JOJO Scaling Revision

[LoudCloud]

I made a similar thread talking about the same things a while back but my lack of knowledge on Part 3 made it difficult to keep the conversation going. Anyway, now that I've seen it I might as well bring this up again since it's still bothering me. JustSomeWeirdo also brought up some similar points that I thought I should mention.

It boils down to two questions I have about scaling the characters:

1. We're basically told that Vampires and Pillar men are weak to Hamon so can we really scale Hamon users in terms of AP to them? For example, how would Jonathan scale to Dio Brando if he needed Hamon to harm him? That's basically a hax that wouldn't work with most other fictional characters (Jonathan would have lower AP if he tried using Hamon to harm a non-vampiric fictional character).

2. JustSomeWeirdo's main point was that DIO needs to regenerate every time Star Platinum hits him. Whenever he gets hit his body is visibly mangled or heavily maimed and he regens to put himself back to normal again. Shouldn't this also get in the way of scaling actual AP/Durabilty between them?

 

[LoudCloud]

el bumpo

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

1. While this is true, Jonathan had also landed a punch to Dio's face and had actually damamged him without Hamon, Hamon is just used to put down the undead much faster and without trouble

2. After a while, I have changed my mind about this point as DIO shouldn't be significantly weaker than Dio and he had also taken hits from City Block level characters such as Kakyoin right before finishing him off

 

[LoudCloud]

1. Really? I don't remember this. What fight was this?

2. Even if DIO was more powerful than Dio, there's still no concrete evidence that he could take on SP's attacks. And I'm not too sure about Kakyoin being city block level since characters with a C or B rank in strength being city block level seem like outliers to me, but I understnad the reasoning.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

1. I will pull up a scan as soon as I find it

2. Stand ranks are basically meaningless when it comes to scaling

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

The hamon in this punch was then stopped by Vaporizing Freeze

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Stand rankings are used for scaling, but if they have damaged stands with higher rankings than their own or have higher destructive feats, then "possibly 8-B" or whatever is added on top of their current ranking.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

^Which they almost always have, and I'll correct myself

They're meaningless in most cases as they usually have battled either a JoJo's Stand or a Stand that had already fought a JoJo's Stand

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best to inform Arigarmy about this thread.

 

[LoudCloud]

The problem with that scan, and keep in mind most of my info is from the anime adaptation, is that in that instance the hamon from the punch does damage Dio but he uses vaporizing freeze to stop it from spreading and damaging the rest of his body. So effectively, Jonathan still uses hamon to damage Dio. Him stopping the hamon is only done afterwards to stop it from effecting him further.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

There was absolutely no hamon damage done, Hamon cannot be stopped once it's in the body of a vampire, as Dio had to resort to cutting off his head once Hamon actually went into his body, and I believe it was even stated that the Hamon never went into Dio with that punch

 

[LoudCloud]

I looked at the volume where that scan comes from and the blood coming from Dio probably has more to do with the fact his body has been cut in half and less to do with actually being punched (considering we never seem him bleed like then when being attacked by a non-hamon attack anywhere else).

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

You can see that there is impact from the punch tho

 

[LoudCloud]

Once again, probably has something to do with the fact Dio has been cut in half. I imagine he's barely at his best.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

He's even knocked off of the balcony from the punch that actually did have Hamon flow through to Dio, Hamon doesn't send people flying

 

[LoudCloud]

On closer inspection, Jonathan does manage to cut one of Dio's arm off with a non-hamon sword swing. That could count.

I guess piercing attacks like swords can bypass conventional durability to a small extent though so I'm not fully sure.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Yea, a non hamon sword swing is also what cut Dio in half

 

[LoudCloud]

Yeah, I'll give it a pass, but that still doesn't explain Joseph and Ceaser in part 2 having the same ranking. They rely more on hamon and non-confrontational strategies to win than Jonathan so it's doubtful they'd have the same natural AP/Durabilty.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

But with the Pillar Men, you actually have to break through their skin, like how just hitting Santana with a hamon charged attack wouldn't work

 

[LoudCloud]

You can use Hamon to break through skin just fine. It practically melts their body.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

It has to actually pass through though, Joseph hit Santana with Hamon and thought it didn't even do anything

 

[LoudCloud]

I don't remember this. When did it happen?