JJK: Relativistic Speed CRT

[ElJoaki5]

The feats
Main

• Hakari was able to react to lightning.
• Sukuna was able to react to an Electromagnetic Wave and hit it with a dismantle. (Note that this is not the feat where weakened Sukuna dodges an EMW but one where TF Sukuna reacts to and hits one with a dismantle)
• MBA Kashimo dodged the dismantle mentioned above (Note that while this may be an aim dodge, the calc already accounts for this).

Supportive

• A very weakened Sukuna was able to transform before being killed by the lightning Kashimo fired at him.
• MBA Kashimo was able to blitz the Sukuna who reacted to lightning.
• Gojo states that he'd be able to land Black Flash (Which requires a 0.000001 s timing) at will if it wasn’t luck based. While this may be a timing thing, in order to hit it consistently one shouldn’t be too far off from that perception speed.

The scaling
High Tiers scaling

• Jackpot Hakari and relative should scale to MHS+ (Mach 1304.85) in reaction speed due to him dodging lightning.
• Since this is only reaction speed, the Mach 3 statement isn’t an inconsistency. While they may be slower than Curse Naoya in movement speed, Toji was stated to be able to deal with everything at Naoya's speed and Maki avoided all of Naoya's attacks.

High High Tiers scaling

• 15 f Sukuna, Teen Awakened Gojo and relative scale to MHS+ in combat speed due to blitzing Ryu and Toji respectively. Which are high tiers.

God Tiers scaling

• 20 f Sukuna and relative should have MHS+ combat speeds and also have Relativistic (0.13 c) reaction speeds due to Sukuna reacting to an Electromagnetic Wave.
• 20f Sukuna should also have FTL (1.23 c) attack speed with WCS.
• MBA Kashimo should have Relativistic (0.11 c) reaction speed due to dodging Sukuna's dismantle and MHS+ combat speed due to blitzing weakened Sukuna, who was comparable to Kashimo's base form speed wise (Base Kashimo is a high tier).

The god tier relativistic scale and the high tier mhs+ scale can also be separated if one isnt agreeable.

 

[Mommyleona]

disagree.

 

[Arkenis]

disagree.

 

[Machmatej]

 

[ElJoaki5]

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

didn't gojo and sukuna's fight happen in like a 41 seconds timeframe (where they didn't move any ammount of distance that would entail anything higher than subsonic except for the last part with explicitly "condensed time"), with a lot of explicit timeframes in the fight being in the seconds, idk how anyone reads the fight and sees relativistic ngl, attack speed being different from traveling speed is just an excuse being used here atp.

Since this is only reaction speed, the Mach 3 statement isn’t an inconsistency. While they may be slower than Curse Naoya in movement speed, Toji was stated to be able to deal with everything at Naoya's speed and Maki avoided all of Naoya's attacks.

and this is just cause the distance is high and aim dodge.


not gonna argue in depht cause very busy irl, but relativistic spits at everything the series gave us, so put me in disagree.

edit: also is the "lightning" here considered/accepted as fast as real lightning?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

didn't gojo and sukuna's fight happen in like a 41 seconds timeframe (where they didn't move any ammount of distance that would entail anything higher than subsonic except for the last part with explicitly "condensed time")

I swear, you got so many better shit. Naobito, Naoya, Piercing blood, Piercing water (Sukuna), Mach 3, Kashimo's lightning being so fast that is seen as a sure-hit. But the "Sukuna and Gojo fought in 41 seconds" ain't it man

 

[Arkenis]

The fight didn't happen in 41 seconds either, that was the end of the fight and we know timeframes are whatever in most cases like Goku vs Sukuna, plus 41 seconds to Sukuna and Gojo is prob hours anyway.

 

[Mommyleona]

I swear, you got so many better shit. Naobito, Naoya, Piercing blood, Piercing water (Sukuna), Kashimo's lightning being so fast that is seen as a sure-hit. But the "Sukuna and Gojo fought in 41 seconds" ain't it man

agreed. using "they didnt move around as much" as an argument is just.. wrong
you could downgrade so many verses with roughly the same line of reasoning

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

But the "Sukuna and Gojo fought in 41 seconds" ain't it man

it works where i'm from .

it is very valid as far as i can tell but eh, lol.

 

[Arkenis]

As a serious answer, I think the calcs are useless, rel should be dropped, and Gojo and Sukuna should just be likely mhs+ in perception off Bf statement since its the one thing we actually have stated.

 

[Mommyleona]

Goku vs Sukuna

when

 

[Machmatej]

I swear, you got so many better shit. Naobito, Naoya, Piercing blood, Piercing water (Sukuna), Kashimo's lightning being so fast that is seen as a sure-hit. But the "Sukuna and Gojo fought in 41 seconds" ain't it man

same guy once told me subsonic naruto because of pain's 5 second timer

 

[Arkenis]

when

Goku vs Freiza. mistook trash for a goat mb

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

The fight didn't happen in 41 seconds either, that was the end of the fight and we know timeframes are whatever in most cases like Goku vs Sukuna, plus 41 seconds to Sukuna and Gojo is prob hours anyway.

bro the narrator said a hollow purple would detonate in 41 seconds, and it did, that's like the holy grail of time frames, the distance they covered in that 41 seconds, be it by punching, moving or attacking, can't put them anywhere near relativistic...

"they didnt move around as much" as an argument is just.. wrong

speed is distance over time bro, in 41 seconds, they didn't cover much distance, be it by attacking or moving around


very easy and valid anti feat (since we know the timeframe and distance), but i mean, if you all disagree, sure ig...i don't really wanna argue over this lol

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

it works where i'm from .

I wonder where you got it

 

[Arkenis]

bro the narrator said a hollow purple would detonate in 41 seconds, and it did, that's like the holy grail of time frames, the distance they covered in that 41 seconds, be it by punching, moving or attacking, can't put them anywhere near relativistic...

Why would it need, characters don't have to cover comparable distances to scale to some speed.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Kashimo's lightning being so fast that is seen as a sure-hit.

Kashimo's lightning sure-hit has nothing to do with its speed, the way it works is the lightning always goes towards the opponent because of charges.

 

[Mommyleona]

speed is distance over time bro, in 41 seconds, they didn't cover much distance, be it by attacking or moving around

but we treat combat and travel speed differently, otherwise any character approaching even remotely close to SoL should be zooming around the earth any second they're fighting

 

[Mommyleona]

I wonder where you got it

did you specifically held it in your pocket just in case all this time

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

I wonder where you got it

what do i even say to this bruh.

I didn't go back all at and steal arguments from bro to use them here.

but i am dropping this, like i said, too busy to argue in depht, and we all disagree anyways.

 

[Damage3245]

 

[Arkenis]

Down to earth, call me Hanami, cuz my scales is rooted in reality. See what I did there?

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

following cause this was a surprise to see

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Alright so Im gonna try to figure out what to say and processing this but while thats happening I do want to say that IMO, we should deal with Speed later on as Speed is a controversial topic for JJK (Even more than any other stat by a mile)

I also would like to say

Down to earth, call me Hanami, cuz my scales is rooted in reality. See what I did there?

Nice formatting for the speed sections of the characters

 

[MusicRelaxing]

The omiously shaped Naoya:

 

[ElJoaki5]

Can yall take my thread seriously fr now?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sun is online so I'm 89% sure that he is writting some bullshit in a discord server but

Jackpot Hakari and relative should scale to MHS+ (Mach 1304.85) in reaction speed due to him dodging lightning.

At this point we need some discussion rule about this feat. This feat was argued countless times and it's always the same cycle of arguments. The main thing is, do you plan to scale it to Uraume? Since you know, Uraume could barely react to Piercing Blood, calling it FAST, but could also fight Hakari and counter attack him for almost 50 chapters, with no proof of speedblitz. Their difference would be over 200 times, 200 TIMES. That's more than the difference between a car and a turtle.
You cannot just put the value and not explain the scaling in-deep

Also:

Mach 1304.85

This is another problem. Mach 1304, despiste the lightning being Mach 1282. Why are we scaling Hakari BARELY dodging the lightning, above the lightning? In fact, we have a funny calc rule for these kind of stuff, and it was the reason of why this calc was rejected years ago

From our calc page:

Refrain from calculating feats based on dodging attacks from other characters at extreme proximity, as this is primarily a trope used to exaggerate a narrow miss rather than a literal representation of overwhelming speed. Taking it at face value is often inconsistent with the battle in which the feat occurs, where the opponents are presented as equals, but the calculation results in them being considered several times faster. This should only be used when the character in question is greatly superior to the one who's attack he is evading and the speed of the attack is concretely stated, such as being able to surpass the speed of sound, or light, or uses a basis in the Real World such as the speed of an athlete's punch. If the two fighters are equal, you should simply scale them to the stated speed of the attack, or off of other feats they perform.

Sukuna was able to react to an Electromagnetic Wave and hit it with a dismantle.

I don't understand why are we assuming that Dismantle had to move that fast? Why the EMWS couldn't have moved further? The world split dismantle would have nulled it anyway and blocked it's path, even if it was moving at transonic speed it would still stop it due to how much thicker is in comparasion to the EMWS. This is just a reaction speed for SUKUNA

MBA Kashimo should have Relativistic (0.11 c) reaction speed due to dodging Sukuna's dismantl

The same Dismantle that Sukuna warned Kashimo before he fired it, aka aim dodge?

who was comparable to Kashimo's base form speed wise

Sukuna does hold back a lot, you know that. His cursed energy does have it's own mechanic where it will weave depending on his motivation and interest, with Uraume saying that he didn't took any battle until Maki seriously, and only went full berserk after his philosophy was in challenge with Maki's existance as a full heavenly restricted, with Sukuna blitzing her completly.

There's no proof of Sukuna using his full power against Kashimo

 

[LIGHTYW]

AGREEE COMPLETELY, ESPECIALLY WITH KASHIMO'S PART.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Agree

 

[Lilybitdun]

The hakari feat has been disproved multiple times

But the supportive scans still can lead to MHS+ perception speed (I believe transforming before lightning hits is a perception speed feat due to reincarnation not taking any physical movement). We know MHS+ reactions/perception alone aren't enough to hit Black Flash due to Gojo's statement so it wouldn't be a cap for the verse

I'll share more of my opinion soon but I'm tired so not voting for anything yet

 

[Arkenis]

We are just in a joking way at least.

Naoya stands as a funny anti-feat, cuz Maki was sub mach3 but did training and now scales hundreds of times (435x) but still needed molecular sensory across hundreds of square meters to predict Naoya? If we are going by feats, Naoya shouldn't even understand or seen Maki's general direction. Instead, Naoya is always short of hitting her but still several to tens of meters away just freaking out he can't hit her, not that he can't perceive her.

Yuta and Higuruma are the only ones who think they might have seen Gojo's domain be activated within a 0.01s faster timeframe than Sukuna.

• Jackpot Hakari and relative should scale to MHS+ (Mach 1304.85) in reaction speed due to him dodging lightning.
• Since this is only reaction speed, the Mach 3 statement isn’t an inconsistency. While they may be slower than Curse Naoya in movement speed, Toji was stated to be able to deal with everything at Naoya's speed and Maki avoided all of Naoya's attacks.

Your attempt to mischaracterize it as only reaction speed gets put in the garbage when we pull up several instances of people getting blitzed by Uraume's ct yet also can fight her in combat. Or Yuki blocking a point blank uzumaki or Yuta or Rika blocking Granite Blast or Uro. This is NOT reaction speed. So this scaling would need to be also applied to combat speed since you know they move their arms and body in several of these examples.

High High Tiers scaling

• 15 f Sukuna, Teen Awakened Gojo and relative scale to MHS+ in combat speed due to blitzing Ryu and Toji respectively. Which are high tiers.

No problem with scaling Teen Gojo that high but arguing it through Toji who we know is rusty, isn't concrete.

God Tiers scaling

• 20 f Sukuna and relative should have MHS+ combat speeds and also have Relativistic (0.13 c) reaction speeds due to Sukuna reacting to an Electromagnetic Wave.
• 20f Sukuna should also have FTL (1.23 c) attack speed with dismantle.
• MBA Kashimo should have Relativistic (0.11 c) reaction speed due to dodging Sukuna's dismantle and MHS+ combat speed due to blitzing weakened Sukuna, who was comparable to Kashimo's base form speed wise (Base Kashimo is a high tier).

Idk if I'm losing my marbles but how do people think that's a regular dismantle? Kashimo points out its the world slasher. Maybe you didn't think it should be named appropriately here but if not, there's no reason regular dismantles should be FTL. The rest is really just whether we think it's narratively consistent for Sukuna, the fight for the most part demonstrates superiority, just don't think mhs+ superior.

This the same "he held back thousands of times to have a good time" argument and given we know it's a weakened Sukuna and we know he's about or just above Yuta in terms of overall ce doesn't help at all.

 

[Lilybitdun]

this probably should've been split into two threads instead of one big controversial one tbh

 

[Sammy818]

El why the **** did you package these 2 together

 

[Sammy818]

You might, MIGHT have had a chance if it was just gojokuna glaze since their existence is almost to a point of being a different verse

 

[Sammy818]

Anyway let’s wait till the anime releases, if Naoya is retconned we will have a decent arg

 

[PowerToScale]

At this point we need some discussion rule about this feat. This feat was argued countless times and it's always the same cycle of arguments. The main thing is, do you plan to scale it to Uraume? Since you know, Uraume could barely react to Piercing Blood, calling it FAST, but could also fight Hakari and counter attack him for almost 50 chapters, with no proof of speedblitz. Their difference would be over 200 times, 200 TIMES. That's more than the difference between a car and a turtle.
You cannot just put the value and not explain the scaling in-deep

With the whole Uruame thing she didn't go all out in Shibuya in that scene, so I thinking something is fast while not at your fastest is still valid. Even if we got by the assumption that Uruame full strength in Shibuya isn't that much better than the casual. She would have simply gotten faster than stronger post Shibuya as evidenced by Keeping up with Hakari, and it makes sense as she was embarrassed by Gojo to the point she doesn't want that to happen in front of Sukuna again.

Plus it wouldn't be inconsistent as the good guys quite literally just surpass all speed and strength barriers from before anyways

I hate this idea that a past feat, which wasn't even their full capabilities limits the characters later.

 

[Sammy818]

We are just in a joking way at least.

Naoya stands as a funny anti-feat, cuz Maki was sub mach3 but did training and now scales hundreds of times (435x) but still needed molecular sensory across hundreds of square meters to predict Naoya? If we are going by feats, Naoya shouldn't even understand or seen Maki's general direction. Instead, Naoya is always short of hitting her but still several to tens of meters away just freaking out he can't hit her, not that he can't perceive her.

Yuta and Higuruma are the only ones who think they might have seen Gojo's domain be activated within a 0.01s faster timeframe than Sukuna.



Your attempt to mischaracterize it as only reaction speed gets put in the garbage when we pull up several instances of people getting blitzed by Uraume's ct yet also can fight her in combat. Or Yuki blocking a point blank uzumaki or Yuta or Rika blocking Granite Blast or Uro. This is NOT reaction speed. So this scaling would need to be also applied to combat speed since you know they move their arms and body in several of these examples.


No problem with scaling Teen Gojo that high but arguing it through Toji who we know is rusty, isn't concrete.


Idk if I'm losing my marbles but how do people think that's a regular dismantle? Kashimo points out its the world slasher. Maybe you didn't think it should be named appropriately here but if not, there's no reason regular dismantles should be FTL. The rest is really just whether we think it's narratively consistent for Sukuna, the fight for the most part demonstrates superiority, just don't think mhs+ superior.

This the same "he held back thousands of times to have a good time" argument and given we know it's a weakened Sukuna and we know he's about or just above Yuta in terms of overall ce doesn't help at all.

Ce amount doesn’t affect his output, also refer to image. But you are right, I think we gotta slowly level up the high tiers to High hypersonic ish first before making this push, as I don’t think it’s crazy to say that maki after her second awakening is almost 10-20 times faster than Naoya at her peak(in short distances of course)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

With the whole Uruame thing she didn't go all out in Shibuya in that scene, so I thinking something is fast while not at your fastest is still valid. Even if we got by the assumption that Uruame full strength in Shibuya isn't that much better than the casual.

You would need MASSIVE proof for Uraume holding back to the point of thinking that a mach 2-3 piercing blood is fast while also moving at mach 1300. Uraume is no Saitama or wathever

She would have simply gotten faster than stronger post Shibuya as evidenced by Keeping up with Hakari, and it makes sense as she was embarrassed by Gojo to the point she doesn't want that to happen in front of Sukuna again.

Being embarrassed doesn't mean anything. In that time they were mainly trying to find Sukuna's fingers, not training. NOTHING imples that

Plus it wouldn't be inconsistent as the good guys quite literally just surpass all speed and strength barriers from before anyways

Eeeeh, not so sure about that

 

[Sammy818]

You would need MASSIVE proof for Uraume holding back to the point of thinking that a mach 2-3 piercing blood is fast while also moving at mach 1300. Uraume is no Saitama or wathever

The simple explanation imo is she was off guarded, also she didn’t know about the poison and just thought she’d instantly regenerate and she did have to constantly regulate her output in all CE regards to keep Wuji Himtadori safe