Is Metapotence a legitimate power within the confines of this Wiki? I'm trying to prove a point to Torlikoff and he wishes to see the general consensu

[SwathingDegenera777]

So I was arguing with my pal Torlikoff, I was attempting to figure out a legitimate, non-EGD means by which to resist the allure of omnipotence, or in AHBS (Actual Human Being Speak), how to not be utterly ctrl+alt+deleted by a peep such as god.


Now, in this post I am attempting not to see as to if the consensus is that Metapotence can counter Omnipotence, I am attempting to prove to Torlikoff that Metapotence is a valid and merited power that is not complete bullshit.


P.S., if you are wondering as to what my theory was when I approached Torstan, I stated that. Should souls be parts of God, and God attempts to overwrite such, then the soul could whip out it's metapotential and sanslogically resist God's attempt to otherwise overwrite,erase, or reintegrate with this portion of their being. Citing this comic in particular...


So yeah... Post away please!

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Metapotence feels like someone took the "Meta" prefix used to make things seem stronger than they are and the "potence" suffix used to make things seem stronger than they are and used them to make a single world.

Not gonna lie, no matter what your definition of "Metapotence" is, it can't be above Omnipotence.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Omnipotence was debunked by the gnostics over a thousand years ago and people still try to push the idea of anything being omnipotent.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Metapotence feels like someone took the "Meta" prefix used to make things seem stronger than they are and the "potence" suffix used to make things seem stronger than they are and used them to make a single world.
Not gonna lie, no matter what your definition of "Metapotence" is, it can't be above Omnipotence.

I comprehend what you have just said, but the main reason behind this post is the existence of a Metapotence on the powerlisting wikia. Now, a true god would too bear metapotence, but should the souls of mortals be portions of this true god, as is summed up by the comic appearing on the powerlisting page for this such ability. In essence, it would ultimately become an unstoppable force vs. unstoppable force debate. As you have two equally unstoppable forces with logic altering abilities contesting one another...

https://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Metapotence

is the link I speak in reference to

 

[Torlikoff]

Why did you post such a long title dude?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Zach can you not push for your religion to be considered everywhere, especially when it's not relevant?

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Zach can you not push for your religion to be considered everywhere, especially when it's not relevant?

I wish not to diverge from the stated topic. But they bear a religion? Is it one made by them or one they merely follow?

 

[Wokistan]

No, that's not a legit power here. This seems identical to omnipotence except you are claiming it is arbitrarily "better" for some reason.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We don't use Powerlisting Wiki here, mostly because it's full of NLF not applicable in VS Fights.

Especially since this one seems to be in the long list of slapping "Meta" on everything to make something "stronger".

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

No, that's not a legit power here. This seems identical to omnipotence except you are claiming it is arbitrarily "better" for some reason.

According to the powerlisting wiki it is the ability to do anything without justification. Whereas on the powerlisting wiki, omnipotence bears not an ability to defy logic, kinda oxymoronic. But I digress.

Also never did I intend to convey Metapotence as arbitrarily superior, I was merely enquiring as to if it is a VALID power in terms of discussion on this wiki, and could metapotence counter another user OF metapotence? Although the latter is very much a side question.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Oh... sorry your post didnt load when I wished to reply, I comprehend now. Thank you for your time everyone...

 

[Wokistan]

Omnipotence explicitly is above logic though. You don't even need to be omnipotent to be beyond the conventions of logic. Within the context of this wiki, Metapotence and just about every other power with the "meta" prefix is not acceptable, as we don't really like reality/fiction interaction. There's some guidelines here.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Okay, so it seems that my pal and I have entered another debate, thankfully involving not metapotence, and merely collapsing such into greater omnipotence. Nonetheless...

If a one true god were to divvy itself into the souls entwine with life, and it wished to affect one being of it's choice, would it be able to do so? For if everyone is to bear a soul of which is effectively a portion of an omnipotent being, and said being wished to affect one of it's creations, would it be able to do so?

In essence, this is a battle betwixt two tier zero's, yes I know piting omnipotence against omnipotence is in essence a paradox, but Im again trying to prove a point.

 

[Wokistan]

Omnipotence can do literally whatever it likes due to the concept being something pretty much incomprehensible in full to a human perspective. Interestingly, Lovecraft explored this idea pretty well. As such, tier 0s we technically don't call omnipotent but only questionably so.

 

[Wokistan]

It is kinda strange how we eschew the term but have tier 0 as the same thing in all but name and have them treated that way though. It's like a loophole around not using omnipotence, except against ourselves.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Omnipotence can do literally whatever it likes due to the concept being something pretty much incomprehensible in full to a human perspective. Interestingly, Lovecraft explored this idea pretty well. As such, tier 0s we technically don't call omnipotent but only questionably so.

So... would bearing a portion of an omnipotent being as a soul afford you the ability to contest their attempts upon your being by rejecting their affront per being able to do something sans justification?

 

[Wokistan]

Depends on if the omnipotent wants it or not, but gaining souls doesn't immediately give you that power anyways. You don't even need to be omnipotent to be transdual, so being both omnipotent and not omnipotent while being omnipotent shouldn't be too bad for an omnipotent if it's really omnipotent.

See why we don't like the term very much?

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Depends on if the omnipotent wants it or not, but gaining souls doesn't immediately give you that power anyways. You don't even need to be omnipotent to be transdual, so being both omnipotent and not omnipotent while being omnipotent shouldn't be too bad for an omnipotent if it's really omnipotent.

See why we don't like the term very much?

Per it in essence being a literal unstoppable force/immovable object of which, upon facing another omnipotent, would induce a logical meltdown that our human brains cannot comprehend? Very much so... But if both beings wished to undo the omnipotence of the other and vanquish them from existence, nonexistence, and whatever lies inbetween and outside of such a binary, and both were of EQUAL calibre, who would win?

 

[Wokistan]

The omnipotent one

In all seriousness, this just isn't something that can be answered from our limited, dualistic perspective. For omnipotence is far beyond the idea of conflict, the idea of winning, even the idea of ideas. I would actually recommend reading Lovecraft on this, as he writes the 1-As in this way that in effect makes them as incomprehensible to the reader as they are in verse. Azathoth was a pretty short story.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

The omnipotent one
In all seriousness, this just isn't something that can be answered from our limited, dualistic perspective. For omnipotence is far beyond the idea of conflict, the idea of winning, even the idea of ideas. I would actually recommend reading Lovecraft on this, as he writes the 1-As in this way that in effect makes them as incomprehensible to the reader as they are in verse. Azathoth was a pretty short story.

I shall check such out! Thank you for the elaboration ferventlyso!

 

[Amexim]

Outside of how this wiki treats it;

Omnipotence is impossible, in addition to being bound by human logic. Which makes it impossible by that same human logic anyway. So trying to talk as if there's any set definition to this made up paradoxical concept is actually a stupid conversation imo. You should just say "that's not how this wiki treats it" and leave it at that, because omnipotence "being beyond logic" is a bunch of meaningless garbage.

Inside of how this wiki treats it;

See what Saikou said. I agree that some things on Powerlisting wiki is BS, but it has a better grasp of the fictional trope of "superpowers" than this site does. You're using NLF in a way to comprehend a characters abilities on a profile, rather than a fight itself or a debate itself. If the story says there's a Suggsverse level of omnipotent scaling, there just is. It doesn't mean much for the site because no one can debate with those characters anyway, unless they bring up that scaling list.

 

[SwathingDegenera777]

Damn... Thats actually pretty cool, thank you

 

[Agnaa]

Metapotence is a subset of omnipotence, as omnipotence is all power.

Two different omnipotent beings cannot exist in the same reality. They would both be described by exactly the same set of characteristics, making them the same being. If you were to assert that they were different somehow, then each would be missing at least one characteristic, making neither of them omnipotent.

Here is a useful page on omnipotence.

 

[Amexim]

"A nonsense is a nonsense, no matter if it has the word omnipotence in between," right? Pfft.

"Accepting that omnipotence has all the properties that can be had, and that this would include properties that are opposed to each other, it would be possible, therefore, to have both the property of impotence and the property of power, i.e., for that, it would suffice to have both the act of creating the stone, and the act of lifting it."

Except impotence and omnipotence are impossible to have at the same time without sacrificing the complete nature of either one.

Even if you sacrifice traditional logic in favor of a made-up version (lol, like all logic), that doesn't make it traditionally rational. Which makes discussing and philosophizing about it absolutely worthless in traditional terms— because the "truth", what every discussion is focused on constructing, whether the intent of one party is to lie or not, directly or indirectly—- becomes whatever anyone agrees for it to be, and therefore meaningless, because something only means something when it, well means something specific. If something can mean anything, then it doesn't really have a set meaning.

Point is, omnipotence means whatever someone says it does, like all words, or it means nothing at all if it follows traditional logic.

 

[Amexim]

However, nonsense is nonsense, remember. If the definition doesn't make sense to a human, being "beyond human logic", then it doesn't exist from our perspective— since, to us, human logic is all there is.

So whenever some religious nut tries to convince you that their fairytale guy can do anything and that your arguing because a human can't understand his ways, tell them that they can't understand it either, so the position they're arguing for is a product of their own ignorance, irrefutably. Because, if they can understand that their old man or woman in the Sky is more powerful than they can understand, it causes the paradox of them being able to understand that which they already said they couldn't understand, meaning their claim is either bullshit (since nothing they said could be true, from a traditional logic perspective), or they're just saying they're right because they are.

In which case, you stop debating. Because they're just trying to trap you in a circle— claiming that you have to obey their logic because they said so, framing it as if it's objective when it's not, and using that framework to trick you into believing that their argument is worth the effort of trying to debunk when you're trying to use their rules to break their own rules, after they already said their rules say that their rules can't be broken by their own rules.

 

[Agnaa]

Except impotence and omnipotence are impossible to have at the same time without sacrificing the complete nature of either one.

Since I see this as kind of a centerpiece to your argument, I'm going to just respond to this bit for now.

If you're worried about transdual beings having conflicting properties, then it's just not omnipotence that's a problem, it's a whole lot of fiction.

You don't need to go far in fiction to find characters that have conflicting properties. "Existing and not existing simultaneously" "Being both alive and dead".

If we accept that these characters can have conflicting characteristics simultaneously, then accepting that omnipotent beings can also being omnipotent is not a stretch at all. If we reject that, then we have to toss out a ton of god-tiers with abilities that can be debated and compared reasonably simply because they don't fit with our real world logic, which isn't something we should do on a fictional battle wiki.