our system being based on something and another being based on an opposite line of thought tho.

We either decide to use actual stuff (which fiction do since its creation) or decide to invent whatever we like; but doing both isn't helping anything.

If we always avoid discussing the foundations, the whole structure can't become anything but a joke.

 

[manu_zarri]

Why are all your points are based on the idea that I said every rules should be applied when it's not even remotely near of what I explained? Like it's litteraly not even part of my arguments.

The problem is that Immeasurable and Irrelevant speed "rules" are things we invented basing ourselves on nothing but "eh, let's say it works".

Thing is, nothing ever supported our invention. It's the same as deciding a new tier based on conceptual trees because they are different from mathematics and we think it sounds p well to say that they would be above.

Since fiction is also a magic realm not based on any theoretical stuff in the world according to the opposite points; we can just use it to show that it still doesn't make Immeasurable speed right:

You can take Sonic, Scooby-Doo, Marvel, LoL, Space Dandy, Time Slip tropes, etc... and in none of these cases going through time via speed alone is seen as something as high as we use it (also checked the Flash series, and dude isn't Immeasurable by our standard).

You basically aren't answering the point raised at all.

actually I'm doing it, because you're trying to apply the rules of physics, when it would only create problems. Trying to enforce a law would only cause a mess as most of the laws are connected. Furthermore, immeasurable speed is poorly described both with the speed formula and in words.

the real description is "Time travel (which can be linear or probable depending on size and uses) through movement" travel through time movement is not considered hax but speed.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I'm pretty sure a lot of verses treat Time Travel via speed as... just Time Travel.

 

[manu_zarri]

I'm pretty sure a lot of verses treat Time Travel via speed as... just Time Travel.

hmm in my favorite verses i don't have any really good examples. so i will use Flash, from what I know, flash using the 4D you could move in the past, present and future linear with the movement

 

[DatOneWeeb]

In addition to this, not falling under a formula don't mean you're the strongest version of it. Besides the "punching hole in space-time" example which illustrate it, a more ridiculous example would be something like "Mind Control can't be calculated using heat formula, therefore it is the highest form of heat". As idiotic as it is, Immeasurable speed follows the same logic with time travel instead of mind control or space-time hole.

I also think Irrelevant speed is wrong, so it doesn't go against my points.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

hmm in my favorite verses i don't have any really good examples. so i will use Flash, from what I know, flash using the 4D you could move in the past, present and future linear with the movement

Flash afaik is "MFTL+, Immeasurable when running throught time" due to Speed Force. But this sounds more like Time Travel to me.

 

[manu_zarri]

Flash afaik is "MFTL+, Immeasurable when running throught time" due to Speed Force. But this sounds more like Time Travel to me.

Yes time travel, with your movement, that's classificed Speed and not hax.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Actually the previous threads about Immeasurable agreed that "[x] speed, Immeasurable when running through time" is just Time travel. That's why Superman lost it.

Flash is just yet another double-standard we have for no reason.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Damn, Ploz came in here like a wrecking ball. His points were banger.

Also,

In addition to this, not falling under a formula don't mean you're the strongest version of it. Besides the "punching hole in space-time" example which illustrate it

Is my refute gonna be ignored or...

 

[QuasiYuri]

actually I'm doing it, because you're trying to apply the rules of physics, when it would only create problems. Trying to enforce a law would only cause a mess as most of the laws are connected. Furthermore, immeasurable speed is poorly described both with the speed formula and in words.

the real description is "Time travel (which can be linear or probable depending on size and uses) through movement" travel through time movement is not considered hax but speed.

We already apply actual theories, denying one because it is theoretical physic stuff is not even an argument. It's not even about enforcing a law but more removing an invention which come from nowhere.

And where did you get that so-called "real description"? I litteraly copy-pasted what was actually said about it not to have an argument like "you're distording the words said"; and it seems to be what you're doing here.

 

[QuasiYuri]

False Analogy. If punching holes in space-time were to be High 3-A, it would be via effecting the 4-D Space-Time Continuum, not because "You can't nuke Space-Time via TNT lel"

What you're saying is the point I'm making.

How saying the same as me is supposed to be a counter-argument exactly?

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

I'm pretty sure your OG point was "because you can't measure it via destruction" but okay

 

[Greenshifter]

We’re confusing Flashes here. Yuri’s talking about the Flash from the CW show (I think) while everyone else is talking about the comics. Comics Flashes have multiple stuff that support the immeasurable speed rating rather than just lol movement through time via speed. CW Flash is complicated since Barry can time travel by going mach 2 (and the Flash from the DCEU which is canon to the CW does so by going FTL) yet not always when doing so, indicating that it is hax. However, since the CW might become more comics-accurate in the later seasons. We could end up with problems like CW Barry pulling feats that comics Wally does that currently qualify for immeasurable speed. On another note, Wally is practically the only person that has “immeasurable when running through time”. Which I’m gonna be honest seems like a weird compromise where we say that Wally is only immeasurable when traveling through time in order to avoid it scaling to other DC characters since characters like Super Sonic could still get/have gotten regular immeasurable via movement through time. There’s also a direct statement that Wally wasn’t even hitting lightspeed when already traveling through time (yet lightspeed is a limit to higher dimensional characters in DC) and Superman reacted to Barry and Wally running through time, I used to take this that Barry and Wally would be going at a finite speed relative to themselves but immeasurable to observers, but considering Yuri’s argument of characters like Superman being capable of reacting to time travel without needing immeasurable speed, this might just straight up be a finite speed feat. The only redeeming quality would be that they needed to cross infinite multiverses IIRC but that only happened after they went past the speed of light. So while I’m not convinced yet by Yuri, I can see his argument for saying that immeasurable speed doesn’t exist. I could see someone being immeasurable for seeing all of time at once since time itself could be uncountably infinite though.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Literally no one agrees with Yuri, can we just close this thread and move along with our day?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Because it's litteraly a double-standard we're doing. Timeless Voids have a whole note about not qualifying as speed BECAUSE they break the speed formula, yet we say that Immeasurable somehow means better than any speed based on absolutely nothing.

In addition to this, not falling under a formula don't mean you're the strongest version of it. Besides the "punching hole in space-time" example which illustrate it, a more ridiculous example would be something like "Mind Control can't be calculated using heat formula, therefore it is the highest form of heat". As idiotic as it is, Immeasurable speed follows the same logic with time travel instead of mind control or space-time hole.

No one ever said or remotely implied this, though? We are explicitly talking about speed which exceeds, and thus can't be measured, by the usual S = D/T equation, which is very different from simply moving in a realm where neither distance or time have any effect. You are probably well-aware of this caveat, yes? "Lacking something ≠ Being superior to it" and all that.

Fiction isn't real life yeah. But fiction is based on real life; and this wiki pay attention to it.
Hell, most of our fundamental pages had huges revision made especially to fit actual theories instead of making things up: Tiering System, Conceptual Manipulation, everything about higher dimensions, etc...
So saying "lol let's ignore theoretical stuff because fiction is weird" goes against most of what the wiki has been trying to do with its most recent updates.
Also saying it is "real life physics" when it's about theorical stuff in general is wrong. We constantly use theoretical physics (MWI, Hilbert Space, Cardinals, etc...) and there's no reason to simplify it as "it's real life which isn't fiction so it isn't relevant".

All of this is pretty much false equivalency piled ontop of false equivalency. Cardinality is a concept that we utilize because it is quite literally one of the most basic building blocks of mathematics, and the only rigorous way for we to treat the size of a given collection, so it is by no means just "theoretical physics" as you claim. Not to mention that we don't even use MWI or Hilbert Spaces (At least not directly, for the latter) in our Tiering System anyway, so.

You also seem to be ignoring the arguments PlozAlcahaz made up there: Yes, we do ignore physics when it comes to principles that fiction casually breaks 99% of the time, and this is basically the reason for why we don't apply Kinetic Energy Calculations to any character that moves fast, unless the verse portrays their speed as having destructive effects.

In this case, the principle being broken by fiction is the fact that causality itself (As well as the division between the past and future of an event) is defined by the concept of a "light cone," which, as the name and definition suggests, is pretty intrinsically related to the Speed of Light, so you could very well say that it is also the Speed of Causality, and signals traveling faster than that would just defy cause and effect as a result. If you want to apply that to the basic system of the wiki, then you might as well give Causality Manipulation to everyone who goes FTL in fiction, based on something that simply doesn't happen in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Like I explained, theoretical physics being equated to "real life" is kinda wrong. And yeah I'm seriously using theoretical physics on a wiki using MWI, higher dimensions, causality, time travel, etc... constantly; what a shock.

We don't use MWI in our Tiering System, and higher dimensions are a common enough occurence in fiction for them to be addressed by it, not to mention that they aren't even "theoretical" or anything of the sort: They are just the natural result of defining a set with a given number of variables, and it's actually pretty damn easy to model higher-dimensional spaces and see how they behave, at least from a purely algebraic perspective.

I'm saying time travel through speed can be done at any speed depending of the work; and you really just need to take any work depicting it to see that it's how it works. Flash series had the dude traveling through time with a speed not that high iirc (although I have little memories of this particular show); Superman time travelled through speed by going around Earth fast, any good ol' time slip, Scooby Doo time travelled through speed via FTL stuff, etc... and never was this portrayed as a speed somehow higher than everything and all; it's Time Travel.

That's nice, and thus we make an exception for these verses, while keeping them exempt from the actual rule.

Most of them don't really align with what Immeasurable Speed is centered at, anyway: That being, you being able to move through time and space as easily as you would be able to move your hand across three-dimensional space, or something that would produce similar effects: An entity who lives on a higher plane where the whole universe is just a book, for example; you obviously wouldn't be able to apply the speed equation to them if they treat time and space like the numbers of a page they can flip at will. Time Travel is a subset of Immeasurable Speed, not the main thing.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Literally no one agrees with Yuri, can we just close this thread and move along with our day?

^^^^^^^THIS

The whole point of this discussion is ridiculous and literally no one agrees with OP, someone should just close this mess and move on like nothing happened.