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Issue with Energy Equalization

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@MachTwo

Because as i've explained in my OP, making energies only partially equalized or interact to an x extent is cherry picking and selectively choosing what applies to what in the comparison of energies. Which I and others here vehemently oppose.
 
I am just using Naruto as example of random anime boy. Saw the name so yeah. It applies to literally anyone
 
I can do that if you want
 
Should this be highlighted?
Why? It seems to me Wokistan has pointed out the flaw in the rationale to support energy equalization: if you're giving a broader range of abilities, weaknesses, skills, etc to any character then you've violated the base cause for comparing the character as-is to another character as-is.

Simply put, it undermines the purpose of vs battles to add powers and abilities to a character simply because, in our biased perspective, it makes the match more 'fair' by an arbitrary measure.

It's a quite simple and obvious explanation to why the presented problem isn't a 'problem' at all and is rather how the system should work.

No highlight needed to discuss that I should think.
 
Equalizing energies is giving characters non-existent abilities for the sake of a vs match.

In the end, energy is energy, chakra should be sensed the same as ki or cosmo. However we're not about to give the verse specific properties of said energy away freely just for the sake of matches. Just because a Goku vs Seiya thread is made with energy equalized doesn't mean he automatically knows what the 8th sense is and all that stuff.

Honestly energy equalization is pointless. If the intrinsic nature of a special energy makes one group of individuals invisible to anyone that doesn't have that type of energy, then you're just going to have to fight invisible people. My $0.02.
 
It is still an attempted revision to a large section of the wiki that can have far lasting consequences so just highlight to get other staff here faster I guess
 
So uhh... whats being proposed here in summary for us just now joining??? looks like a lot of talk happened befor the Highlight
 
Wokistan said:
It is still an attempted revision to a large section of the wiki that can have far lasting consequences so just highlight to get other staff here faster I guess
Click to expand...

Thank you
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
So uhh... whats being proposed here in summary for us just now joining??? looks like a lot of talk happened befor the Highlight
Click to expand...
To sum up my points, how we treat energy equalization is quite honestly absurd and flawed. We selectively cherry pick what applies and what doesnt apply to energies that are being equalized when its convienent for the sake of boosting or shooting down a character in a vs match. And we have no actual justification for why we're doing it like this in the 1st place.

So it lead me to ask why do this instead of just equalizing the energies completely. If your going to equalize energies, then both energies should have all the pros and the cons and not pick what you want or dont want to be applied. And if you dont want that, then don't equalize them at all.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
@Xulrev
Because Wokistan is clearly not the only person who can weigh in on this discussion...
Click to expand...
Well obviously. But unless you fundamentally disagree with vs battles being 'Character A in-canon vs Character B in-canon' to compare them in such a setting as this, you shouldn't argue in favor of energy equalization as-argued in your OP, Kukui.

That's moreso my point.
 
Heavens Feel said:
This is a simple one. you can equalise the energies but not give characters new abilities/resistances as a result. For what I presumed, was for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
And this, as I explained it to be, is cherry picking.
 
The question is ... Either it equalizes everything or it equalizes nothing.

To argue against selectivity is simply common sense. But it will be funny to see how many skills will stop working outside of their original verse.
 
If you give characters new abilities from different energies then at that point you are no longer comparing two characters fighting each other as they are. It's no longer accurate and is I'm fact inherently a false discussion on the fight.

I'll use Seiya and Goku.

To accurately compare them fighting I will assume they are using their own energy to fight each other, but if I'm equalizing energy and giving them the abilities of the opponent's energy this fight is no longer Seiya vs Goku. The fight becomes Seiya with Ki abilities vs Goku with Cosmos abilities.

It's no longer accurate nor a true depiction of the characters. It blatantly goes against the whole point of the wiki which strives for accuracy.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Heavens Feel said:
This is a simple one. you can equalise the energies but not give characters new abilities/resistances as a result. For what I presumed, was for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
And this, as I explained it to be, is cherry picking.
Click to expand...
You can throw accusations and labels however you want to try undermine the legitimacy of it but it doesn't change the fact you can't give characters abilities that they don't have. End of story. You would undermine the entire point of this wiki's indexing.
 
Antoniofer said:
The simply answer is simply not equalize forces, homestly its more simply than arbitrary set new rules.
Click to expand...
Honestly I agree with this. Energy equalizing is dumb since we're literally changing the characters themselves instead of accurately depciting and discussing them as they truly are.
 
Cosmo and ki are actually pretty different, the first one its more broad as it basically quintessence.
 
Heavens Feel said:
You can throw accusations and labels however you want to try undermine the legitimacy of it but it doesn't change the fact you can't give characters abilities that they don't have. End of story. You would undermine the entire point of this wiki's indexing.
Click to expand...
Naruto characters using Genjutsu on people without a chakra network, Byakugan users using Gentle Fist on people without a chakra network, Dragon Ball characters sensing people without KI, and so on say hello. Because we already do give verses abilities they dont have without energy equalization.

So this "you can't" argument, when we already do, is completely irrelevant. As i've already pointed out.
 
Antoniofer said:
Cosmo and ki are actually pretty different, the first one its more broad as it basically quintessence.
Click to expand...
Irrelvant to this thread but funny enough... Cosmos is used in the Saint Seiya franchise for other things like Chi, Kundala (indian Chakra Basically), magic, and Anti-magic...
 
I tbh agree with the fact that you can equalize an energy source, but the character doesn't get the abilities of it. I always assumed in a situation like Chakra vs Ki vs Reiatsu, we just assumed that one's unique abilities would work on each other. Like Genjutsu would work on Ki users and Reiatsu and stuff like that. They didn't gain the energy source, it's just that abilities from one energy source can harm those with another.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Antoniofer said:
The simply answer is simply not equalize forces, homestly its more simply than arbitrary set new rules.
Click to expand...
Honestly I agree with this. Energy equalizing is dumb since we're literally changing the characters themselves instead of accurately depciting and discussing them as they truly are.
Click to expand...
I don't neccesarily disagree with this either actually, but I want more opinions on this as this is quite drastic.

But I vehemently and completely oppose how the standard is currently being treated.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Irrelvant to this thread but funny enough... Cosmos is used in the Saint Seiya franchise for other things like Chi, Kundala (indian Chakra Basically), magic, and Anti-magic...
Click to expand...
Commented about it cuz someone mentioned it. As I said, they use quintessence, that is the source of life-fore and universal principles, so it cover mana, ki, comic forces, etc.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I tbh agree with the fact that you can equalize an energy source, but the character doesn't get the abilities of it. I always assumed in a situation like Chakra vs Ki vs Reiatsu, we just assumed that one's unique abilities would work on each other. Like Genjutsu would work on Ki users and Reiatsu and stuff like that. They didn't gain the energy source, it's just that abilities from one energy source can harm those with another.
Click to expand...
The problem with this though is that now you are selectively choosing how much of an interaction these energy sources are able to interact with each other. Not to mention ignoring the fact that they're almost if not completely different than each other and we just say "screw it, lets allow them to interact."

And if they interact, how far can they interact with each other?

This is still cherry picking what goes and what doesnt go.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The problem with this though is that now you are selectively choosing how much of an interaction these energy sources are able to interact with each other. Not to mention ignoring the fact that they're almost if not completely different than each other and we just say "screw it, lets allow them to interact."

And if they interact, how far can they interact with each other?

This is still cherry picking what goes and what doesnt go.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with cherry picking so that more matches are possible. Monika shouldn't be haxless against 99% of characters just because they don't have game files for her to manipulate.

The matches section is to facilitate entertainment between members. I think both not equalizing any energies and equalizing energies completely down to abilities and resistances are bad for everyone's entertainment. Therefore, we should stick with the current partial equalization.
 
Maybe the "Terminology" has to be changed. I think that's where the issue lies.

When we say these various energies are equal, yet argue as if they're not, then that is an issue of misunderstanding the entire basis of "Equalization". Allowing energies to interact is NOT the same as making energies equal.

So, change the terminology seeing as we're not actually making a damn thing equal.
 
I agree with Imade this. As a side note, why does it always seem that you in particular Kukui seem to have some type of issue regarding Bleach? With all due respect to you but it seems like a very reoccurring issue and most of them tend to go south.


I agree with the notion of equalizing certain energies, I.E, ones that are similar. Theres a reason why we dont equalize One Piece's Haki to let's say Fairy Tail's magic or Naruto's Chakra. It's because the mechanics are fundamentally different from those sets of chi groups, thus we can't equalize them due to how different they are in nature. It's why One Piece vs Bleach matchups can't happen because the two energies are that much different. Simply wanting to equalize everything is faulty especially whenever the two energies are not comparable in the slightest. It's quite literally giving other characters abilities they don't have. It's essentially the equivalent of me equalizing Ki with Haki just so Goku can hit a Logia because they can't be interacted with unless one has Haki or NPI. If they don't have either one simply avoid making the match, it's that easy. This is just a way for people to give powers and abilities to characters.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
I agree with Imade this. As a side note, why does it always seem that you in particular Kukui seem to have some type of issue regarding Bleach? With all due respect to you but it seems like a very reoccurring issue and most of them tend to go south.
Click to expand...
Where in anywhere in this thread did I point out Bleach was an issue with this? Nowhere. I didnt even use it as an example as to why I disagree with how we use this standard.

You brought this up for absolutely no reason at all.
 
Literally the first half of your OP is referring to a Bleach vs Thread, more specifically Reiatsu Crush. I think the real reason why people have an issue with Reiatsu Crush is because it's an instant win but I never see people complaining about passive mind hax, like Reinhard's spear. Or Darth whatever his face is with passive soul and mind hax. Passive's have always been a thing in this wiki but now it suddenly becomes all complex despite it being very straight forward? Doesn't make much sense to me.
 
This. This is how it is and should Continue to be. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


Continue to be?? We never stopped equalizing energies ƒñ¿ƒñ¿ƒñ¿ did u misunderstand something
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Literally the first half of your OP is referring to a Bleach vs Thread, more specifically Reiatsu Crush.
Click to expand...
Because thats the thread where I decided to make this. Not because Bleach was an issue. This isnt a Bleach issue, it's a wikia issue.
 
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