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Jotaro Downgrade

Eficiente

He/Him
VS Battles
Retired
Messages
15,747
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5,347
1. "Durability: Building level+ (Survived multiple barrages of attacks from The World)"

  • Lesser things could harm him before at least twice before this.
  • Context wise he got a lot of broken bones from this, which was even ignored.
  • Other chracters do have a more consistent durability on this level...Jotaro isn't one of them.
2. Jotaro needs a key for his Part 6 self, where he was weak and we don't know what his stats would really look like.

3. In his AP: "Upon gaining Time Stop, Star Platinum easily snapped both of DIO's legs with a single kick and ultimately obliterated him with a punch."

  • This is misleading and ignores context, way before this Jotaro was more or less amping himself via anger (he says as much) and right before DIO used his steamroller it was stated that Jotaro was going to concentrate all his strength in one punch. Both things need to be clarified, we could even add DIO being weaker in his left side.
 
It would probably be good if you mention the specific instances where Jotaro was harmed by lesser things. Overall I'm agreeing with you.
 
He got the crap kicked out of him by three guys in a jewelry store during the episode with steely dan
 
Seems like a good example. Is there more?
 
>Lesser things could harm him before at least twice before this.

Yes welcome to JoJo where the human characters' durability fluctuate at a drop of a hat. You can think of two times, I can think of several where he tanked blows above what you're thinking. The existence of low-end feats doesnt invaliate the higher end feats, consistency isnt an argument here given there's more high ends than low-ends.

>Context wise he got a lot of broken bones from this, which was even ignored.

He only got 3 broken bones, saying a lot is exagerating, and other than the rib, the collar bone fracture actually doesnt look that bad, arm fracture is somewhere in the middle. He actually walked out of the second kick pummel that knocked him through a building and like half a km without broken bones (probably longer given the Qasr El Nil Bridge is nearly 2km long), make of that what you will. Also getting broken bones doesnt change the fact he tanked em even if he took damage, the punches broke some bones but that was about it, he wasnt one shot, killed, crippled, etc by those blows. I mean just look at poor old Kak, one punch and he was dead. You could make mention that the first pummel broke some bones but that doesnt effect the other pummels he took nor the fact he survived said pummel even if he did take damage and honestly kinda just dealth with it.

>Other chracters do have a more consistent durability on this level...Jotaro isn't one of them.

I don't know about that, Jotaro is treated as one of the more durable Crusaders in almost every situation where they're all in danger.

>.Jotaro needs a key for his Part 6 self, where he was weak and we don't know what his stats would really look like.

True, but as you said yourself, we don't know what said stats really look like. All we know is he's stronger than Stone Free and can kill Pucci if given a chance. Seems kinda counterintuitive to give him a key where we don't know how strong he is.

> In his AP: "Upon gaining Time Stop, Star Platinum easily snapped both of DIO's legs with a single kick and ultimately obliterated him with a punch."

I mean, he did easily snap both his legs, you can't deny that, Jotaro didn't even seem to be going all out in that specific instance, yes he was mad and yes he was using more power than usual because of it but, he still easily snapped his legs like nothing. Hell earlier in the fight he smashed The World's hand too, prior to getting peak mad he also punched a hole clean through The World. And he did destroy him with one punch, also no, there was no concentrate all of his power into one punch thing. I just checked, all that was said and I quote.

All I have to do is blast Star Platinum's fist into him in those two seconds!

Nothing about concentrating power or anything, just that in order to kill DIO, he has to have Star Platinum ohko him in his time stop window. I mean obviously it was a full power punch but... What's your point? Star Platinum still obliterated him with one punch, even if hypothetically he poured all his Stand power into that one single punch, that would still be his AP.

>Both things need to be clarified, we could even add DIO being weaker in his left side.

You could make a mention of SP being pissed off when he did those feats but i dont think that'd change much given he's explicitly said to be the strongest Stand ever, even more so than The World by wog, multiple times and the breaking Dio's legs was done, while pissed off, in a moment he was purposely ******* with Dio and it seemed somewhat casual at that, going by Star Platinum's expression. Plus the concentrate all his power into one punch was never actually said, at all, I checked multiple translations. And yeah Dio was weaker on his left side prior to all the things you just mentioned. HIGH DIO isn't weaker in his left side, that was fixed upon drinking Joestar Blood, he's actually significantly stronger than his former self and is properly fused with his body with all previous detriments gone.

As for the whole him getting beat up by dudes in a jewelry store, that's really not a good example given that's such a low-end feat that if you honestly wanna use that as evidence it'd mean that Jotaro unironically breaks his legs and arms everytime he himself throws a punch given his own physical feats, and the fact he'd of been splattered by The World, much like those fodder the Pillar Men killed or gored like Kakyoin was by a casual, weaker punch, from The World, him getting tossed through a building would have killed too given he had zero protection from Star Platinum in that instance (as well as the kick that sent him through that building), the several blows he's taken from Stands that he managed to tank. tbh that's Goku 40 ton anti-feat tier of evidence, ie it's a case of blatant downplay. Or Hulk getting beaten by a Gorilla, that's a good one too. Or Silver Surfer getting mugged, **** that's actually funny, that's some Thanoscoptor tier quality.

Anyway all I got from this was you think Jotaro's durability should be lower, but given that for every low end feat a feat drastically higher exists, the best I'm gonna agree with is this.

Likely Building Level (Survived several blows from The World albeit with some broken bones)

or whatever we treat the world as. That should be the optimal course of action as it dictates it isnt entirely concrete and there is room for variation but also isnt being completely ignorant of the multitude of drastically higher durability feats.

As for Star Platinum, him being pissed off or calm doesnt change his AP (Well it does, what I meant is it wouldnt change what we list him as). You could clarify that he was pissed off when he broke Dio's legs but the whole concentrated punch thing simply isnt even real. It was a punch, a strong one, and a pissed one, but he didnt concentrate all his Stand energy into said punch nor power, that was never said.
 
Oh also I guess the Part 6 key, what would you propose to do? All we know is that he's stronger than Stone Free and could kill Pucci if he got within cqc. That's all we know about it because he's only in two arcs and barely and cameos in another but only in a vegative state and star platinum as a disc (which is to much for Jolyne to handle), doesnt fight anything really.
 
Nehz XZX said:
Seems like a good example. Is there more?
He got briefly unconscious after all the Crusaders got hit by a truck in the second Hol Horse fight, iirc he also got damaged by slightly burning himself in the Yellow Temperance fight. Also, and while never explicitly doing it due to never reaching him, bullets are portrayed as being able to pierce him in the beginning and the DIO fight.

"Old man, you warned me to not get angry...and it looks like you're right... 'cause now I'm screwed. But... It's not because I'm too angry... It's because I'm not angry enough!"

This sh*t is not something Jotaro normally has when using his Stand.
 
He actually didnt lose unconscious when getting hit by the truck. It's explicitly said as much.

Literally just checked that scene, he takes zero visible damage from the lighter, like at all. Not even a burn mark. (Also proceeds to fall like 200ft within the same chapter and is completely fine).

Maybe, but on the wiki were we treat Resident Evil and Metal Gear among other things as High 8-C and 8-B even though bullets, very specific bullets at that that we know the exact yeilds given they actually exist, can harm said characters and even kill them but instead of using those as anti-feats we just treat the guns in question as scaling for some reason under the assumption that the authors overestimate guns despite said weaponary being for the most part, 100% accurate to their real world counterpart, idk dude you may have a point but as far as the wiki is concerened, not exactly enough. I dont exactly agree but no double standards (Plus the bullets never actually hit Jotaro).

Yes Jotaro was angry, what's your point? He was going all out because he was angry. It actually is something Jotaro has when normally using his Stand, the only difference is that normally he aint pissed off and casual and in that instance he's pissed off. Are you actually trying to suggest a character being mad invalidates their feats? Because that aint how it works. It's literally no different than if you threw a punch while normal and while pissed off, yeah the pissed off punch is gonna be a bit stronger but that's kinda common sense?

Anyway, as said above, he has much higher feats that contradict the above, case and point taking a pummel from The World that launches him through a hotel and like 2km. What you're proposing would make the above feat completely impossible, hell ignore getting kicked by The World, he'd have exploded upon hitting the building.
 
A character's durability being inconsistent is something that generally happens in fiction. I don't understand why Jotaro is being singled out here specifically when he has plenty of feats to justfiy his durability as Chariot has shown. Hell, even Part 4 Jotaro was still pretty tough as shown when he gets blown up by SHA and still beats down Kira.

I mean let's take Joseph for example. He fought and bested the Pillar Men in Part 2, right? On the other hand, he seemingly gets hurt when Erina hits him with her umbrella and the girl held captive by Straizo was able to harm him with a punch to the nose and even drew blood from him. Even in Part 3, an escalator threatened to crush him and Mariah's electrical wires posed a threat to him. So, are we going to ignore his Pillar Men feats and say Joseph is human level or something because of the other examples? Of course not. These examples are just cases of authors not acknowledging the power of their characters - PIS.
 
I am pretty neutral on this over all, but Jotaro should definitely have Statistics Amplification and Rage Power or something for amping himself with Rage
 
For every low end feat a stupidly higher feat exist for jojo human durabiity basically. JoJo human durability ranges from barely superhuman to ******* bullshitingly asinine, within the same character (although a handful are kinda surprising consistent with zero anti-feat in sight). Araki has the characters vary to suit the events of the plot, while the Stands tend to remain very consistent within their part and the AP of said humans tend to be the same, human durability specifically doesnt. But that doesnt invalidate the high ends, or even the low ends (Unless you're like a hamon warrior). What it means is that it's a bit inconsistent, but it's consistent within it's inconsistency, it varies, Jotaro being a ******* tank aint a one time or even two time thing, it's like a twenty time thing.

Which is why I'm willing to compromise a Likely Building Level, because he does indeed have anti-feats, but ignoring his very blatant and multiple high end feats like they dont exist is just being ignorant.

You know what it looks when someone gets punched by a Stand but they dont have the durable to tank it?

Tumblr pql7jaOKyA1vz5npso4 540


Something like that.

69a
Plus Jotaro has a handful of supplementary casual and blatant superhuman feats where he takes zero damage. Which kinda suggests he's a tad more than just a buff dude.
 
Chariot actually makes a really strong case. I think at the very least Likely/Possibly building level should remain in his durability, but I'm pretty neutral otherwise
 
I could go far more in detail and compile a comprehensive list of feats, not just for Jotaro but every example of someone getting casually hit by a Stand and losing that limb/getting gored. I can think of at least 10-15 more examples then the above.

But I wrote that while out, I can go into more details later but that hould suffice for now.
 
Possibly Building level is more reasonable.
 
WeeklyBattles, why would it be downgraded to 9-A?
 
That was fun but the derailment ends there, I want that Stone Ocean key for Jotaro.
 
What do we know about Jotaro in Stone Ocean that would be put into that key?
 
It did but we don't use stand stats for the most part since they're inconsistent and unreliable, it's a case by case basis. SP didnt have enough time in Part 6 to really gauge how strong it was, what we do know is that it's atleast as strong as stone free and can harm MiH
 
Maybe not, the stats are pretty much the same minus the durability. Stands stats are known to be unreliable though. I don't know much about Part 6 so i have little to no information on Jotaro's feats in Part 6.
 
The verse page lists three 8-C calculations.
 
Yeah, Tarkus' feat and Stone Free's feat were both recalced t 9-A and SP's inhaling feat was deemed unuseable as an AP feat
 
Wait Tarkus splitting hills is actually Small Building Level? Damn, I gotta check that.
 
What about Star Platinum inhaling a storm of fog?
 
I had the feeling I was forgetting stuff, SP overpowering Magician's Red and Silver Chariot should be removed as they are weaker than it, "Inhaled all of Enyaba's air" should be removed too, and also all the stuff said in SP's speed in the second key

  • "Blitzed Killer Queen even when Jotaro was on the brink of death" We also never saw him using time stop when Kira implied he was using that, making the feat doubtful. Also KQ is weaker than SP.
  • "Specifically stated by Stone Ocean infographics to surpass the speed of light" Has nothing to do with SP being MFTL.
  • "Stated to be able to keep up with Red Hot Chili Pepper traveling at the speed of light, although this could be due to his ability to stop time" As before and worst as Josuke, who is comparable but somewhat weaker could not keep up with that.
 
I think they're good supporting feats for over LS in general tho, or just putting in the feats section.
 
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