Jibaku Shounen - CRT

[Arianninc]

Spoiler: Cosmology

This place that is everywhere and nowhere is a place in Toilet Bound Hanako-Kun series.

This place is very mysterious because there are only an infinite number of doors, but each of these doors is a world, which means 1 door is 1 world and this place has infinite doors which means this place has infinite worlds because each of these doors is a world, these doors have different times and we can even reach the past, present and future.

not just a statement, but this is also proven when Nene enters the 1 door that leads to the World with the past time.

Based on the Tiering System in this wiki, this place should be rated 2-A

Spoiler: Scaling

The Clock Keepers are placed by god-like entities, they have control over all time streams both in the past, present and future, but the entities in this place are divided into three people to respectively guard the time streams.

Kako - controls past time
Aoi Akane - controls present time
Mirai - controls future time

These three are the ones who control the flow of time in this Series.

In the New Present Arc, The Clock Keepers entity changes history so that it makes people forget about previous events, for example Nene who originally knew and was friends with Minamoto Kou but after the history changes made by The Clock Keepers, Nene now does not know Minamoto Kou.

From here, The Clock Keepers entity must scale to Cosmology which is 2-A because they made changes that caused everything.

Yugi Tsukasa must also scale them because Tsukasa once fought them and won easily, although after Tsukasa won from The Clock Keepers entity they will rise again by rewinding time, but still Tsukasa is stronger than them even they cannot provide resistance when fighting against Tsukasa.

The 2-A scale list is:
The Clock Keepers
Yugi Tsukasa
Yugi Amane/Hanako-Kun

Power scaling chain:
Yugi Tsukasa/Yugi Ama ne>The Clock Keepers

Spoiler: Ability

Time Manipulation, Time Stop and Age Manipulation

As the guardians of the Clock they have a variety of abilities, be it stopping the rewinding or advancing of time itself.

Kako can rewind a person's time so that the person seems to go back in time.

Mirai can advance a person's time so that the person becomes an adult.

And Aoi's ability to stop time itself although she is limited because she is the weakest.

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[The_Emperor4th]

This place that is everywhere and nowhere is a place in Toilet Bound Hanako-Kun series.

This place is very mysterious because there are only an infinite number of doors, but each of these doors is a world, which means 1 door is 1 world and this place has infinite doors which means this place has infinite worlds because each of these doors is a world, these doors have different times and we can even reach the past, present and future.

not just a statement, but this is also proven when Nene enters the 1 door that leads to the World with the past time.

Based on the Tiering System in this wiki, this place should be rated 2-A

This is fine.

The Clock Keepers are placed by god-like entities, they have control over all time streams both in the past, present and future, but the entities in this place are divided into three people to respectively guard the time streams.

Alright.

In the New Present Arc, The Clock Keepers entity changes history so that it makes people forget about previous events, for example Nene who originally knew and was friends with Minamoto Kou but after the history changes made by The Clock Keepers, Nene now does not know Minamoto Kou.

This seems more like Time hax + Memory hax with range imo.

From here, The Clock Keepers entity must scale to Cosmology which is 2-A because they made changes that caused everything.

Is there any proof that their time manipulation ever been shown to reach all the worlds? By all the worlds I mean all the Infinite doors?

Because from what I can see on his feats, it can only changed/effect the history in one world.

The rest seems fine.

 

[Arianninc]

any proof that their time manipulation ever been shown to reach all the worlds? By all the worlds I mean all the Infinite doors?

Because from what I can see on his feats, it can only changed/effect the history in one world.

The rest seems fine.

It was my fault for forgetting to put it, here.

The translation is a bit blurry but it doesn't matter, you just need to look at the bottom like.

"but Hanako-kun was too late and Mystery Number One caused changes in the whole world."

or

"but Hanako-kun was too late and caused a change in the world."

This seems more like Time hax + Memory hax with range imo.

In the synopsis it is said that they changed history to eliminate "IT" which is the root of all the problems in the series, and history also allows memories even if a person's history is changed, they often lose their memories.

The Clock Keeper goal is to eliminate the root of the problem as well as eliminate all the spirits and monsters, in simple terms they want to eliminate everyone who has powers. and yes it happened even Hanako-kun is now an ordinary person.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

It was my fault for forgetting to put it, here.

The translation is a bit blurry but it doesn't matter, you just need to look at the bottom like.

"but Hanako-kun was too late and Mystery Number One caused changes in the whole world."

or

"but Hanako-kun was too late and caused a change in the world."

From a glance, it seems that the translation doesn’t have much difference between this two MTL, since they have 全世界 which means “the whole world”.

I guess you’re right on this part, but I suggest you need to double check the translation with someone who is knowledgeable on Japanese Language.

In the synopsis it is said that they changed history to eliminate "IT" which is the root of all the problems in the series, and history also allows memories even if a person's history is changed, they often lose their memories.

You need to provide a scan for this “IT” stuff, because changing the history of the world by default, would be some kind of hax stuff and range, it could be causality manipulation, time manipulation, etc. Unless there’s some other explanation about it.

From what i’ve seen, this should be Causality, Time and Memory manipulation.

The Clock Keeper goal is to eliminate the root of the problem as well as eliminate all the spirits and monsters, in simple terms they want to eliminate everyone who has powers. and yes it happened even Hanako-kun is now an ordinary person.

This explanation seems even more like hax with range rather than AP imo.

 

[Arianninc]

This explanation seems even more like hax with range rather than AP imo.

They change it by using yorishiro, something very close to the supernatural.

It is said by Sakura that if yorishiro are used for something or destroyed, they will make changes in the whole world as well as living and non-living things.

The world in the series has a balance between the human world and the supernatural world, the supernatural world has many places be it towers, mirrors, doors and boundaries.

And the nature of the supernatural world in this series depends on the supernatural and rumors, if the supernatural is destroyed then their place of residence is also destroyed and disappears.

Here it is clear that the changes they make are not just ordinary changes, but also erase the world as well.

Will this only give you Range? I don't think so, because they affected the rumor so that the existing one becomes non-existent.

I guess you’re right on this part, but I suggest you need to double check the translation with someone who is knowledgeable on Japanese Language.

I very rarely have friends~~

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks okay from a glance.

 

[Arianninc]

Looks okay from a glance.

what do you think about scaling part? Is it range of hax or AP?

 

[The_Emperor4th]

They change it by using yorishiro, something very close to the supernatural.

It is said by Sakura that if yorishiro are used for something or destroyed, they will make changes in the whole world as well as living and non-living things.

This seems to imply that Yorishiro can EE something, good another abilities.

Me erasing all people in the city doesn’t necessarily make me level city.

The world in the series has a balance between the human world and the supernatural world, the supernatural world has many places be it towers, mirrors, doors and boundaries.

And the nature of the supernatural world in this series depends on the supernatural and rumors, if the supernatural is destroyed then their place of residence is also destroyed and disappears.

Really? do you have the scan for this? because if that supernatural are really the world itself, then this is fine.

Here it is clear that the changes they make are not just ordinary changes, but also erase the world as well.

Will this only give you Range? I don't think so, because they affected the rumor so that the existing one becomes non-existent.

But your scan doesn’t say that the world got erased? no?

I’m sorry, but I still stance with the range and hax as per now. Going through the scan and the explanations, I feel like the evidence that has been presented doesn’t really much support or explain about the correlation between the supernatural and the world itself.

 

[Arianninc]

But your scan doesn’t say that the world got erased? no?

Did you not see the scan that I just gave you? Or did you not understand it well enough about it? In the scan it says that if Yorishiro is destroyed it will make both life and non-life disappear, and even their places disappear too. The meaning of "both regions" in the scan refers to the supernatural world and the human world because they each have a place to live.

Really? do you have the scan for this? because if that supernatural are really the world itself, then this is fine.

that's not it bro... the supernatural is not the world itself. I already said there that the series has a balance of "Human world and supernatural world", not that the supernatural is the world.

your reply further misses my explanation, "because if that supernatural is really the world itself" WHAT? when did I say that supernatural is the world itself?

This seems to imply that Yorishiro can EE something, good another abilities.

Me erasing all people in the city doesn’t necessarily make me level city.

I’m sorry, but I still stance with the range and hax as per now. Going through the scan and the explanations, I feel like the evidence that has been presented doesn’t really much support or explain about the correlation between the supernatural and the world itself.

yes, it is EE if you delete it.

"me erasing all people in the city doesn’t necessarily make me level city."

YES and NO, if from your explanation it can't, but here not only erasing a person but their place as well and the place in the explanation I made here is 2-A whether erasing a 2-A place will not get 2-A as well? explain.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Did you not see the scan that I just gave you? Or did you not understand it well enough about it? In the scan it says that if Yorishiro is destroyed it will make both life and non-life disappear, and even their places disappear too. The meaning of "both regions" in the scan refers to the supernatural world and the human world because they each have a place to live.

Oh, I see and understand the scan well enough just as you said, except that my point is: they are not really explaining much about the correlation between the supernatural world and human world (i.e. how does that supernatural has to do/can scale with the world?)

The “both regions” text seems like a weird and vague to interpret it, are you sure that they literally mean the world? not just region?

Which is next I said earlier:

Really? do you have the scan for this? because if that supernatural are really the world itself, then this is fine.

that's not it bro... the supernatural is not the world itself. I already said there that the series has a balance of "Human world and supernatural world", not that the supernatural is the world.

your reply further misses my explanation, "because if that supernatural is really the world itself" WHAT? when did I say that supernatural is the world itself?

I think you misunderstanding what I’m saying, so I repeat it again: Do you have any scan about the balance of human world and supernatural world? Like how does they can get scale alongside with the human world? Or is it that the supernatural world are actually the world itself? Or any further evidence?

Because you yourself said up there that: “the supernatural world has many places be it towers, mirrors, doors and boundaries”.

And thus why I have an interpretation that the supernatural world can/could be the world itself.

explain

Explain what? you’re the one who need to explain why, the burden is on you.

 

[Arianninc]

Oh, I see and understand the scan well enough just as you said, except that my point is: they are not really explaining much about the correlation between the supernatural world and human world (i.e. how does that supernatural has to do/can scale with the world?)

The “both regions” text seems like a weird and vague to interpret it, are you sure that they literally mean the world? not just region?

I think you misunderstanding what I’m saying, so I repeat it again: Do you have any scan about the balance of human world and supernatural world? Like how does they can get scale alongside with the human world? Or is it that the supernatural world are actually the world itself? Or any further evidence?

Because you yourself said up there that: “the supernatural world has many places be it towers, mirrors, doors and boundaries”.

And thus why I have an interpretation that the supernatural world can/could be the world itself.

It's a world, because in this series, there are two concepts of the world: the human world and the supernatural world.

"supernatural are really the world itself"

It's clear from these words that you think the supernatural is the world itself. That's why I answered as above.

"Or is it that the supernatural world are actually the world itself? Or any further evidence?"

Of course, the supernatural world is called the underworld there but each place they are named differently for example "Fake World" the supernatural world created by the 4th Mystery this world is very similar to the real world because things that exist in the real world exist here.

Explain what? you’re the one who need to explain why, the burden is on you.

I'm giving here not just a person but also a world/cosmology, I don't know why you would say that.

If what you said was true, not everything would be at that level, but it's different here, so I need an explanation from you as to why someone who removes the 2-A structure wouldn't get 2-A

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[The_Emperor4th]

bump

8 hour per bump.

Also you did not address some of my issues especially the text one since it is kinda important.

 

[Arianninc]

8 hour per bump.

Also you did not address some of my issues especially the text one since it is kinda important.

I know, but it's been a few days since my thread was visited by someone...

what's the problem? and where? it's very difficult for me because I just joined here

 

[The_Emperor4th]

I know, but it's been a few days since my thread was visited by someone...

Not sure what you mean by this but it is the rules, if there’s nobody that come to the thread, the most common way is to just called the staff to evaluate the thread.

what's the problem? and where? it's very difficult for me because I just joined here

Here you go:

The “both regions” text seems like a weird and vague to interpret it, are you sure that they literally mean the world? not just region?

Also to add more and just to confirm some things: So in this verse, it is assumed that everything has to do with the supernatural things, including the world (by world I mean with our world standard). Am I right here?

So there is this thing called Yorishiro, which is been stated that capable to destroy all living and non living (such as human, monster, going on with the scan).

And thus why you say that it also means that they are also capable to destroying even the world, because without this all supernatural, the world would be not existed? Even the human world?

 

[Arianninc]

Not sure what you mean by this but it is the rules, if there’s nobody that come to the thread, the most common way is to just called the staff to evaluate the thread.


Here you go:


Also to add more and just to confirm some things: So in this verse, it is assumed that everything has to do with the supernatural things, including the world (by world I mean with our world standard). Am I right here?

So there is this thing called Yorishiro, which is been stated that capable to destroy all living and non living (such as human, monster, going on with the scan).

And thus why you say that it also means that they are also capable to destroying even the world, because without this all supernatural, the world would be not existed? Even the human world?

the concept in this series is that if he kills supernatural beings, then everything related to supernatural beings will disappear, such as rumors, and the rumors themselves create their existence and the place they live in. well if we kill them so that their rumors disappear, then the place he lives in will also disappear.

do you mean "is their world the same as our world that has its own concept of time?"

 

[Algaan]

This seems more like Time hax + Memory hax with range imo.

What is your reasoning for saying that this only goes into Range and not Attack Potency? Is it because he uses hax to do it?

Btw Hax can also increase Attack Potency although not always.

There was once a debate by admod and staff to validate about Hax = Attack Potency, indeed the result was not approved to increase AP through Hax, but limited to some level.

You can see it here

Based on the vote, the thread agreed to increase Attack Potency through Hax, but it only applies to Tier 2 and above, if less than that it cannot.

And yes, the OP thread here is completely in line with that debate because the OP here brought up Topic 2-A, so I think it's fine.

 

[Algaan]

I agree

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[Memonto_Mori]

2A cosmology looks good (I think it should be accepted unless there is a translation error) Do the watchmen make the changes in the cosmology by their own power or by a hax? If they do it by their own power, I agree with scaling 2A.

 

[Arianninc]

2A cosmology looks good (I think it should be accepted unless there is a translation error) Do the watchmen make the changes in the cosmology by their own power or by a hax? If they do it by their own power, I agree with scaling 2A.

Cosmology has actually been submitted here and it has been accepted by some staff, but I made it again to explain it completely.

They make changes using Yorishiro, but Yorishiro is also part of their natural power.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

They make changes using Yorishiro, but Yorishiro is also part of their natural power.

so I see no problem in accepting it

 

[The_Emperor4th]

What is your reasoning for saying that this only goes into Range and not Attack Potency? Is it because he uses hax to do it?

Are you even read what I am actually responding to?

Btw Hax can also increase Attack Potency although not always.

I disagree with hax will always be index/scale to the AP, it should be case by case basis no matter what consequences.

You can see it here

I am aware of that thread.

The thread is still on going process and not even done yet.

the concept in this series is that if he kills supernatural beings, then everything related to supernatural beings will disappear, such as rumors, and the rumors themselves create their existence and the place they live in. well if we kill them so that their rumors disappear, then the place he lives in will also disappear.

Indeed. But I do need the scan for this, just to make sure.

do you mean "is their world the same as our world that has its own concept of time?"

That’s not what I mean actually, but whatever.

 

[Arianninc]

Indeed. But I do need the scan for this, just to make sure.

ah I just got back... here

 

[Algaan]

Are you even read what I am actually responding to?


I disagree with hax will always be index/scale to the AP, it should be case by case basis no matter what consequences.


I am aware of that thread.

The thread is still on going process and not even done yet.

I've seen it, but it still doesn't change what I thought before.

whereas if we affect structures and 2-A we can also do 2-A AP, for example The Ultimate Nullifier from Marvel Comics, he affects structures that are Low 2-C in size, and he gets AP according to what he affects.

I know this thread is still running, but there are many characters out there who can do AP through Hax as I gave above, so I think it's fine to implement it, unless this thread ends in disagreement.

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[Arianninc]

uh, I need someone who has authority here.

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[Arianninc]

bump

 

[Catzlaflame]

cosmology is fine, long as the translation checks out.

I am very confused as to what you are trying to say with the yoshiro thing in your response’s to theEmperor4th, please elaborate.

As it stands, based on the description in the OP, the people used abilities to affect the entire structure not raw attack power.

Be advised of the following:

- if the people are using time manipulation (I.e., changing history through an alteration of time) this is by no means an AP feat and is not indexed as such. To give you an example of an unrelated instance, on our time manipulation page it states:

By default, the range of time manipulation is considered universal unless explicitly demonstrated or specified otherwise

By virtue of the fact that “affecting the entire structure” would refer to extending the scope of the ability’s effect and NOT increasing the potency of the ability itself.

- Also, the standards around EE and AP are constantly changing. Idk if it fits here (so again please elaborate) but if EE is why you are arguing for the scaling, then I will look into the current standards further and express my opinion.

 

[Arianninc]

cosmology is fine, long as the translation checks out.

I am very confused as to what you are trying to say with the yoshiro thing in your response’s to theEmperor4th, please elaborate.

As it stands, based on the description in the OP, the people used abilities to affect the entire structure not raw attack power.

By virtue of the fact that “affecting the entire structure” would refer to extending the scope of the ability’s effect and NOT increasing the potency of the ability itself.

- Also, the standards around EE and AP are constantly changing. Idk if it fits here (so again please elaborate) but if EE is why you are arguing for the scaling, then I will look into the current standards further and express my opinion.

Yorishiro? I think you've seen enough of what Sakura said, or maybe you didn't understand what I said if so I apologize because my English is still learning.

Yorishiro is simply a natural power possessed by supernatural beings they use this power to maintain a balance between supernatural beings and humans, according to Sakura if all Yorishiro are destroyed it will make all living and non-living things disappear, and there is also an addition that it will also affect 2 places, the meaning of the 2 places is the human world and the supernatural world because the concept in this series has each place to live, namely humans world and supernatural world.

So yes, I think this is EE because there is the word "disappear" which can mean "erased".

Mostly yes, it's Range if it only affects, but here I bring not only that but affects to erase, again I ask if someone who affects the cosmological structure like this will only get Range? I think AP, for example like the person above who brought The Ultimate Nullifier from Marvel that erases Low 2-C Structure then he gets AP Low 2-C.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Cosmology I don't see problems.

The issue is those who scale it as it doesn't say the clockkeepers did it with their raw power and it effects every part. This scan even talks about the butterfly effect so it sounds more of a chain reaction if anything. So the AP may not be 2-A but its more to potentially just the abilities and all.

 

[Arianninc]

Cosmology I don't see problems.

The issue is those who scale it as it doesn't say the clockkeepers did it with their raw power and it effects every part. This scan even talks about the butterfly effect so it sounds more of a chain reaction if anything. So the AP may not be 2-A but its more to potentially just the abilities and all.

Yorishiro is the raw power possessed by the supernatural, destroying Yorishiro is akin to destroying everything.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

The scans didn't show anything like the universe falling apart because of their deaths and simply that they die. Again all it shows so far is that they affected a universe via time hax to change the present which was talked more as a butterfly effect. The Ultimate Nullifier from what I see implies it will plainly destroy the universe while this one doesn't really tell me that. Are there more examples besides the time reset? Cuz the abilities just show how each individual timekeeper is in relation to one another.

 

[Arianninc]

The scans didn't show anything like the universe falling apart because of their deaths and simply that they die. Again all it shows so far is that they affected a universe via time hax to change the present which was talked more as a butterfly effect. The Ultimate Nullifier from what I see implies it will plainly destroy the universe while this one doesn't really tell me that. Are there more examples besides the time reset? Cuz the abilities just show how each individual timekeeper is in relation to one another.

this anime never shows that it destroys him, but from Sakura's words, it will affect 2 places and Megumi Ogata who plays Hanako and Tsukasa in this anime also said that it really caused the whole place.

Japanese: ミステリーナンバー1が全世界に変化を引き起こしま した。

DeepL: Mystery number one has caused a change in the entire world.​

After the Clock Keeper destroys it, he changes history to resurrect all humans and turn the supernatural into normal humans.

Because the Past changed, we now inhabit a

Brand-New Present.​

See? The First Day of the School Festival is drawing to a close.

In this "Present", none of the students will turn into monsters, and time won't come to a standstill.

The Incident that shook the school..."Never Happened".​

That was the Clock Keeper's Goal.​

Why do they resurrect even though they have worked hard to kill him? Because their goal is only to eliminate the god commonly called "IT".

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Even with that, it doesn't imply the ENTIRE 2-A was reset like that. Just one universe at best. Not to mention the way its described is because of the past being changed thus it would imply due to the past changing, the future changed cuz of a causality effect instead. Kinda like if a time traveler moved a rock then the future could change kind of deal is what I'm seeing from the text.

this anime never shows that it destroys him, but from Sakura's words, it will affect 2 places and Megumi Ogata who plays Hanako and Tsukasa in this anime also said that it really caused the whole place.

Japanese: ミステリーナンバー1が全世界に変化を引き起こしま した。​

​

DeepL: Mystery number one has caused a change in the entire world.​

After the Clock Keeper destroys it, he changes history to resurrect all humans and turn the supernatural into normal humans.

I saw the near and far side but what is that suppose to be? And that translation doesn't imply much and could just be that one universe. Again even if we go for raw power, it doesn't imply they did more than just the one timeline.

 

[Arianninc]

Even with that, it doesn't imply the ENTIRE 2-A was reset like that. Just one universe at best. Not to mention the way its described is because of the past being changed thus it would imply due to the past changing, the future changed cuz of a causality effect instead. Kinda like if a time traveler moved a rock then the future could change kind of deal is what I'm seeing from the text.

He had destroyed it but afterwards he changed history to revive humans, as well as turning supernaturals back into humans.

I saw the near and far side but what is that suppose to be? And that translation doesn't imply much and could just be that one universe. Again even if we go for raw power, it doesn't imply they did more than just the one timeline.

I have already explained several times that this place has 2 world concepts: the human world and the supernatural world.

One of the supernatural worlds itself has a 2-A structure because it contains Infinite Worlds, each of which encompasses different timelines, including the past, future, and present.

Now, Sakura statement that it "affects 2 places" refers to the human and supernatural residences; it's already clear that it affects everything because it includes the supernatural world with a 2-A structure. How can something as clear as that need to be said multiple time.