Justice for Tokyo Revengers.

[Dinozxd]

There are still some things to discuss. Bullet speed outlier thing isn't only tied to the Izana feat, there are still some other points presented about that. Chifuyu feat as well. I agree with you on the scaling chain and fear hax (i think there is a possibility that can be viewed again in the future though).

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

The sub-bullet speed cap for the verse arguments is tied to the izana feat

Uh no, the Izana feat affects only himself and Mikey, they're top 2 of the verse so no one other than them scales.

We haven't even properly discussed Chifuyu's feat.

And I think the scaling chain would be needed to discussed too here, at least in the end.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Izana might just be inferior to South in everything. Given how there was an entire 2-year gap between the Tenjiiku arc and final arc. Also, South is someone who regularly practices. He even became an MMA fighter once everything was done.

 

[Zefra3011]

Izana might just be inferior to South in everything. Given how there was an entire 2-year gap between the Tenjiiku arc and final arc. Also, South is someone who regularly practices. He even became an MMA fighter once everything was done.

They are more less equal, but South DI is stronger, idk if we should discuss It again, both me and Morris already discussed in the first page, no one else said much about the scaling chain, unless Morris needs to add something it's also discussed.

 

[Zefra3011]

We haven't even properly discussed Chifuyu's feat.

Don't 3-4 months need to pass in order to discuss a rejected topic again?

 

[RoggerReggor]

They are more less equal, but South DI is stronger, idk if we should discuss It again, both me and Morris already discussed in the first page, no one else said much about the scaling chain, unless Morris needs to add something it's also discussed.

I guess that happened around 2-3 days ago when I was busy with a lot of work. But no, I don't think they are more or less equal. 2 years is a big time and that's a time so long that Takemichi became a high tier from a low-mid tier. South with urges is better of course. Secondly, if your entire argument is how South couldn't do anything to Mikey, but Izana literally was high diffing him, then it doesn't make sense because Mikey between Moebius arc to Valhalla arc got from being comparable to Hanma to no diffing him, Mikey's accelerated development is just on another level (also yes, I agree with Mikey having accelerated development now).

 

[Zefra3011]

again with this accelerated development.... When it has been accepted? is no where in the profile and I strongly disagree with that and I have no idea why you guys always start your arguments with the premise he has it, the only thing we have is that base Mikey is = to Hanma and DI Mikey is superior to Hanma, you always assume he gets stronger magically each arc, DI is at least a berserk mode which in fact increase the user's stats, there are few people who actually trains and Mikey isn't one of them, he only trained when he was younger.

 

[RoggerReggor]

again with this accelerated development.... When it has been accepted? is no where in the profile and I strongly disagree with that and I have no idea why you guys always start your arguments with the premise he has it, the only thing we have is that base Mikey is = to Hanma and DI Mikey is superior to Hanma, you always assume he gets stronger magically each arc, DI is at least a berserk mode which in fact increase the user's stats, there are few people who actually trains and Mikey isn't one of them, he only trained when he was younger.

LOL, I agreed with you before (and I somehow still do), but the thing is, we cannot prove how Mikey gets stronger through dark impulse. It would be like saying Mikey normally only uses 10% of his power.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Izana might just be inferior to South in everything. Given how there was an entire 2-year gap between the Tenjiiku arc and final arc. Also, South is someone who regularly practices. He even became an MMA fighter once everything was done.

As long as you’re hypothetically speaking that’s fine but be aware that this is not enough evidence for a definitive claim. I still consider Izana > South. Mikey doesn’t train yet he slapped the delusions out South.

And no Mikey doesn’t get stronger via Dark Impulse.

 

[RoggerReggor]

As long as you’re hypothetically speaking that’s fine but be aware that this is not enough evidence for a definitive claim. I still consider Izana > South. Mikey doesn’t train yet he slapped the delusions out South.

And no Mikey doesn’t get stronger via Dark Impulse.

I am not talking about DI, I am talking about Mikey's accelerated development, which is normally present, DI is not a compulsion.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Honestly i wonder what is left to talk about now.

 

[Zefra3011]

LOL, I agreed with you before (and I somehow still do), but the thing is, we cannot prove how Mikey gets stronger through dark impulse. It would be like saying Mikey normally only uses 10% of his power.

uh, you know the Hanma thing only proves Mikey DI is stronger than Mikey and there isn't a proof for Base Mikey being stronger than Base Mikey?

 

[Dinozxd]

I have some opinions on this stuff but don't have much free time these days. I'll try to reply here once i have the time.

 

[Zefra3011]

As long as you’re hypothetically speaking that’s fine but be aware that this is not enough evidence for a definitive claim. I still consider Izana > South. Mikey doesn’t train yet he slapped the delusions out South.

And no Mikey doesn’t get stronger via Dark Impulse.

Wait, assuming Mikey has accelerated development as you guys claim and from Moebius to Valhalla he got stronger without training wouldn't make sense that in 2 years without training he becomes also stronger?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wait, assuming Mikey has accelerated development as you guys claim and from Moebius to Valhalla he got stronger without training wouldn't make sense that in 2 years without training he becomes also stronger?

Isn’t the AD only shown to be Speed based?

No. Mikey’s AD activates in combat. He doesn’t spontaneously grow stronger doing nothing

 

[Zefra3011]

Isn’t the AD only shown to be Speed based?

It wouldn't really make sense tbh as in order to become faster you also have to output more energy.

No. Mikey’s AD activates in combat. He doesn’t spontaneously grow stronger doing nothing

But against Hanma he didn't fight the second time, bro just blitz him from as soon as the "fight" started and during the first time they fought they were relative from the start to the end.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

But against Hanma he didn't fight and during the first time they fought they were relative from the start to the end.

The growth doesn’t necessarily have to happen in every second. Mikey isn’t Garou.

There are a lot of reasons AD doesn’t activate. Such as doing something that isn’t difficult enough to warrant further development to overcome the situation. (Mikey didn’t even seem like he was trying his hardest against Hanma. Which means he trusted Takemichi would deal with Draken so much he became comfortable fighting that way. On their second encounter Mikey probably just became very serious and wipes him out.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like he's just saying that there should be a discussion rule against Tokyo Revengers being upgraded above Supersonic and that someone scaling to something was incredibly bad, so...

Frankly I don't even know why this is still ongoing, the verse has it's speed ratings in tact with accepted calcs and it seems much more wise to give the sea of Calc Group guys a break and just wait until new chapters with new stuff comes out

Maybe that should be the discussion rule, just straight up do not calculate feats released prior to whatever's the latest chapter unless they haven't been calculated before

This seems fine to me at least.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me at least.

@Dalesean027 @DMUA @ImmortalDread

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Dalesean027 @DMUA @ImmortalDread

I'll establish a discussion rule from this, but not at the moment since it's nighttime for me.

I'll definitely tackle this task tomorrow. Should I address it here or initiate a new staff thread?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that a staff forum thread may be necessary in order to receive sufficient input.

 

[Dalesean027]

yeah since they're waiting on the anime for the actual feat that matters I think its fine if we establish a discussion rule until then and if the anime doesn't support the supersonic stuff that's being pushed then that should be it and the rule should stay

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to me.

 

[RoggerReggor]

No. Mikey’s AD activates in combat. He doesn’t spontaneously grow stronger doing nothing

Pretty sure the AD is also based on how serious Mikey is. During the 2-years, he had started ruling over the Tokyo, I don't see him doing that without fighting.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Pretty sure the AD is also based on how serious Mikey is. During the 2-years, he had started ruling over the Tokyo, I don't see him doing that without fighting.

No. Being serious just means you’re no longer holding back.

Contrary to your belief, it’s possible to do so without fighting. Mikey’s status alone would prevent encounters. Even if Mikey fought it would be 0 difficulty. More proof is needed for you to claim Mikey grew within those 2 years with little to no effort.

 

[RoggerReggor]

No. Being serious just means you’re no longer holding back.

Contrary to your belief, it’s possible to do so without fighting. Mikey’s status alone would prevent encounters. Even if Mikey fought it would be 0 difficulty. More proof is needed for you to claim Mikey grew within those 2 years with little to no effort.

I don't think you understand me. My thought was that Mikey must have fought a lot in the 2 years gap. That's probably why he was one of the rulers of Tokyo, I don't see him doing that without any kind of fighting and violence.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't think you understand me. My thought was that Mikey must have fought a lot in the 2 years gap. That's probably why he was one of the rulers of Tokyo, I don't see him doing that without any kind of fighting and violence.

And I’m saying that Mikey doesn’t need to fight to grow a squad thanks to his widely known “Invincible” status. Even if there were those who were suicidal and wanted to test the title, Mikey would one shot them with little effort. We can’t keep making speculations outside of what we know. Also check out the message with Zefra, not all fights no matter how easy leads to growth.

 

[RoggerReggor]

And I’m saying that Mikey doesn’t need to fight to grow a squad thanks to his widely known “Invincible” status. Even if there were those who were suicidal and wanted to test the title, Mikey would one shot them with little effort. We can’t keep making speculations outside of what we know. Also check out the message with Zefra, not all fights no matter how easy leads to growth.

That makes sense.

 

[Dinozxd]

Ah, I finally have time for this.

I do think that Mikey getting faster between arcs without training is kinda weird. We don't see Base Mikey develop at all so Base Mikey shouldn't have AD. With that being said, i think DI Mikey having Reactive Power is not logical too as he only develops statistics wise and that falls under AD.

Mikey not developing between arcs contadicts Dark Impulse not being a stat amp too (his fights vs Hanma are undeniable proof). Dark Impulse should just be a mix of Rage Power, Accelerated Development and Stat Ampification imo.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Okay. That seems fine to me.

Tokyo Revengers: Discussion Rule

Introduction It is ironic that the thread has been requested by staff members and others to be first concluded and then creation of this thread, as it is intended to be brief and not exceed two pages. Nonetheless, it has now reached a length of five pages, and I must express that the issue is...

vsbattles.com

Here, I have created it.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Just wanted to clarify.

I think Morris' scaling chain makes sense (but Mikey should still be superior to Izana), but how does that work in real times?

• On the current situation of the verse, almost all the characters, even Mitsuya and Chifuyu are subsonic+. On the calculation page, the subsonic+ feats are performed by only Mikey and Izana.
• From the above, all the characters below should be lower. Mid-high tiers should scale to Crying Blue Ogre Angry, who is subsonic off this. So, exceptions are high-tiers, which includes characters from above Ogre Angry, like the three deities and Takemichi, should we give them an "At least Subsonic, possibly higher" rating? I think for South, we can warp it at "At least Subsonic, likely higher" since he gets a lot stronger with Urges, to the point that even Senju from the three deities is getting mid-diffed by him, possibly low-diffed.

So, to summarize:
D.I. Mikey: Subsonic+ and Supersonic attack speed
Mikey base: Subsonic+
Izana: Subsonic+
South: Subsonic, likely higher
High tiers (the three deities, Takemichi): Subsonic, possibly higher
Mid tiers and Low-mid tiers: Subsonic
Characters who use weaponry and classify as either of the above should get "higher attack speed ith weaponry" or "much higher attack speed with weaponry" depending on the weapons they use. For example, Sanzu would get "higher attack speed with weaponry" because he uses a sword, while Kisaki would get "much higher attack speed with weaponry" because he's been recognized using a Beretta M9 pistol which is supersonic and has the potency to use more dangerous weapons, if not, we can even keep Kisaki as "Subsonic, Supersonic attack speed with Beretta M9, much higher attack speed with stronger weaponry".

Does the above seem fine?

 

[Antvasima]

Tokyo Revengers: Discussion Rule

Introduction It is ironic that the thread has been requested by staff members and others to be first concluded and then creation of this thread, as it is intended to be brief and not exceed two pages. Nonetheless, it has now reached a length of five pages, and I must express that the issue is...

vsbattles.com

Here, I have created it.

Thank you for helping out.

Is there anything left to do in this thread, or should we close it now?

 

[RoggerReggor]

Is there anything left to do in this thread, or should we close it now?

Many things left to discuss, I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Zefra3011]

Is there anything left to do in this thread, or should we close it now?

I think only the scaling chain since everything else is covered by the discussion rule,

I think this should be closed tho, I don't think the staff is interested in evaluating TR related threads since many of them don't want to get involved with the verse, I would suggest to give the staff a break from TR even from not calc related threads, we can open this again or make another one only for the scaling chain any time later, we should see what Morris wants to do tho since he is the OP.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if you make a summary explanation post about the scaling chain, Dalesean, myself, and possibly DMUA and M3X, might be able to help you reach a conclusion.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Well, if you make a summary explanation post about the scaling chain, Dalesean, myself, and possibly DMUA and M3X, might be able to help you reach a conclusion.

Ok.

First of all, the OP has got everything regarding the scaling scale (and it is here in the scaling chain part). I think that applies to speed and attack potency (not LS since LS is not a very big deciding factor on how you win in fights).

We argued about how Izana should be inferior but that is questionable since Arnold also argued that Mikey doesn't magically get stronger without fighting really hard, which makes sense. I don't think there are many arguments against that.

Izana aside, the scale for other characters doesn't seem to be much controversial. D.I. Mikey should be a lot stronger than other characters simply because he was able to get an upper hand singlehandedly in the final arc, and one-shot almost everyone.

I also tried to summarize what the new tiers of the characters (regarding speed since the AP is not the big issue with TR but speed probably is) here upon using the scaling chain by Morris.

Edit: Zefra also has his own version of the scaling chain of the verse as addressed here.

(I think I covered most stuff but if someone has to add more, please do.)

 

[Zefra3011]

Well since Morris and me have 2 different versions of it I'll just point out both.

@MorrisHatesYou version (basically what he wrote in the OP):

This is how the scaling chain goes:
Mikey=Izana> South> Kakucho> Takemichi (final arc)> Senju > Angry> Taiju>= Mucho> Wakasa=Benkei> Inui=Koko> Draken> Hanma> Osanai> Mid tiers (Chifuyu, Baji, Ryusei, Kazutora, Mitsuya, Hakkai, Peh Yan, Pah Chin, Smiley, Ran, Rindou, Sanzu, Mochi> Low tiers (Takemichi [before final arc], Kisaki, Akkun, Makoto, Takuya, Yamagishi, Shion, Kojiro).

Reasoning:
Mikey's position is self explanatory.
Izana was able to dominate Mikey in Tenjiku fight even when Mikey was going all out.
South is 3rd because he defeated characters like Kakucho and Senju, and only lost to Mikey, the reason why Izana is higher because South got defeated with low difficulty by Mikey, while Mikey had much harder time against Izana.

Mucho defeated Inui with low difficulty, Wakasa and Benkei defeated Inui and Koko with high difficulty. So this makes Mucho scale above Wakasa and Benkei.
The reason why Inui and Koko scales higher than Draken is because Wakasa fought Base South a lot better than Draken did, and Inui and Koko are only slightly weaker than Wakasa and Benkei.

Draken scales above Hanma because he defeated Hanma, however it is with a high difficulty.

Osanai defeated Pah Chin, who's a mid tier, with a low difficulty, so by default, Osanai scales above all mid tiers.

Scaling Taiju is a bit hard, but we can know that he defeated Inui with low difficulty, same as Mucho.
Angry scales above Taiju because Taiju had problem fighting against Wakasa and Benkei although he defeated them, while Angry was capable of defeating Mucho with a low difficulty, who should be A LOT stronger than Wakasa or Benkei. But we don't really know how Mucho would deal with both of them. So Taiju and Mucho would be pretty relative, but it doesn't hurt to place Taiju higher than Mucho since he has better narrative.

Kakucho scales above Angry because he defeated Angry with low difficulty.
Takemichi in the final arc is relative to Kakucho, but I placed Kakucho higher since he was much more physically active during Tenjiku arc than in final arc.

The hardest part is deciding where Senju scales since only her notable serious fight is against South.
We'd have to use Kakucho as a base for the scaling of Senju.
Kakucho in the final arc was supposed to get KO'D by Takemichi (since Takemichi's full power was revealed), but then after Mikey mentioned about Izana, Kakucho got back his fighting spirit and he went comparable to Takemichi.
So we have two different versions of Kakucho, the one without fighting spirit who was depressed because of Izana's death and the one with fighting spirit, the difference between these two Kakucho(s) is very high since like I said, the Kakucho with fighting spirit can (who was comparable to Takemichi) can KO Kakucho without fighting spirit in a single hit.

The Kakucho without the fighting spirit is already absurdly strong, because in the flashbacks he was able to push South to his dark urges, and when Senju knocked south down, South said that it's been a while since he's that fired up, he should be directly referencing the fight he had with Kakucho since he tend to recruit the stronger members to his gang, here he recruited the S-62 generation and Kakucho.
Also when the legendary duo got upper hand against South, South looked down on them, but when Kakucho was knocked out by Mikey, he was very surprised.

South with urges has three different versions, the first one is when he was against the legendary duo, the second is stronger and it is when he fought Senju, the third one is the strongest, and that was against Mikey.

The South Kakucho fought is in between the first and second version, with second version being closer.

So based on this, Kakucho with fighting spirit can KO the Kakucho who is near South second urge version and Senju. So Kakucho with fighting spirit will scale above Senju.

So, only Izana and Mikey should scale to feats done by them.
South, Kakucho, Takemichi, Senju and Angry should be in the same vaccum.
Taiju and Mucho should scale similarly.
Wakasa, Benkei, Inui and Koko should also scale to one another.
Same with Draken and Hanma.
Osanai should be above mid tiers, but lower than Draken and Hanma.
All mid tiers should scale to one another.
Low tiers are characters who can get KO'D by mid tiers with a single strike, their scaling is not that consistent, they're just slightly stronger than average delinquents.

@Zefra3011 version:

Talking in terms of stats and not overall who is stronger, Izana scaling to Base Mikey is completely fine, but there are a lot of characters who actually simply downscale to him too Hanma is the first one who downscales from base Mikey since he was able to block his kick due to his extraordinary vision/reaction and showed comparability with him, he got no diffed by DI Mikey tho, so we have Base Mikey >= Hanma while DI Mikey > Hanma (DI is considered a stats amp so Mikey DI > Base Mikey), Draken scales to Hanma as you pointed out, so we have Hanma = Draken, Base South also scales above Draken so we have Base South >= Draken which is also justified by a statment which puts South on pair with Mikey, both Wakasa and Benkei should scale to Base South since they could more less fight him while doing 2v1 but they showed to be able to handle him even in 1v1 situations, when South went DI/DU (if you prefer you can call them dark impulses as Mikey or Dark urges) he could no diff them both but when DI Mikey faced DI South Mikey won, Senju full potential scales higher than Base South since she can no diff him but she barely kept up with DI South, Base Senju doesn't have great feats but she was able to beat 100 guys by her own which is a similar feat performed by Draken when he could beat the entire Black Dragons by his own (100 members) and he took some damage while Senju didn't so they should be comparable even because captains aren't able to beat 100 guys by their own so at bare minimum she upscales from captains, Kakucho also should downscale from Izana since Izana was afraid he could become stronger than him so he put a rule saying Izana's punches can't be avoided and he is superior to Angry as you pointed out which makes him > Captain level, Takemichi with Resolution also scales to Kakucho since they showed relativity in the final arc, while Base Takemichi is weak so he goes down to low tiers.

One of the main differences between the 2 chains is that Wakasa and Benkei are relative to Inui and Koko while in my chain I explained why I don't think they are:

First we have Inui and Wakasa in 1v1 when we can see an enormus difference in damage, also Benkei said the Wakasa Inui fought was "soft" which basically means he wasn't going all out, here is implied Wakasa and Benkei were regretting joining the Kanto Manji Gang because they still had the Black Dragon first gen spirit which is completely different from the Kanto Manji Gang spirit so they probably weren't totally ok in fighting that way even because they were against Inui who also is a first gen like them, another reason Wakasa and Benkei weren't going all out is because when they fight they always coordinate their attacks this way: wakasa goes first attcking the opponent without dealing much damage but using his acrobatics skills he is able to stun him while Benkei just go bulldozing the opponent after Wakasa did his job but here they didn't fight their usual way since they just attacked randomly, another factor is the amount of damage which is clearly different, so a soft Wakasa with a probably soft Benkei (even if he said he wasn't soft he didn't really show that) who didn't really want to fight while fighting randomly are still incredibly superior than Inui e Koko, just to add reasons when Wakasa and Benkei faced Taiju they instead used their normal way of fighting and Taiju is stronger than Inui and Koko and didn't share the first gen spirit so we have a clear difference in a full power Wakasa and Benkei and the ones Inui and Koko fought, last thing if Inui and Koko were truly comprable to Wakasa and Benkei they should be able to handle Base South but Inui clearly couldn't since when they introduced South we see a post fight Inui vs Base South and Inui was no diffed, therefore is better to keep Inui and Koko just Captains level.

Taiju isn't superior to Wakasa and Benkei since is implied the reason he won is because they were tired while when they weren't much tired they were no diffing him, and if he was relative to them he would be on the same level as Base Mikey but Taiju got no diffed by him so he is no where near that level.

Another characters who is usually downplaied is Sanzu who in fact fight on pair with Kakucho, tho he is able to keep up with him mainly because his katana which in fact "increase his combat speed", is not literally but since he is using a long weapon the speed it is moving is higher than the one Sanzu does, this happens IRL too, so without it he should be just captain level.

Captains are all more less comparable, 100% and 70% Taiju who scales above Mitsuya should therefore scale above all the captains but still isn't no where near Base Mikey level as explained above, Mucho auto proclamated himself the strongest captain which I wouldn't say is very reliable sincewe have to take in account that he isn't aware of other captains strenght as we can see when he fought Angry (who is a vice-captain), Mucho wasn't aware about his full potential and lost to him so ignoring this statment and putting Angry and Sanzu above him is completely fine imo, Mucho also was able to beat Inui so he scales above him, I'll list everyone who scales around Captain Level below.

Another point is that takemichi is only able to keep up with a non 100% DI Mikey thx his future visions which allow him to dodge Mikey's attacks and was able to land an hit on him just because he could find the right moment when Mikey couldn't dodge it because he was finishing his kick but normally it would be impossible for him also because that Mikey was no diffing him and a 100% DI Mikey killed him in some attacks.

So we have:

The Strongest:

• DI Mikey as top 1 with DI South and FP Senju downscaling from him (they upscales from their base versions and from their feats in this versions)
• Base Mikey, Base South, Izana, Wakasa and Benkei share the same scaling with Draken, Hanma, Kakucho,Takemichi with Resolution, Base Senju and Sanzu with a katana downscaling from them. (They upscale from Captains level feats + their own feats)

Captains Level (They scale higher than Below Captain Level feats and also scale from their own feats):
Taiju and Angry are the strongest here so they upscale from captains feat, every captain and vice-captain from Toman, Osanai, Rin, Ran, Inui, Koko Mocchi, Ryusei and Kojiro (Kojiro alone just downscale from captains) (hope I didn't forget anyone) are all around the same level.

Below Captain Level (They scale from their own feats):
Takemichi without resolution, Kisaki, Kyomasa, Shion, Akkun and Sinichiro (these are generally treated as weak characters so they don't have incredible feats therefore they only scale from low tier feats as they are all more less relative between them)

Another thing why I think mine is better is that Morris chain contradicts the profiles, as the profiles have Mikey and South with stats amp or at least a berserk mode with their Dark Impulses which mean while they are in this state they are stronger than their base form, Morris one doesn't take in account that because he doesn't think Dark Impulses make you stronger and he thinks Mikey simply has Accelerated development and that's why he first couldn't do much against Hanma but after (when he was in Dark Impulses) he could one shot him and I want to point out in the first fight Mikey never become stronger but he kept his stats the same while Morris and Arnold said he grews stronger during the fights which does against takemichi (here we have a Dark Impulses Mikey and reactive power is already under Dark Impulses in his profile) while against Hanma he didn't become faster even if one of his friends was basically dying so by logic he wanted to end the fight as soon as possible (here we have a Base Mikey), also South went from being on pair with Wakasa and Benkei to no diffing them as soon as his Dark Impulses (or Dark Urges) activated (the scans are above) and MIkey's Dark Impulses if anything should be even stronger than South's ones.

 

[Zefra3011]

@MorrisHatesYou I probably missed something so make a reply.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

You know what? Dark Impulses doesn't make Mikey stronger, should I create a new thread for this? Or should I dismantle the statistics amplification on dark impulses right here and now?
It's already accepted, so should I create a new thread for it or just argue here?