Is Yhwach Moon Level?

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Using Kinetic Energy here and here .

 

[SephIIIroth]

I would say he's more likely to be planet level than anything

Here's what we know >soul society was semi stable untill the souls increased and became a threat to destroy it along with 3 other dimensions >the soul king was created to control the trafic of the souls meaning he is controlling energy enough to destroy multiple planets

Idek why it's labeled as a possibility

That said, just taking 5 minutes instead 20 minutes in the accepted KE calc would make him moon level, which in itself is still lowballing the timeframe since the timeframe should be ichigo opening a door/ urahara typing coordinates

Edit: and just soul society being a planet would make seireitei much larger than what we have here

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Exactly. But my point here is to proof that he has Moon level in AP at least with use of Kinetic energy and Planet Level in ED after absorbing the SK.

Soul Society is more bigger than the Earth. We saw that on memories of nobody. The fact that everyone lost their memories besides ichigo still follows the manga which recently reference the movie. We also saw that Soul Society was bigger than Earth.

 

[Non-Bias]

Where exactly are you guys getting this from, especially a planet sized Soul Society? To my knowledge, no Bleach movie is canon.

 

[SephIIIroth]

Well where are you getting that soul society is NOT planet sized? We have confirmation about it, we know it has a moon, same hours perday, same night/day cycle, same seasons which all point out that it's rotating around a sun We even see it's as big as earth in the manga when yuroichi is explaining the vally of screams http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eWtAhv1HaIY/VUuMSIR3EbI/AAAAAAACOwA/rqGqd3B82QI/s16000/016.png http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bG4jHcghfRw/VUuMS2a3C_I/AAAAAAACOwI/F3t8bOk3qYI/s16000/017.png

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

First of all let me tell you that Kubo personally supervise each movie and it was written by him. There's been moments in the manga when certain things from the movies are addressed in it. We have proof that Soul Society is planet size in two different non-canon movies (which are debatable) and once in the manga which is above this comment.

1-According to the Bleach Movie "Fade to Black" Seireitei is 400 spirit miles for it's diameter

Kubo over seed the production of this movie by the way http://bleachness.livejournal.com/219899.html

1 spirit mile=2.4 spirit miles

400x2.4=960 miles

This is the diameter of soul society

Now that makes Gremmy's meteor which is close to the size of seireitei that large. Then you have to factor in density and the fact it was mving at hypersonic speeds given it's flames.

If a 10km meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs was country level then something close to 960km is easily continental-multi continental.

Remember, In 10 days, if you walk for 16 hours a day you can walk for 160 hours.

160 hours x 5 km/h = 800 km

Yep. Seireitei is easily over 800 km in diameter (which is 200 spirit miles according to the canon movie) So a 200-400 km wide meteor will have a multi continent level impact considering a 10km meteor can lifewipe the dinosaurs and create a country sized crater.

2-Another cal for the seireitei, Back in the Soul Society, Kubo had Yoruichi state that it would take ten days to walk from one gate of the Shakonmaku to the next one. The Four Gates are located at the cardinal directions, so it takes ten days (according to Yoruichi) to walk around a quarter of the Seireitei's circumference. Because the calcs for size that use pixel scaling are the ones generally accepted, people mainly considered Yoruichi's statement to be nonsensical at best.

However, there is an image where a size comparison between the Rukongai and the Seireitei can be made.

Namely, from a panel on this page:

http://www.**********.com/94-525-19/...hapter-71.html

Also supporting Yoruichi's statement is the fact that it was made in regards to the plot. They would have wasted time trying to walk to the other gates (10 days), which necessitated the used of the Kakaku Cannon. The fact the statement was used in relation to the plot validates it from an in-universe standpoint.

Here's a link to the page in question:

http://www.**********.com/94-530-15/...hapter-76.html

Here is the image which I used to scale the Seireitei's diameter to the Rukongai area -

[1]

Rukongai width - 93 pixels

Seireitei diameter - 133 pixels

Roughly, this means that the Seireitei's diameter is 1.43 times that of the distance the Rukongai stretches in one direction.

Sables' old calc for Yamamoto blowing up the Soul Society establishes what the distance would be (in this case radius) if you lined up 80 Japanese districts together.

There is a high-end and a low end for the size of the Rukongai, so I'll use both:

Sables' Rukongai = 1504 kilometres

Fluttershy's Rukongai = 336.83 kilometresSo a high-end and low-end distance can be attained by multiplying them by the ratio of size between the Rukongai and Seireitei. High-end Seireitei size (Sables) = 2150.72 kilometres

Low-end Seireitei size (Fluttershy) = 481.67 kilometres

NOTE: After looking around a bit to find out how far the average person can walk in a single day (multiply that by 10 to get the distance from one gate to another around the Shakonmaku), it was 24 miles for walking an average 3 miles per hours for eight hours.

If that were taken into consideration, you'd get a circumference of the Seireitei of 960 miles, and a radius of 245.89 kilometres, which makes the diameter around 491 kilometres.

As a result, that means the "low-end" is actually the one closest to reality in this situation.We have already seen the cycle of day and night. Also we have seen the vast land and mountains outside of the sereitei which are shown in the manga. Not to mention that Aizen and Ichigom fought in Soul Society outside of Karakura Town.

Edit: Let me add this, Assuming the walking speed of the average human is 3.1 mph (source: wikipedia), and it takes ten days to walk from gate to gate, then, assuming the walk is continuous for the duration, the gates are approximately 744 miles apart. As far as the actual area of Seiretei, it would depend on its shape and whether the walk is along the perimeter of the wall, or the shortest distance between each gate inside of Seiretei (a diamond pattern in this case).

For simplicity's sake, I'll assume the walk is along the outside perimeter, and that Seiretei is a rectangle, the dimensions of which would be 744 miles by 744 miles, given that the four gates are equidistant and located at the center of each side. The square mileage then would be 553,536 sq miles, or over twice the size of Texas.

 

[Illuminati478]

^most of those calc aren't based on any actual scaling (talking about seireitei size, not SS size as a whole), we should rely on scaled meassurments before statements, and while i admit it is compalling to use the diagram, in the direct scaling (as i've already done in a previous calc here by using the full panel scan of the seireitei and recieved a much lower value then was found here, 67-124 kilometers).

 

[Davy0]

It sounds like Ryuu is trying to make up numbers again... (Scratches head)

The ability to control the flow of spiritual energy doesn't give a character the power of a Planet, I keep saying this but no one wants to listen. All it means is that if the guy didn't exist things would go bad. It's not by his own power things go bad, it's by the miscommunication of spiritual power that it goes bad. So while his power is to be the lynchpin that controls spiritual power, it doesn't mean he can do anything with that power that's comparable to Planet Busting.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

i get small continent level using the gpe energy

 

[Illuminati478]

doesn't matter, the accpeted stat comes from a KE calc since it was decided it was more reliable method for the feat then GPE...

 

[Illuminati478]

@davy0 we are going but what actually happans in the manga, and not personal takes on it...

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

It was stated by Jugram that the realms are keep in balance thanks to "Yhwach own power", so if you don't have someone with that kind of power maintaining the dimensions they will crumble apart.

 

[Davy0]

@davy0 we are going but what actually happans in the manga, and not personal takes on it...

It's not a personal take. He controls the flow of reishi. And didn't someone call the place we're talking about "a town".

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

"a town" as an error.

Here's the real translation:

 

[Davy0]

That's nice, but how do we know that the Vandereich is as large as the Seireitei?

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Easy here:

 

[Davy0]

That means absolutely nothing. The Seireitei vanished. That doesn't mean the Quincy's place is the Seireitei's sheer size.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Not knowing this means that you don't watch Bleach but claim to know about it. The Vandereich is the same size. Like the other side of a coin but in this case the Sereitei's shadow. Indeed the Vandereich lies beneath Sereitei's shadow.

Here:

 

[Davy0]

That's not what that means. All you're doing is manipulating the understanding of what you wish it to be. As you always do. Doesn't seem like much has changed from you Ryuu-san. I would be more inclined to agree with you, if you showed even a speck of planet busting stats. Because again, I stated why his power does not necessarily mean he's capable of using it destructively, multiple times. He controls its flow. Not the power to manipulate it at his whim. And there's a big different in that.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

I'm not maipulating nothing. If the characters show it to be it is. You can't change that by saying that i doesn't look like that. I have a tons of questions for Naruto yet they were never be answer since its over. But that's another subject i don't want to discuss. Moving on. I show proof yet you're only manipulating what you see and stating your "opinion" nothing more which can't be use as proof since you can't proved.

On the other hand the scans proof and if you read Bleach you will know is the same size.

He regulates the dimensions with his own power. So, has full control over something he didn't before.

 

[Davy0]

They didn't show anything, but some rubble being uplifted in the air. Does that mean that we can count it as gradual destruction of the world instead of the destruction of the entire world in an instant? Because that wouldn't make it Planet Level. I don't care that much for Naruto, I do care if someone is using complete BS to bolster characters powers, or are using double-standards to make characters more powerful. Or are trying to manipulate things as they see fit to give their characters more power than they actually have. That kinda pisses me off.

Nah. "shadows" don't mean anything. It could have meant that they were the underside of the Seireitei so they acted as shadows. You'd still need to show the size of the Vandereich itself.

He regulates the flow of spirit energy in those dimensions. Once again you're trying to manipulate the words as you see fit. It doesn't mean the dimensions will be destroyed because he doesn't control them, it only means that spiritual-based substances will be unraveled and chaotic. Again, a large difference that you're not seeing.

Keep going though. You'll get there one of these days.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

The funny thing is that Yhwach did all of this without even moving a inch. So, call it what you want the facts still reamins. You only have doubts nothing more. "Shadows" you can see here that the shadows are taking over all of the sereitei.



and here its replacing the sereitei building by building. so it is the same size.




Iook at the buildings shadows, they are replacing everything. Not to mention that Quincys can control shadows as portals.




The different you are seeking doesn't exist. The spirit energy that he regulates in does dimensions is with his own power which was already stated above. So, he needs to be as powerful as the energy to control it.

 

[Davy0]

All that tells anyone is that he has Psychokinesis. Whitebeard was stated to be capable of destroying the world effortlessly. But we don't consider him Planet Busting because of it. Not that that matters now, I'm perfectly content with that, as I'd rather see evidence myself. If you're going to call me biased about anything, it's One Piece.

Because you haven't shown any proof other than manipulating the word Shadows as you see fit. As you do... in every. single. argument. I'd stop arguing with you if people wised up and stopped you from doing that, but my work is never done. Is it.

Not what that means, but sure. Keep going.

Um... no... again, he regulates the spiritual energy that comes from those dimensions, not the dimensions themselves. The reishi is the focal point of that control, but it doesn't "regulate" the dimensions, only the building blocks of reishi from the flow.

 

[SephIIIroth]

The arguments here are so ******* stupid it's making my eyes bleed

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

You need a history class about Bleach my friend. If he had Psychokinesis wouldn't he used before? One more thing, Kaguya also creates her dimensions by using the chakra elements, so why is she posted as if she have total control over them if she only has control over chakra? Exactly because they are made out of chakra. Just like everything in Bleach is made out of Reishi. Even the Human Wolrd has reishi and get's what everything in the human world has a soul. So, your logical theories don't work for Bleach. Also keep on topic.

Let me see Soul King>>>flow of souls>>>>buildings made of reishi.

 

[Davy0]

Because he got it from his uh... "father". Kaguya isn't planet level normally, her large black ball is planet level due to sheer size. Not everything in Naruto is made out of chakra, again, I don't like Naruto. I only defend it when the wank or the abuse of those who work hard to get certain things accepted is disgusting. You say I don't listen yet you aren't either. It has reishi, but it's not made out of pure reishi. Can you show Yhwach moving the entire planet with his new found GLORIOUS powers. You just used Naruto once again... and you're telling me to keep on topic. Yeah, Ryuu-san, that's showing me a thing or two about keeping on topic isn't it.

Soul King >>> Flow of Reishi >>>> Buildings made of Reishi. Inclined to agree with the Psychokinesis of Reishi still. Sure as heck didn't manipulate it so the buildings were **** and span, all he did was made them into layers so that he could move the Vandereich otherwise why didn't he just disassemble the molecules and rearrange them back into a more pristine form. Again, very strange.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Again you're implying that Yhwach got Psychokinesis from his father, (when he lift the vandereich), when in reality he already had this power. He used against, Yoruichi, Ichigo and Ichibei before absorbing his father or mimihagi. See where your logic fails.

 

[Non-Bias]

When did Yhwach show Psychokinesis abilities? I don't really recall them you see.

 

[Davy0]

No. It just meant that with the upgrade to his overall abilities, he gained the power to do more with that Psychokinetic Reishi ability. To manipulate reishi based constructs and use them in that way. But it's not like he did much with them. You're trying to make it seem like more of a special feat than it actually is. It is a good feat for Bleach, but (sucks his teeth) calling it Planet Level is a stretch beyond the highest order. Kk already stated as such with what he showed. I'm inclined to believe him more than you because he's not constantly trying to play the "I hate Bleach" card and actually tries to go by the facts.

 

[Davy0]

When did Yhwach show Psychokinesis abilities? I don't really recall them you see.

When he used his power to collect the Vandereich. He can manipulate constructs of reishi. But there's a difference between manipulating it on a base level versus just manipulating the mass and matter of it. He sure as hell didn't show it being manipulated on a planetary scale.

 

[Non-Bias]

Oh, I remember that one. I was talking about when he used it on Yoruichi, Ichibei, and Ichigo. For the life of me I can't remember any Psychokinesis abilities being used on them.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

He used Psychokinesis to push Yoruichi out of the palace. He used to push ichigo aside from afar and he used to blow Ichibei away. We can see his face through his hands wide open. Is the same technique.

So, why was he unable to that before absorbing the Soul King may I ask? Because that ability has nothing to do with lifting the vandereich.

 

[Davy0]

Huh... ya know what, me neither... Please show us a scan, OH! Great Dragon!

Are you sure that wasn't the sheer pressure of his attack. If he could do that, then why did he allow Ichigo to even touch him, or keep him grounded for such a time. OH! OH! I know! Another inconsistency of the oh so great Kubo-sama. You know Kubo-sama, you should really get your characters abilities straightened out!

 

[Non-Bias]

He used Psychokinesis to push Yoruichi out of the palace. He used to push ichigo aside from afar and he used to blow Ichibei away. We can see his face through his hands wide open. Is the same technique.
So, why was he unable to that before absorbing the Soul King may I ask? Because that ability has nothing to do with lifting the vandereich.

Not sure about the Ichibei feat that you're mentioning, but I remember what you're talking about regarding Yoruichi and Ichigo.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

I don't remember any villian character using their full abilities to negate everything. Examples: Madara and Kaguya. Why Naruto you ask because i also watched and liked. Another thing Yhwach can see the future so you also don't know if he already saw this as the only way to guarranty his future.

If he use sheer pressure wouldn't that had kill them then? Since when are Bleach character ever to use sheer pressure? The sheer pressure could be what he used to blow up the head of the arrancar at the beginning but he use one finger. That would be what you mean because i never seen spiritual pressare been able to push someone very far. It only makes them fear, paralyze or vanish.

 

[Davy0]

How far into the future. And how was the Soul King sealed if he can see that far into the future. If the Soul King had the ability to see into the future and he wasn't limited. Why was he "captured" and "sealed" in the first place. More PIS I suppose.

You're right, WHY DIDN'T HE KILL THEM!

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Do i look like i can see the future now? Your now asking questions that doesn't have to do anythingn with this thread just like you did in the other one to get it close. Please stay with the current topic.

(You're right, WHY DIDN'T HE KILL THEM!)- I can ask the same thing in Naruto why didn't Madara kill them if people claim that he was stronger? Why didn't Kaguya just kill them both when she had them in her hands? I don't know ask Kishi.

 

[Davy0]

You're the one who brought up the Future thing. I've been on topic. Don't bring up stuff if you want to talk about it. Kinda the point of discussion. Ryu-san, don't go slipping on me now.

So those characters had psychokinesis, then. I mean if I had psychokinesis I would have just thrown them around and broken their bodies with the sheer force of my throwing power. I really don't think that was Pyschokinesis, Ryu-san.

 

[Ryuuzakiscorpio]

Yhwach Psychokinesis:

 

[Davy0]

That really doesn't seem like Psychokinesis, dude...