Jetstream Sam should be solid 7-C.

[Tetsucabrah]

Being capable of using blade mode and matching blows with Raiden and Armstrong is one thing that puts him up there. The narrative consistently seemed to hype him up as the strongest member of the group.

If that's not enough he also cut off Armstrong's arm.

 

[DarkGrath]

Honestly, this seems fair to me. Is there any particular reason or rebuttal that stopped this from being implemented before?

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Honestly, this seems fair to me. Is there any particular reason or rebuttal that stopped this from being implemented before?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I agree

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Don't know how i missed this, but i also agree.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Who do I need to show this to to get the changes accepted?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Get an Admin here and it should be enough.

 

[Dark649]

Disagree. His sword just ignores durability, which allowed him to cut through Armstrong. When Armstrong went serious he easily removed his arm, only Ripper Raiden scales to him, Monsoon is with likely because he tried to put a fight with Raiden in that state, if Raiden canonically used Ripper mode on Sam he would have quickly died.

 

[SpookyShadow]

He ****** Ripper Mode Raiden in the ass. (At least whenI played)

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Didn't Sam also catch Raiden's blade with his hands?

I remember there's a point where you knock his sword away and he fights you barehanded for a bit.

 

[Schnee_One]

He did, but there's nothing stating it was ripper mode

Even then, Raiden overpowered him just fine

 

[Dark649]

Raiden used ripper mode [red eyes] only against Monsoon and Armstrong, he also had Sam's blade in the final fight.

 

[SpookyShadow]

You can use Ripper Mode during second Sam fight

 

[Dark649]

You can use Ripper Mode gameplay wise against Sundowner, Sam and Excelsius gained after the Monsoon fight but unlike Monsoon and Armstrong where he activates it in the cutscene, there is nothing canonically stating that he used it on them.

 

[SpookyShadow]

But when you use it on then, and they actually are capable of holding their own instead of getting shitstomped doesn't it mean something?

 

[Dark649]

This is gameplay where every enemy, even the weaker ones can harm Raiden. While its true that Armstrong fought every member to test them, he likely held back like he did on Sam prior to him cutting his arm, Low 7-C+ scaling is because of Raiden surviving Armstrong Excelsius destruction that generated that damage.

 

[DarkGrath]

You can use Ripper Mode gameplay wise against Sundowner, Sam and Excelsius gained after the Monsoon fight but unlike Monsoon and Armstrong where he activates it in the cutscene, there is nothing canonically stating that he used it on them.

In that case, shouldn't he get "Possibly 7-C"? There isn't necessarily anything confirming that he used Ripper mode in the fight, but it's entirely physically possible. We know that he's willing to use it, and there's nothing that would contradict him using it against Sam. So it's entirely possible, but the chance that it happened is indeterminate. That fits the definition of a "Possibly" rating quite well.

 

[Dark649]

No, i think Raiden handled him without Ripper mode.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Raiden got his machine body but Sam is more skilled with his weapon and his HF blade is >>>>>>>>>> Raiden's, he didn't evne need Ripper Mode unlike Raiden to **** with Armstrong

 

[DarkGrath]

What suggests he handled him without Ripper mode? Again, I'm not saying he necessarily did. I'm saying it's entirely plausible, and that therefore it is worth a Possibly rating. The Possibly rating is given in the event that their statistics would be based on a plausible, yet indeterminate factor, and this would qualify. I don't understand why it wouldn't.

Also, it should be noted that Sam managed to quite easily hold his own against Armstrong. While actually cutting off his arm is mostly due to Durability Neg, he was still fully capable of fighting and decently hurting Armstrong before being beaten, whereas Raiden without Ripper mode got completely stomped. It would be inconsistent for Raiden without Ripper mode to beat Sam, since under the conditions that would put him approximately at Armstrong's level, which he definitely is not.

 

[Dark649]

I checked and Sam indeed did better than Raiden against Armstrong initially, he may was not fully going out against Raiden by that.

But it seems that the 7-C calc may be invalid due the KE revision, so the characters might be revised to higher with Ripper Mode for Raiden, At least Low 7-C+ for Armstrong, Likely at least Low 7-C+ for Monsoon and Possibly at least Low 7-C+ for Sam.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Should close this thread since everything is settled then+

 

[Skylietz]

Sam capable of cutting Armstrong's arm from exploiting the nanomachines' weakness: its hardening speed. He can't even do any meaningful damage without it.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

No, i think Raiden handled him without Ripper mode.

Let's be fair, Ripper mode is less of a form or "mode" and more of how unethical and brutal Raiden lets himself be. Gameplay aside or included, he activates it circumstantially, so there is never a reason to assume, especially in a fight for his life and his mission, that he would avoid using it whatsoever. More so against the Winds of Destruction, he has every reason to pull it out, and he isn't a dummy when it comes to fight intelligence. Even since MGS4 he demonstrates that he can think and act a step ahead, even in groups of enemies, the only thing for him that's changed is his ethics (limiters), his body (upgraded over time), and perspective (in-character standard battle assumptions). Ripper mode is basically bloodlusted.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Sam capable of cutting Armstrong's arm from exploiting the nanomachines' weakness: its hardening speed.
He can't even do any meaningful damage without it.

Even against Armstrong without hardening, it is a meaningful feat given he naturally is quite strong and durable. Makes me wonder if we should key him with and without them.

 

[Schnee_One]

ZA HOP HAS RETURNTH

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

yeth!

 

[Twellas]

Genuinely curious, why do you say that Raiden fought Armstrong with Ripper mode after obtaining the Murasama?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I'd say main reason is that Raiden hates him substantially, and thus probably wouldn't skimp on bloodlust

 

[SpookyShadow]

Honestly when Jack was entering Ripper Mode during Monsoon fight he had just red eyes, red aura appeared later, and they disappeared for a bit.

https://youtu.be/TBH_Yo5sSEI?t=279

 

[Twellas]

yeah, because he still had his pain inhibitors, he wasn't really in Ripper Mode just yet, he had simply let out the Ripper persona