JJK: Uraume's Ice Block Calc Problem Pt3

[ElJoaki5]

In this thread an update for Uraume's ice block calc was accepted. But there was a modification made to the calc, that was overlooked and is actually an error, but noone noticed.

If we look at KingTempest's calculation, in the ice generation part, you will see that what is calculated is freezing air instead of freezing water. This is obviously incorrect as the ice block was made of ice and melted into water. It should be calculated as freezing water.

In light of that, the calculation should be changed to use latent heat (fusion) of water together with E=m*c*ΔT.

Note: This thread aims only to tackle this specific issue and shouldn’t be used to discuss the size of the block again.

 

[ElJoaki5]

@Damage3245 @Dalesean027 @SunDaGamer

 

[Damage3245]

Does this warrant a thread? Why not just a message to KT's wall asking him to update the calc? Then once the new version is made & evaluated, a thread can be made.

 

[KingTempest]

You do realize that people in fiction can generate ice through freezing absolutely no water right?
Especially Uraume, who consistently generates ice through mist and no water involved.
We calc what happened, not what's a "substitute". If Uraume didn't freeze water, don't calc em freezing water. It was never frozen water that was being calculated, it was generating ice without the presence of it.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

You do realize that people in fiction can generate ice through freezing absolutely no water right?
Especially Uraume, who consistently generates ice through mist and no water involved.
We calc what happened, not what's a "substitute". If Uraume didn't freeze water, don't calc em freezing water. It was never frozen water that was being calculated, it was generating ice without the presence of it.

Isn't mist just water tho
Water droplets if we're being specific

 

[KingTempest]

Isn't mist just water tho
Water droplets if we're being specific

Utilizing small mist to generate big blocks of ice ≠ freezing large quantities of water

 

[Dalesean027]

Mist total volume is made up of less than 1% water vs the rest being air and shit even if it was somewhere super humid that water vapor would only make up 1~4% of the volune

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Utilizing small mist to generate big blocks of ice ≠ freezing large quantities of water

That would still mean what you said was wrong;

Especially Uraume, who consistently generates ice through mist and no water involved

 

[KingTempest]

That would still mean what you said was wrong;

Water as in the form of water as a liquid not water as in H20.
Uraume CAN freeze water, there are feats of them doing so
But this is not one of them. This is just rapid creation of ice.

If Uraume was to freeze the water vapor in the air it'd look like ice rain, not frozen blocks

 

[KingTempest]

Like an example in another verse is this
Kuzan can generate ice through "Freezing mist" but he's not really freezing water in the atmosphere, it's just a fancy way of him spawning ice.
He is also capable of freezing water.
So the feats of him freezing water are valid although the showings of the ice generation are not.

This isn't an isolated incident. Other verses have situations of that caliber, like Avatar when firebenders "generate fire" but through actually spawning flames and not "heating the air till it combusts" and such. Fiction doesn't understand the repercussions of "generating" through realistic methods and generating through spawning.

For example, we don't calculate heating the air up at 50,000 degrees for every lightning calc cause that isn't what most characters are doing.

It's dumb and personally I'd like if it could be accounted for regularly but it is what it is.

 

[KingTempest]

(Sorry for the triple message) To be honest, is there a way to quantify it @Dalesean027?

I feel like there's ice from nothing calcs that have been done

 

[Dalesean027]

(Sorry for the triple message) To be honest, is there a way to quantify it @Dalesean027?

I feel like there's ice from nothing calcs that have been done

Yeah gimme a minute in a call at work

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah gimme a minute in a call at work

No rush brudda

 

[Floxy178]

I haven't gone through calc in depth so I might be wrong, but shouldn't calc use mass values instead of volume values in "ice generation" part?

 

[Dalesean027]

I haven't gone through calc in depth so I might be wrong, but shouldn't calc use mass values instead of volume values in "ice generation" part?

It converts them to kg

 

[Floxy178]

It converts them to kg

Yeah but volume is still what's being used

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah but volume is still what's being used

Weird yeah that will need to be fixed

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah but volume is still what's being used

Weird yeah that will need to be fixed

Huh, I could've sworn I did account for that, my bad, thought I added it

Adding mass

Nitrogen

E = [1785674.1 * 0.7809 * 1040 * (295.3 - 63.15)] + (1785674.1 * 0.7809 * 25702) + (1785674.1 * 0.7809 * 199190)

E = 650263107578 Joules

Now Oxygen.

E = [1785674.1 * 0.2095 * 919 * (295.3 - 54.35)] + (1785674.1 * 0.2095 * 13875) + (1785674.1 * 0.2095 * 213125)

E = 167758231782 Joules

Added together

650263107578 + 167758231782 = 818021339360 joules = 195.51179239 Tons

Thanks, idk how I missed that,

 

[KingTempest]

I can make a whole new blog removing all of the other stuff since the only things agreed on was the generation and gpe

 

[ElJoaki5]

Actually, I've had a change of heart. I think these freezing feats might be completely unusable.

Uraume freezes stuff by using her cursed energy and her Cursed Energy is stated to be supercooled.

This means that it's already below the freezing point and will freeze on it's own. So she doesn’t need to put energy into it to make it freeze. Does that make sense?

 

[KingTempest]

Actually, I've had a change of heart. I think these freezing feats might be completely unusable.

Uraume freezes stuff by using her cursed energy and her Cursed Energy is stated to be supercooled.

This means that it's already below the freezing point and will freeze on it's own. So she doesn’t need to put energy into it to make it freeze. Does that make sense?

nah if it's supercooled it just means that the method of transfer of cold is already super cold ass mist, so it just means the mist is cold

i'm against tossing it, it's a good feat, just can't be calced with water. but the stuff like the common ref for atmosphere freezing is fine since it technically is "freezing a portion of the atmosphere"

 

[Saqphire]

I wonder what would happen if E = MC^2 was applied here hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[KingTempest]

I wonder what would happen if E = MC^2 was applied here hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

wankity wank wank, wank wank

 

[Da3ggman]

I wonder what would happen if E = MC^2 was applied here hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You'd be better off arguing universal Gojo

 

[Floxy178]

I wonder what would happen if E = MC^2 was applied here hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Don't give them any ideas...

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah gimme a minute in a call at work

Yeah I checked the wiki (sorry i just came across it) and the usual accepted method for freezing air is what my method does

 

[Qurbonboev]

Yeah I checked the wiki (sorry i just came across it) and the usual accepted method for freezing air is what my method does

Why are you using ice(aka frozen water) to calculate mass of frozen air?

 

[KingTempest]

Why are you using ice(aka frozen water) to calculate mass of frozen air?

Frozen air is air. It has different masses but same volume. So we can use the differing volume to find the mass with their respective densities

 

[Dalesean027]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/Kagurabachi_feat_compilation_5.

Alternatively he could use frozen nitrogen and oxygen too but ice works

 

[Qurbonboev]

Frozen air is air. It has different masses but same volume. So we can use the differing volume to find the mass with their respective densities

You are using density of one material(frozen water) to calculate mass of totally different material(composition of frozen nitrogen and oxygen).

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/Kagurabachi_feat_compilation_5.

Alternatively he could use frozen nitrogen and oxygen too but ice works

This works, but it assumes that oxygen takes 21% of volume since it's 21% of mass(which is wrong, oxygen density is higher than air, so it would take less volume fraction compared to it's weight fraction). But since it doesn't change calculation by any noticeable amount, It can totally work

 

[Dalesean027]

This works, but it assumes that oxygen takes 21% of volume since it's 21% of mass(which is wrong, oxygen density is higher than air, so it would take less volume fraction compared to it's weight fraction). But since it doesn't change calculation by any noticeable amount, It can totally work

"air" as we know it is literally just 21% oxygen of 78% Nitrogen and that's by volume so you're just wrong here. No one assuming anything or working from mass back.

Atmosphere of Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Composition of our Atmosphere | METEO 3: Weather Revealed: Introductory Meteorology

All About Air | Cook Museum of Natural Science

Take a deep breath and let it out. Did you see anything go in and out of your nose and mouth? No? But you definitely felt it! So, what is in the air we breathe, and why can’t we see it? Our planet consists of almost 100 different elements. Everything that makes up our planet …

www.cookmuseum.org

 

[Qurbonboev]

"air" as we know it is literally just 21% oxygen of 78% Nitrogen and that's by volume so you're just wrong here. No one assuming anything or working from mass back.

Atmosphere of Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Composition of our Atmosphere | METEO 3: Weather Revealed: Introductory Meteorology

All About Air | Cook Museum of Natural Science

Take a deep breath and let it out. Did you see anything go in and out of your nose and mouth? No? But you definitely felt it! So, what is in the air we breathe, and why can’t we see it? Our planet consists of almost 100 different elements. Everything that makes up our planet …

www.cookmuseum.org

Wikipedia links literally says that nitrogen is 78.05 of atmosphere by quantity of molecules(aka by weight).
But I don't think it matters at all, it doesn't change result by any noticeable amount
So I won't continue this dialogue

 

[Dalesean027]

this is by volume brodie you're again just simply wrong here but regardless as ya said it doesn't matter since its negligible

https://www.noaa.gov/jetstream/atmosphere#:~:text=Table_content:%20header:%20%7C%20Gas%20%7C%20Symbol%20%7C,%7C%20Symbol:%20CO2%20%7C%20Content:%200.042%25%20%7C

 

[Floxy178]

Dale is correct here, it's by mole fraction. Reference for common feats page uses mass for some reason though, difference is few % anyway.

 

[KingTempest]

Bump

So what's the consensus.

I also collapsed the OG calc in the blog and put only the accepted one

 

[Arkenis]

Should still be used for scaling since its a really good feat is something the high tiers can scale off.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

It seems clear as day to me that they are a decent distance away from the domain, and using Uraume as reference when they're literally the furthest away? it WOULD be best to use Higuruma who seems to be the closest but there isn't a canon height for him

But still, even Yuji's closer than Uraume, why use the farthest person?

Domains don't disappear instantly, they for sure could have gotten several meters away before it broke especially with their Shinjuku speed

 

[Arkenis]

He's not much taller that it'd create a massive difference but I guess it could be changed? I got 1.85m for a diff panel. He probably makes it a couple dozen cms bigger. "Their shinjuku speed", they're just falling so ig 9.8m/s shinjuku gods. Also does it make sense Uraume and Hakari jump towards them then end up beneath them if they're originally in the domain? It's certainly several meters away but nothing enough to account for I'd say. Also this lines up with what KT got, as in this panel it's also in the 9m range. Alternatively someone could angsize the panel of Sukuna looking up to find size.