Jotaro Kujo Vs Mako Mankanshoku

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Self Explanatory.

- Speed Equalized

- Morals on, but willing to kill

They fight in the Honnouji Academy arena.

 

[Ryukama]

Jotaro has time-stop which could eventually cause him to chip along with selective intangibility. However with her AP being 5.6 times greater than durability one hit and the victory is hers.

I don't feel like Jotaro would immediately use timestop and spam it on someone he has absolutely no knowledge of whatsoever. Especially someone as seemingly non-threatening as Mako is. He's more likely to not take her seriously and fight h2h, in which he'd get oneshot.

Not sure if that counts as a stomp or not. Since Jotaro theoretically could win but (at least IMO) is more likely to get oneshot before he uses his means to win. Seems iffy to me.

Also what the heck is up with all these Kill la Kill threads lately? lol Seems like the show suddenly spiked up in popularity these past few days.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Jotaro's time stop abilities mean nought when he most likely gets one shotted by Mako due to not taking the initiative. Such as when Jotaro only time stopped after taking an attack from Crazy Diamond, however Jotaro cannot rely on his durability alone to test Mako's power.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Mako for the reasons stated above

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

The gap in AP and Dura between the two isn't that far off...at least to where i'm looking at, i presume.

Like Ryukama, i believe that with where SP's strength at plus it's ability to use it's time stop and selective intangiblity he could probably win this out with chip damaging and stuff.

However, i do not think he would go for that right away given that this is in character and all and thus he'll go with the usual OraOra route first, which by then may or may not be too late since Mako could like maybe beat him down with her superior power by then.

I feel that this is close IMO but Mako gets this for me here...

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Mako, especially if she does one of her little performances at the start of the battle as she often does... there's no way he would take her seriously enough off the bat after that and he'd lose quickly before he would have time to realize the threat.

 

[Numbersguy]

Unless Jotaro spams his time stop (which he really can't because of the effort), Mako is going to win at the end due having a higher durability and an attack potency that is a bit higher. Jotaro's attack speed is faster tho, but Mako is going to take those punches.

So, I vote for Mako

 

[IrMaXuS]

I don't know how to treat the "Morals on but willing to kill" condition of the fight. Does that mean they will aim to kill without using underhanded tricks? If so, then Mako does kinda take the fight.

However, if Jotaro knows that Mako can one-shot him, with Jotaro's wits, he'll time-stop immediately and hit vital spots such as the eyes (IF Jotaro's will to survive takes precedence over his morals, that is).

 

[Ryukama]

@Ir Standard Battle Assumptions (AKA the conditions of all fights unless stated otherwise) state among other things that:

1. Each person in character, except willing to kill (which is kinda what "Morals on but willing to kill" means)

2. Each character has absolutely NO prior knowledge of the other before the fight.

Jotaro will not know Mako has the power to one shot him. And in character isn't going to start off with the hax he needs to end the fight. Rather not take someone goofy like Mako seriously and fight h2h first off, which by then it's already over for him.

 

[IrMaXuS]

@Ir Standard Battle Assumptions (AKA the conditions of all fights unless stated otherwise) state among other things that:
1. Each person in character, except willing to kill (which is kinda what "Morals on but willing to kill" means)

2. Each character has absolutely NO prior knowledge of the other before the fight.

Jotaro will not know Mako has the power to one shot him. And in character isn't going to start off with the hax he needs to end the fight. Rather not take someone goofy like Mako seriously and fight h2h first off, which by then it's already over for him.

So this is an in-character fight to the death, I see. Then, under these circumstances, Jotaro would most likely lose as it is not in Jotaro's character to go all out firsthand in a fight. Meanwhile, Mako even with her goofy personality could deliver a casual blow at first, which would already be fatal for Jotaro.

Unless Jotaro somehow survives the first blow from Mako and her first blow manages to show how strong she is, I don't see Jotaro winning this.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I doubt it would be in Mako's character to throw a powerful punch straight towards Jotaro and kill him in the process, I think it would be more like a casual punch which would manage to injure Jotaro significantly but it wont be enough to put him out the fight.

The difference in strength between the two characters is not drastic (2.2 difference) and Star Platinum has already been able to withstand flurries upon flurries of attacks from The World so I don't think it's a stretch to say he could at least withstand one blow from a non fully serious Mako albeit with broken ribs and such. And by the way Jotaro's time stop would remain 5 seconds in a scenario where he is mortally injured, since he froze time despite suffering multiple injuries in Part 3.

 

[Ryukama]

@AMM So you're changing from you're previous vote for Mako? Alright. Mako does have morals but she isn't someone who underestimates people or severely holds back in a fight. Also going by the calc I found for Jotaro's rating (4027045000000 joules) and Mako's (22711358000000 joules) she would be 5.6x times stronger not 2.2. Getting hit with an attack that is over 5 and a half (maybe slightly less) times greater than his durability would definitely at least put him out of the fight.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Ryukama
I used the values in tons of tnt and done some rounding up. But going with the exact joules (and lower ends of both calcs) it's like a 2.8 difference. Not something I consider drastic such as the 5x difference. Plus Star Platinum/Jotaro recieved horrific beatings from The World who as I mentioned before broke his ribs and bones within the body. It's basically a dilemma of a MCB+ recieving a beat down from another of exact power and how it could possibly allow Jotaro to survive the initial first strike Mako will throw out.

Also, is she the type to let her first punch be the hardest one?

 

[Ryukama]

Well Mako's Low 7-C rating is the one accepted here, so that's why I considered that value. Mako isn't going to go 100% and be bloodlusted but she doesn't considerably restrain herself in fights or severly underestimate people, so I don't think it'll make much of a difference.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Well Mako's Low 7-C rating is the one accepted here, so that's why I considered that value. Mako isn't going to go 100% and be bloodlusted but she doesn't considerably restrain herself in fights or severly underestimate people, so I don't think it'll make much of a difference.

Both values on the calculation are low town, so I am not sure on what to gague her strength with.

 

[Ryukama]

Like I said I used the accepted 4027045000000 joules for Jotaro and the accepted 22711358000000 joules for Mako.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

The problem is that Mako's calc has both numbers at Low Town, so it's ambiguous as to what value specificaly is accepted in the calc. Was it mentioned in a thread somewhere or something?

 

[Ryukama]

I recalled hearing that value being the more accepted. However I'm not sure. Even then using the 11308560000000 joules for Mako twoards Jotaro's makes it 2.808153 or close to 3 times. That isn't as much as 5 and a half but it is still a considerable difference and if it isn't the first hit that kills him then it'd at least be a few hits within the first sequence of h2h that gets him out of the fight.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

if it isn't the first hit that kills him then it'd at least be a few hits within the first sequence of h2h that gets him out of the fight.

Once Jotaro gets hit by the first blow and realizes "holy shit this girl is a lot more powerful than I expected" he would have activated time stop and would quicky retalliate with a Star Platinum beat down. Also Jotaro has activated time stop and unleashed a beat down 10 years out of his prime and close to death. So it's not much of a stretch to say he could do it despite withtaking significant damage.

 

[Der_Purple_Ist_Dank]

Jotaro with high diffuculty for reasons stated by AMM.

 

[Ryukama]

The match really depends on which value of the calc is accepted. Mako isn't going to just stop after one hit. She's going to actually fight him. And 3x may not be as heavy of a difference but getting a big beating from someone triple your strength would at least knock you out or critically injure you for the fight. Jotaro has the hax to defeat her but I think it's more likely to go to h2h and then he'll get defeated too quickly. Except if the latter value is accepted it won't be first hit rather after a few.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

The lower bounds within a calculation is normally what gets accepted unless it was unjustly done or through some other explanation (which there is a lack off). Mako would follow through that I have no issue with, it's that it's extremely likely Jotaro would freeze time after the initial strike as that is exactly what he has done to physically superior stands (Crazy Diamond). Also Jotaro is no stranger to getting a complete walloping, Star Platinum managed to endure a full on assault by The World and still had strength to spare (punching the road roller) and was able to stomp Killer Queen (a stand which later on contended with Crazy Diamond) despite being in critical condition and out of his prime.

 

[Ryukama]

@AMM If Mako is only 3x stronger than him for this match, then I suppose Jotaro would win for your explanations.

 

[IrMaXuS]

This match heavily rides on Mako's initial strike. Obviously, for Mako to win, she needs to kill Jotaro before he realizes he's in a critical situation. She needs to one-hit kill Jotaro (As Jotaro's Star Platinum can time stop faster than Mako could react). If the time stop is successfully done, Jotaro takes the win with 5 seconds of accumulated damage towards Mako.

Looking at their stats, Mako's AP is superior to Jotaro's Durability. But now that I think about it, since they are fighting in-character, we wouldn't be sure if Mako would unleash an attack potent enough to one hit Jotaro (More than multi-city block) right off the bat. Knowing Mako's goofy personality and jolly nature, I'd think she's not the type to outright kill a human she's fighting against instantly. And I'm sure Jotaro, upon seeing Mako's strength, would not hesitate to timestop by then.

It's hard for me to decide. This fight would literally be decided with Mako's first strike. I was siding with Mako before but I forgot to consider her personality as well, which will affect the outcome heavily. By considering it, I'm kinda siding with Jotaro now.

 

[Ryukama]

Again Mako doesn't want to immediately kill someone but at the same time she's not someone who considerably holds back on people or is extremely concerned with defeating an oponent she doesn't know. And even if she wanted to hold back Standard Battle Assumptions make it that she has no way of knowing how much Jotaro can handle. The thing is Mako needs to one shot Jotaro to win but I'm not sure if 3x advantage is powerful enough to do that though her high end would be. So I'm a bit inconclusive.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

When Star Platinum and Mako engage in a physical confrontation, I doubt she would land a direct blow to the head or the torso. Since Star Platinum has a tendancy of having a peekabo style in where he assumes a defensive position to feel out his opponents (has displayed this against Crazy Diamond, The World and Rat) however it has admitidly put him in a disadvantagous position (where he got hit by the Rats dart which turned his flesh to goo). But as I have mentioned before, Star Platinum/Jotaro is no stranger to being baragged by stands of equal power and still having strength left to spare. So Star Platinum withstanding one strike from Mako (especially in a guarding stance) should not be too much of a stretch.

 

[Ryukama]

@AMM Do you mean like Mike Tyson's peekaboo style? Also I get that Jotaro has survived insane beatings from extremely fast characters, but I don't think we increase characters' durability if they survive barrages from FTL beings (and I do recall a dura upgrade for Goku on a similar premise being rejected) So if Mako has AP that is significantly higher than his dura, she could still one shot him despite him surviving a massive amount of hits with similar AP.

However I don't think 3x is that much and he is immediately going to stop time if he gets hit hard like that, which isn't really a move Mako could prevent. So I say if lowball for calc is used Jotaro wins.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yeah that style, it is true that you cannot alter a characters statistics based on the quantity of blows they withstand. But in a versus match it should be something worth considering as it can determine the likelyhood of a higher tier character one shotting a weaker character. For example a low end city block level character one shotting a large building level character who gets struck by a billion building level attacks (and still has strength to spare) sounds somewhat odd.

 

[Ryukama]

I get that Jotaro would have to have extreme amounts of strength to withstand all those attacks but if we increased characters' durabilties for surviving beatings from FTL beatings, we'd end up with horribly inflated results very similarly to why calc stacking is often looked down upon.

It really doesn't matter though much since Mako's more accepted value can't one shot him any how so she'd get time stopped and defeated that way.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

but if we increased characters' durabilties for surviving beatings from FTL beatings, we'd end up with horribly inflated results very similarly to why calc stacking is often looked down upon.

Nothing is being increased, it's just saying a character who can withstand ftl beatings would most likely not be put down by the first blow of a stronger oppositions attack. The opposition is still > the victim in terms of power. Just realized I am steering off topic, oops..

 

[Ryukama]

It's fine. No need to go on about this if we both agree on the victor.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Any more opinions?

 

[Der_Purple_Ist_Dank]

What are the votes at right now? (I'm still saying Jotaro btw)

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

From what i can somewhat see, it's 3 for Mako and i think 3 for Jotaro?

I can't tell because most of them was the value of Mako's calc feat thing. ^^;

 

[AquaWaifu]

I'd say Mako for having higher AP, and goofy or not, Mako isnt going to act like an idiot in an actual fight. Every time when she has donned her goku uniform she acted fairly serious. Now I could see Jotaro underestimating at due to just her appearance ( hell he might think of her as some bizarre copycat due to her outfit being an homage to his own) which I beleive would be his unfortunate downfall.

 

[IrMaXuS]

@AquaWaifu

Not giving it your all in the first punch you throw isn't exactly "acting like an idiot". Most characters that are not ruthless in fights have the "testing the waters" phase during the beginning of a fight (even fights to death) and we all know Mako is faaaaaaar from ruthless. Given the small gap between Mako's AP and Jotaro's Durability, and like AMM said that Jotaro has the tendency to make Star Platinum in a defensive stance first-hand, Mako has to give it her all, or atleast a good amount of effort, in the first punch she throws at Jotaro and aim for a one-hit kill. That's the only chance Mako will get because as soon as she lands a hit and Jotaro survives, he will instantly stop time upon realizing Mako is a threat and punch-barrage her to oblivion.

 

[AquaWaifu]

@IrMaXuS

I thought Mako's AP was a decent amount higher than Jotaro's Durability.

 

[Ryukama]

@AquaWaifu Mako's exact level of AP is unknown, but it's at least 3x greater and at most 5.6x.