Jevil Minor CRT

[Jepilstiltskin]

• Immortality Type 1 & 5
Jevil says multiple time before the end of the battle that his body “can't die” in which will be assume that Jevil's body can't die in a conventional way, as Kris/Susie/Ralsei attack him till his HP got to 0 but he still can't die... and he even says in the end that he will “nap for hundred years”, this prove that his body can't really die in a conventional sense.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Bump

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

I don't know, I don't think Jevil's very trustworthy. I could maybe see Type 1 Immortality, but Type 5's a bit farfetched.

 

[Greatsage13th]

At best this would be possibly type 5.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

You need to have references added, also would love a actual scan.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I don't think Jevil's very trustworthy

While the in-character for him seem to be "all-goofy", but his word is pure and can be taken as literally... we see this happens everytime mid-fight (i can do everything, an implication of "joker's card"), or even before the fight (HP thingy)

Even Sean, truly believes and his sense on the world awakens when he hears Jevil's word.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

You need to have references added, also would love a actual scan

Every scan comes from his fight, and i don't think i really needed to put it in the OP

Jevil said "this bodu can't die" after he's doing a FINAL CHAOS, iirc

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Every scan comes from his fight, and i don't think i really needed to put it in the OP

Jevil said "this bodu can't die" after he's doing a FINAL CHAOS, iirc

References are a necessity for CRT's and what they are implimneted to.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

You need to have references added, also would love a actual scan.

Here's Jevil saying that his body cannot be killed, and here's him saying that he'll sleep for one hundred years.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Bump

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Bump

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

While the in-character for him seem to be "all-goofy", but his word is pure and can be taken as literally... we see this happens everytime mid-fight (i can do everything, an implication of "joker's card"), or even before the fight (HP thingy)

Even Sean, truly believes and his sense on the world awakens when he hears Jevil's word.

Jevil's speech is more metaphorical than literal. For example, "I CAN DO ANYTHING!," while true if you consider using four different types suit-shaped projectiles instead of one "doing anything" (which is more than other Card Kingdom Darkners, but still not omnipotence), is probably meant as more of "I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES, SINCE THIS IS A GAME," and the whole "only free one" thing might be true metaphorically, but obviously not physically.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

is probably meant as more of "I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES, SINCE THIS IS A GAME," and the whole "only free one" thing might be true metaphorically, but obviously not physically.

This not how the game depicted him saying it, sadly.
Its probable, like you said, but it couldn't make sense more than the "Joker's Card"... given the fact that he literally can use all card element strentghen this.

Plus, we literally make his HP Bar to 0 yet he still lives like nothing just happened.

 

[Greatsage13th]

This not how the game depicted him saying it, sadly.
Its probable, like you said, but it couldn't make sense more than the "Joker's Card"... given the fact that he literally can use all card element strentghen this.

Plus, we literally make his HP Bar to 0 yet he still lives like nothing just happened.

Fair enough. I'll agree.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

This not how the game depicted him saying it, sadly.
Its probable, like you said, but it couldn't make sense more than the "Joker's Card"... given the fact that he literally can use all card element strentghen this.

I don't understand the argument. Regardless, this was just an example of Jevil being metaphorically right.

Plus, we literally make his HP Bar to 0 yet he still lives like nothing just happened.

With the obvious exception of Noelle's spells, depleting most characters' HP doesn't kill them:

• The party members are just "downed" and can get back up in a couple turns (including Susie as a boss);
• Most enemies run away, and some, like Clover, return later on;
• Lancer, C. Round, and Jigsaw Joe get knocked away and return later on (although Lancer does get hurt enough for Susie to stop the battle if his HP is depleted in the rematch, he's fine afterwards);
• The Sweet Cap'n Cakes, Spamton, Rouxls Kaard and Queen('s chair) are perfectly fine to heal or regroup;
• Pipis do actually turn to dust, but they may not be sentient, and are very much an exception;
• Spamton NEO explodes, but he then reappears relatively fine after the battle;
• GIGA Queen is damaged and runs out of battery power, but Queen quickly recharges and comes out fine.
• King, Berdly, and, yes, Jevil just get tired out.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I don't understand the argument. Regardless, this was just an example of Jevil being metaphorically right.

You're saying that the statement of Jepil "I CAN DO ANYTHING" is a metaphorical and thus "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" is the same, like, its gonna making any sense.
First, what you're giving as an argument there is not even canon-ish (I mean, where did you get that speculation from? Joker's Card is already proven to be the case fo I CAN DO ANYTHING)
Second, you're treating Jepil like he's a walking metaphorical being... like... what? So, his statement "NAP FOR HUNDRED YEARS" is a metaphor now? And what does it leads into, i mean, what's true purpose for that? And "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" too, how is this a metaphorical? We clearly see he's really into this "Knight" thingy that he's able to forsee the events coming... bro can't die to miss that out, am i right?

• The party members are just "downed" and can get back up in a couple turns (including Susie as a boss);
• Most enemies run away, and some, like Clover, return later on;
• Lancer, C. Round, and Jigsaw Joe get knocked away and return later on (although Lancer does get hurt enough for Susie to stop the battle if his HP is depleted in the rematch, he's fine afterwards);
• The Sweet Cap'n Cakes, Spamton, Rouxls Kaard and Queen('s chair) are perfectly fine to heal or regroup;
• Pipis do actually turn to dust, but they may not be sentient, and are very much an exception;
• Spamton NEO explodes, but he then reappears relatively fine after the battle;
• GIGA Queen is damaged and runs out of battery power, but Queen quickly recharges and comes out fine.
• King, Berdly, and, yes, Jevil just get tired out.

[*] I'm aware this is just a game-mechanic, not a canonish idea if ask me... because its not make any sensei if its canon, DT User is the only one who can DE-TERMINATION themself, Monster's Souls couldn't.
[*] This is not a perfect example either, because there is no such a path ending like Undertale does... No Genocide or Pacifist, them running is not a canon thing like Jevil's Game about "0HP", take it as they've never met.
[*] Susise attacks Lancer to the point he's hard to stand is already a debunk for this, yeah, Monster's can heal too... did you really think they couldn't? Ralsei even had a spell for that healing, if you said they couldn't it would be surprising.
[*] This goes back to my second argument, and like you said, heal.
[*] "An invasive species of freshwater clam" Spamton said this, so yeah, no, they're still a being/monster with soul... but just doesn't have any consciousness, i think we have that too IRL, doesn't mean they're not a being? right?
[*] The one that got destroyed is the armor, the CD itself which got Spamton in it remain unharm. Like you're destroying a CD box with a CD attached, the only thing that got destroyed is the box, right?
[*] That is not the Queen itself.
[*] I don't think 0HP there have a meaning like in Jepil's case, King get 0HP there is not the type of "dead" thingy rather than like "in this point, you lose!" because like i said, there is no such path like Undertale does where he have the choices to kill and etc.
While in Jevil's case its different, we do have a choice, we can kill him or act him (although its still have the same ending, i guess we don't have a choice, but slightly i guess we have)... Jevil 0HP is an actual thing or canon, because that's the whole point he's challenging us, he should bes death when we depleted his HP to 0, rather he just said "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" or "NAP FOR HUNDRED YEARS"

I really don't see why is this not a thing and just metaphorical, like i said earlier, there's no reason for Sean to "half" trusted him if his word is all metaphorical.
Yeah it doesn't make sense, but doesn't mean its not true.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

You're saying that the statement of Jepil "I CAN DO ANYTHING" is a metaphorical and thus "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" is the same, like, its gonna making any sense.

Second, you're treating Jepil like he's a walking metaphorical being... like... what?

I'm just saying that Jevil says a lot of metaphorically true stuff, so we can't rule out that being true for the quote you're defending.

First, what you're giving as an argument there is not even canon-ish (I mean, where did you get that speculation from? Joker's Card is already proven to be the case fo I CAN DO ANYTHING)

Is it? I think it's up for interpretation.

So, his statement "NAP FOR HUNDRED YEARS" is a metaphor now? And what does it leads into, i mean, what's true purpose for that?

I don't actually think that part is metaphorical.

And "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" too, how is this a metaphorical?

Dunno. Could mean that he'll return if the game he knows he's in is reset, but we can't assume any explanation with so little information.

We clearly see he's really into this "Knight" thingy that he's able to forsee the events coming... bro can't die to miss that out, am i right?

I don't see what you are arguing here.

[*] I'm aware this is just a game-mechanic, not a canonish idea if ask me... because its not make any sensei if its canon, DT User is the only one who can DE-TERMINATION themself, Monster's Souls couldn't.

It very much makes sense if you consider that they're only unconscious when their HP runs out.

[*] This is not a perfect example either, because there is no such a path ending like Undertale does... No Genocide or Pacifist, them running is not a canon thing like Jevil's Game about "0HP", take it as they've never met.

There is literally a different ending if you beat up enemies in Chapter 1. Also, in Card Castle, a bunch of enemies remember if you beat them up.

[*] Susise attacks Lancer to the point he's hard to stand is already a debunk for this, yeah, Monster's can heal too... did you really think they couldn't? Ralsei even had a spell for that healing, if you said they couldn't it would be surprising.

Yes, but they almost always have the green sparkle effect, which isn't shown after any of these battles.

[*] This goes back to my second argument, and like you said, heal.

What argument?

[*] "An invasive species of freshwater clam" Spamton said this, so yeah, no, they're still a being/monster with soul... but just doesn't have any consciousness, i think we have that too IRL, doesn't mean they're not a being? right?

It's not clear what they are. The check description cals them clams, Spamton calls them eggs, and Noelle's blog implies them to be glitches in a game. Regardless, they can very much be just an exception to the rule.

[*] The one that got destroyed is the armor, the CD itself which got Spamton in it remain unharm. Like you're destroying a CD box with a CD attached, the only thing that got destroyed is the box, right?
[*] That is not the Queen itself.

Okay. My point still stands, though.

[*] I don't think 0HP there have a meaning like in Jepil's case, King get 0HP there is not the type of "dead" thingy rather than like "in this point, you lose!" because like i said, there is no such path like Undertale does where he have the choices to kill and etc.
While in Jevil's case its different, we do have a choice, we can kill him or act him (although its still have the same ending, i guess we don't have a choice, but slightly i guess we have)... Jevil 0HP is an actual thing or canon, because that's the whole point he's challenging us, he should bes death when we depleted his HP to 0, rather he just said "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" or "NAP FOR HUNDRED YEARS"

I see no difference between King's and Jevil's cases. Both can be beaten by tiring them out or by beating them up, and both have very similar cutscenes afterwards where they're just tired out after both ways.

I really don't see why is this not a thing and just metaphorical, like i said earlier, there's no reason for Sean to "half" trusted him if his word is all metaphorical.
Yeah it doesn't make sense, but doesn't mean its not true.

Seam doesn't say they "half" trust Jevil, they say his words "didn't completely make sense, but didn't completely not make sense, either," which could very much apply if they don't make sense literally, but do metaphorically.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I'm just saying that Jevil says a lot of metaphorically true stuff, so we can't rule out that being true for the quote you're defending.

Can you list of this "lot of"? Yeah i'm aware he did some metaphorical shit, but doesn't mean most of them were too... Like, how is a blatant statement like "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" be metaphorical??

I don't actually think that part is metaphorical.

Following by your logic that Jevil says "lot of" metaphorical thing.

Dunno. Could mean that he'll return if the game he knows he's in is reset, but we can't assume any explanation with so little information.

"Dunno"...
...
"But we can't assume" yet you just assume that "he's return of the game, etc etc".
Plus, how is that even relevant to his body can't die like, at all?

I don't see what you are arguing here.

Me too, forget about that.

It very much makes sense if you consider that they're only unconscious when their HP runs out.

Its very much not canonically.
Its either game-mechanic or because the souls physiology (the case that human souls can still lives, or in Asgore's Cases that his soul is still alive even though his body isn't.

There is literally a different ending if you beat up enemies in Chapter 1. Also, in Card Castle, a bunch of enemies remember if you beat them up.

Hmmm, okay then, it is canon.
But like i said, Deltarune is not like Undertale where you really have a choice of "killing"... Him FIGHT-ing the Darkners is not like a murdereous thing, but rather a street fight or some kinda shit.
Jevil's case here is different, you actually have a choice to kill him by depleting his HP to 0, like actually.

Yes, but they almost always have the green sparkle effect, which isn't shown after any of these battles.

Well Kris too can heal with his food, does it shows green sparkle? Or when he SAVE, is there an effect around him?
Of course no, ITS a game, it have limited graphic design.

What argument?

The Sussie healing part.

It's not clear what they are. The check description cals them clams, Spamton calls them eggs, and Noelle's blog implies them to be glitches in a game. Regardless, they can very much be just an exception to the rule.

Its already clear, Spamton calls them eggs because they resemblance an egg... If i call you pookie bear because you're cute, does it mean that you 're an actual pookie bear? Hell no.
"Noelle's blog implies them to be glitches in a game" Their world is literally called as "CYBER" and its Fountain is literally located in a computer, of course they are made of data (in the perspective of lightners), Jevil's too is just a card... Doesn't mean he's not a monster without a soul like lightners do.

Okay. My point still stands, though.

What stands? You're giving a wrong example.

I see no difference between King's and Jevil's cases. Both can be beaten by tiring them out or by beating them up, and both have very similar cutscenes afterwards where they're just tired out after both ways.

There is a difference, there's no canonical idea that we could kill King... While Jevil on the other hand, there is.

Seam doesn't say they "half" trust Jevil, they say his words "didn't completely make sense, but didn't completely not make sense, either," which could very much apply if they don't make sense literally, but do metaphorically.

I meant to say it that way, and no, Sean didn't say that because Jevil's being metaphorical, instead he says it like "this guy so crazy, but his word is actually not"... Like that, or some sort.

Its like Jevil throwing hard-truth of realities to him and in response Sean disagree, but couldn't fully disagree either because it makes sense.
I want to say more about this but my english is very limited, but i hope this clear out.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Can you list of this "lot of"? Yeah i'm aware he did some metaphorical shit, but doesn't mean most of them were too...

...Okay, so there's less of it than I remember, 'cause I can't think of anything else, I'll admit.

Like, how is a blatant statement like "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" be metaphorical??

I already gave an example:

Could mean that he'll return if the game he knows he's in is reset

Following by your logic that Jevil says "lot of" metaphorical thing.

Touché. I suppose I have been arguing mostly out of vibes. I guess you can count me as neutral to this proposal, since now I have no reason to believe either theory. Will still argue against your other points, though, since I do think they're pretty weak.

"Dunno"...
...
"But we can't assume" yet you just assume that "he's return of the game, etc etc".
Plus, how is that even relevant to his body can't die like, at all?

I was just offering another explanation to the quote (that he can be killed normally, but knows that he will return when the game is reset, as if he was never killed), and saying that, since it's just as valid an interpretation as your literal one, we can't assume either, and therefore can't add abilites based only on either.

Its very much not canonically.

Is it not, though? Occam's Razor seems to favor my hypothesis.

Its either game-mechanic or because the souls physiology (the case that human souls can still lives, or in Asgore's Cases that his soul is still alive even though his body isn't.

Again, them not dying is too reasonable and too consistent with the rest of the game to be so easily dismissable as game mechanics, and the SOUL shenanigans fall apart when you consider Susie also gets up after a while if you deplete her HP as an enemy.

Hmmm, okay then, it is canon.
But like i said, Deltarune is not like Undertale where you really have a choice of "killing"... Him FIGHT-ing the Darkners is not like a murdereous thing, but rather a street fight or some kinda shit.
Jevil's case here is different, you actually have a choice to kill him by depleting his HP to 0, like actually.

How is Jevil's case different, though? To argue that Jevil can't be killed, you're arguing that you can actually choose to kill Jevil, which seems paradoxical to me.

Well Kris too can heal with his food, does it shows green sparkle? Or when he SAVE, is there an effect around him?
Of course no, ITS a game, it have limited graphic design.

Items do actually use the green sparkle animation. Heck, I think Spamton NEO's healing is the only one that doesn't use it. As for SAVING, I don't think it's relevant to this discussion.

Its already clear, Spamton calls them eggs because they resemblance an egg... If i call you pookie bear because you're cute, does it mean that you 're an actual pookie bear? Hell no.
"Noelle's blog implies them to be glitches in a game" Their world is literally called as "CYBER" and its Fountain is literally located in a computer, of course they are made of data (in the perspective of lightners), Jevil's too is just a card... Doesn't mean he's not a monster without a soul like lightners do.

It doesn't really matter what they are. Point is, they're pretty fragile and break even for their own attacks, so they can just be an exception.

What stands? You're giving a wrong example.

The other examples still work.

There is a difference, there's no canonical idea that we could kill King... While Jevil on the other hand, there is.

Where is it for Jevil, then? The HP thing doesn't count, since interpreting it like this already assumes that characters die when it reaches zero.

I meant to say it that way, and no, Sean didn't say that because Jevil's being metaphorical, instead he says it like "this guy so crazy, but his word is actually not"... Like that, or some sort.

Its like Jevil throwing hard-truth of realities to him and in response Sean disagree, but couldn't fully disagree either because it makes sense.

That's just a matter of interpretation. For reference, here's Seam's full speech about Jevil:

He... was a funny little man. Once, the court jester. I, the court magician. A friend...? Could I consider him a friend...? Perhaps, perhaps not. But he was the only one who matched me in the games we used to play. One day, he met a strange someone... and since then, he began to change. He started saying bizarre things that didn't completely make sense - But didn't completely not make sense, either. Soon, he began to see the world as a game, and everyone as its participants. As the court mage, and his only companion, I was forced to lock him away... Or, rather, lock US all away, in his own words. Since that time, the strange words he's said have stuck inside my cotton... And my view of this world has become darker, yet darker. Reflecting on these old memories, I think, perhaps - I miss playing games with him. And I wonder, if I hadn't been asked to lock him up... Would I have found a little more purpose in my life...?

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

neutral to this proposal

Aigh't.

I was just offering another explanation to the quote (that he can be killed normally, but knows that he will return when the game is reset, as if he was never killed), and saying that, since it's just as valid an interpretation as your literal one, we can't assume either, and therefore can't add abilites based only on either.

That seems not likely, and headcanon if you ask me.
The statement itself is already clear "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE", there's really no use of it being a metaphorical.

Is it not, though? Occam's Razor seems to favor my hypothesis.

Then you could say mine the same, there's really no hard-intent of Jevil being metaphorical there.

Again, them not dying is too reasonable and too consistent with the rest of the game to be so easily dismissable as game mechanics

Most of RPG Game literally do this kinda "revive" thing, such as PUBG for example.
When you go party, if you're down, you'll not automatically die... Solo on the other hand is not, you'll instantly die when you get knocked by the enemies.

How is Jevil's case different, though? To argue that Jevil can't be killed, you're arguing that you can actually choose to kill Jevil, which seems paradoxical to me.

What i meant is we have a choice to fight in order to kill, but Jevil's body is can't truly die... Not that i say we can kill him thus he dies.

Items do actually use the green sparkle animation. Heck, I think Spamton NEO's healing is the only one that doesn't use it. As for SAVING, I don't think it's relevant to this discussion.

That's inbattle most of the healings i arguments here is outside the, and yes, SAVING does relevant... It heals.

It doesn't really matter what they are. Point is, they're pretty fragile and break even for their own attacks, so they can just be an exception.

Crab Species irl too is fragile (When they're still an Egg, Baby, even in Adult age), most of them dies because of the sea shore. Doesn't mean they're not a living being.

Where is it for Jevil, then? The HP thing doesn't count, since interpreting it like this already assumes that characters die when it reaches zero.

He should be dieing, but he can't, because his body "CAN'T DIE"... That's the whole point'.

That's just a matter of interpretation. For reference, here's Seam's full speech about Jevil:

ITS not an open Interpretation, where do you even suggest Sean talking like that because Jevil's being metaphorical?
Why does every blatant statement is considered to be metaphorical, with.

"My view of this world become darker" this would not be possible if Jevil's being metaphorical, HE'S LITERALLY TELLING THE TRUTH

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

That seems not likely, and headcanon if you ask me.
The statement itself is already clear "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE", there's really no use of it being a metaphorical.

Then you could say mine the same, there's really no hard-intent of Jevil being metaphorical there.

Fair enough.

Most of RPG Game literally do this kinda "revive" thing, such as PUBG for example.
When you go party, if you're down, you'll not automatically die... Solo on the other hand is not, you'll instantly die when you get knocked by the enemies.

Again, there's no in-universe reason to believe that characters die when their HP runs out.

What i meant is we have a choice to fight in order to kill, but Jevil's body is can't truly die... Not that i say we can kill him thus he dies.

Almost all of the battles have a violent ending that doesn't kill the enemies.

That's inbattle most of the healings i arguments here is outside the, and yes, SAVING does relevant... It heals.

Forgot about that. Still, healing spells use the green sparkle effect in cutscenes too.

Crab Species irl too is fragile (When they're still an Egg, Baby, even in Adult age), most of them dies because of the sea shore. Doesn't mean they're not a living being.

Whatever. Still just one exception.

He should be dieing, but he can't, because his body "CAN'T DIE"... That's the whole point'.

No, he shouldn't.

ITS not an open Interpretation, where do you even suggest Sean talking like that because Jevil's being metaphorical?
Why does every blatant statement is considered to be metaphorical, with.

"My view of this world become darker" this would not be possible if Jevil's being metaphorical, HE'S LITERALLY TELLING THE TRUTH

Seam could've been affected by the "NOTHING IS REAL" thing, even though he knows parts of what Jevil says isn't true, like the freedom thing.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

bump

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Bump

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Bump

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

bump

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Jevil says multiple time before the end of the battle that his body “can't die” in which will be assume that Jevil's body can't die in a conventional way, as Kris/Susie/Ralsei attack him till his HP got to 0 but he still can't die... and he even says in the end that he will “nap for hundred years”, this prove that his body can't really die in a conventional sense.

This simply is not true. If you defeat Jevil with Ralsei's Pacify spell, which obviously puts tired enemies to sleep, he will "sleep for the other 100 years," but if you defeat him violently, he will turn into Devilsknife and bequeath himself to Kris.

You're implying Jevil would merely be forced into a slumber, instead of dying, if attacked until his HP is 0, but as I just explained, he doesn't fall asleep if he's defeated violently, and has others have explained, depleting an a character's HP to 0 in Deltarune does not inherently mean death. Thus, I disagree with all proposals.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

This simply is not true. If you defeat Jevil with Ralsei's Pacify spell, which obviously puts tired enemies to sleep, he will "sleep for the other 100 years," but if you defeat him violently, he will turn into Devilsknife and bequeath himself to Kris.

All of this making his claim, which is "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" to be true.

You're implying Jevil would merely be forced into a slumber, instead of dying, if attacked until his HP is 0

I never imply it that way.
I brought that scan to justify his claim, "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE"... Because if i take that statement without any justification, then the statement would be unreliable.

he doesn't fall asleep if he's defeated violently

Yes, and? How does this debunk my proposals again????
Yes he doesn't sleep because Ralsei didn't put the pacity spell on him, even then, you actually violent towards him until his HP reach 0 wouldn't make him die or anything... Literally justifying, his claim about "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE".
I don't know why it can't go through your head, its pretty clear lmao.

depleting an a character's HP to 0 in Deltarune does not inherently mean death

Yes, by default.
But no in this one, because at start of the fight they are already aware of depleting each others HP... Simply said that The Heroes, are actually fighting (like real fighting) Jevil till death, which we know later that his Body can't die (again), so he doesn't really have to go through that (Dying).

Even then, you didn't really debunk the proposals i did here, huh.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I brought that scan to justify his claim, "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE"... Because if i take that statement without any justification, then the statement would be unreliable.

Well, yeah, the statement is unreliable because there is no real evidence to confirm it. Jevil being pacified, put to sleep, by the spell that explicitly puts enemies to sleep is in no way, shape, or form any justification for immortality of any kind. Completely absurd of you to even try that.

you actually violent towards him until his HP reach 0 wouldn't make him die or anything... Literally justifying, his claim about "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE".

Simply said that The Heroes, are actually fighting (like real fighting) Jevil till death, which we know later that his Body can't die (again), so he doesn't really have to go through that (Dying).

You need to prove the Lightners were actually fighting with lethal intent. That's your burden of proof. There's more reason to believe they're not trying to kill Jevil, considering they refuse to kill The King, someone who similarly wanted to kill them, even when defeating him violently. Hell, when Suzie is recklessly attacking every enemy, presumably with little regard for their lives, she never manages to kill anyone, so even if you wanted to pretend like the Lightners wanted to kill Jevil, depleting his HP to 0, even with lethal intent, is not inherently fatal.

Even then, you didn't really debunk the proposals i did here, huh.

You can't debunk what was never adequately proven in the first place.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Well, yeah, the statement is unreliable because there is no real evidence to confirm it. Jevil being pacified, put to sleep, by the spell that explicitly puts enemies to sleep is in no way, shape, or form any justification for immortality of any kind. Completely absurd of you to even try that.

That's not how scaling works, he saying "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" is the first context, him not dying after we brutally depleted his HP to 0 but not dying is the first evidence that his statement is true... And, his body CAN'T even "aging" (If you said that this comes from Ralsei Pacity spell, then you're cooked).

You honestly don't need to spoonfeed everything, otherwise most of the character profile in VSB would lost their abilities... Which is ridiculous, there's a thing called "scaling" brutha.

And one thing, what i propose above is still relevant to Jevil statement... ITS not like i throw "Head" and "Tail" and matches them, they were not goes hand in hand lmao.

You need to prove the Lightners were actually fighting with lethal intent. That's your burden of proof.

Literally the first they met Jevil.
Jevil canonically invites them to a real fight till death, depleting each others HP to 0... I don't specifically needs to prove anything, because honestly, it have to be you that their fight is not actually a "real fight till death".

There's more reason to believe they're not trying to kill Jevil, considering they refuse to kill The King, someone who similarly wanted to kill them, even when defeating him violently.

The King there have the similar effect as Asgore... Both have the will to still lives (Even Kris, Susie and Ralsei).
IT'S not like they were not dying, no lmao, they will eventually do... Did Jevil shower any kind of "dying" after the fight? You'll be a con if you said he did.

Hell, when Suzie is recklessly attacking every enemy, presumably with little regard for their lives, she never manages to kill anyone, so even if you wanted to pretend like the Lightners wanted to kill Jevil, depleting his HP to 0, even with lethal intent, is not inherently fatal.

She never managed because her enemy is running away, what are you trying to prove here.
Stop it. Really.

You can't debunk what was never adequately proven in the first place.

?????

 

[Lukewoesal007]

The King there have the similar effect as Asgore... Both have the will to still lives (Even Kris, Susie and Ralsei).
IT'S not like they were not dying, no lmao, they will eventually do... Did Jevil shower any kind of "dying" after the fight? You'll be a con if you said he did.

That's not how scaling works, he saying "THIS BODY CAN'T DIE" is the first context, him not dying after we brutally depleted his HP to 0 but not dying is the first evidence that his statement is true... And, his body CAN'T even "aging" (If you said that this comes from Ralsei Pacity spell, then you're cooked).

The issue with your argument is that it hinges on the ultimately baseless, unsubstantiated assumption that either the Lightners were trying to kill Jevil or that they would've done so by depleting his HP to 0. You have failed to provide a proper basis for either of these arguments, and there is even evidence which directly contradicts them.

Firstly, let's examine what Jevil actually says before his fight and the nature of his game. Jevil describes his fight as a "simple numbers game," where the Lightners "lose" if their HP drops to 0. Without context, this may seem like just a threat from Jevil, told in colorful language, but it's heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, by Spamton in his Sweepstakes interview that he and Jevil have played the "game" before, with Spamton stating that, despite cheating, he has lost multiple times against Jevil, meaning his HP has been drained to 0 more than once. Keep in mind we accept all of this on-wiki, as per Jevil's profile:

Attack Potency: Small Building level (Stated to be superior to Spamton, as Jevil is the one he referred to as "Clown". Given Spamton's implications about Jevil's "games" and his knowledge on Jevil's scythe, Jevil's superiority seems to lie in strength. Able to deal more damage than both King and Susie in Chapter 1)

Given how you fight Spamton after Jevil, and Spamton is evidently not dead, it becomes clear that Jevil's game isn't necessarily a fatal one. In order for this revision to pass, you would have to base your argument on an assumption which directly contradicts the contents of an already-established profile. That alone should be enough of a basis to reject the thread, but for the sake of thoroughness, I will cover the other aspect of the argument.

Even if you were to incredulously ignore what I just said, claiming that Jevil did, in fact, earnestly want to kill the Lightners, fights that are initially framed as "battles to the death," such as The King, Spamton NEO, and even certain common enemies like the Ponmen, do not end in any deaths, even if the Lightners defeat their enemies violently. What this shows is that, while the Lighteners may be willing to fight enemies who would, supposedly, kill them, such as with Jevil, they either cannot or do not choose to inflict a lethal amount of force, given how, again, none of the aforementioned enemies die.

What's more is that, as I stated before, depleting an enemy's HP to 0, even with a reckless, brutal intention, like with Suzie in Chapter 1, does not translate to death.

She never managed because her enemy is running away, what are you trying to prove here.

-Which is why you completely missed my argument here. The point is not that she never managed to kill anything; the point is that, despite the likelihood she used enough force to potentially kill, and she depleted enemies' HP to 0, the Lightners never kill any of the Darkners in Chapter 1. What I'm proving is that, even when coupled with the intent to kill or otherwise severely harm, dropping HP to 0 does not kill. The throughline is that HP does not represent an entire character's life, and thus depleting it to 0 would not kill.

I do not feel this needs to be discussed further.