Kakashi vs Kenshiro

[Huesito88]

Trying this

Both start out at full power for Kakashi, it's Perfect Susanoo, and for Kenshiro it's seals lifted

Speed is equalized

Kenshiro: 1 (Zensum)

Kakashi: 5 (PTSOXMONKEY99, Grimreaperofjustice, Ricsi-viragosi, Axl233, Korudo Daio)

Inconclusive: 8 (KinkiestSins, Shadowbokunohero, TheFinalOrder, Lapitus The Impaler, Dzhindzholia, Celestial Judge, Dragon Ariia, Knightofannihilation66)

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[LordGinSama]

Kakashi is already dead.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I think Kakshi eventually BFR's or genjutsu's. Ken's best mind manipulation resistance feat was against a Jabba the Hutt expy that tried to hynotize him with drugs and such, and while (iirc) it worked on a large group of people, it just doesn't compare to the mindscrew of the Narutoverse.

 

[LordGinSama]

Isn't Genjutsu an illusion and not mind manipulation?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Wait, I was thinking off Madara. But regardless, it'll still severely hinder Ken's ability to fight.

 

[Kepekley23]

Genjutsu-wise, I wouldn't argue Kakashi is that good. He should be below Kabuto, who could put the entire Chunin Exams stadium to sleep.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Which is more than what Ken can handle

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Genjutsu-wise, I wouldn't argue Kakashi is that good. He should be around Kabuto, who could put the entire Chunin Exams stadium to sleep.

He can match Obito, Genjutsu to Genjutsu, and Obito could mindfuck a Perfect Jin / Kage Level Ninja and totally screw over Akatsuki level Ninja.

Kakashi also knocked out 2 Anbu casually via a glance.

 

[Kepekley23]

@TFO

We categorize mind-related hax by the number of people it can affect, and not by the strength of what it has affected, since mindhax ignores durability anyway.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I would say Sharingan Genjutsu >>>>> Kabuto's genjutsu. Genjutsu from the Mangekyō >>>>>> normal Sharingan Genjutsu.

DMS Kakashi's genjutsu is surely above Kabuto's. Dude was avoiding eye contact with EMS Sasuke anyway. Obito has better genjutsu feats than EMS Sasuke, as far as I know.

 

[Kepekley23]

Kabuto has the best range-Genjutsu feat in the entire series aside from IT & T and a few exceptions. I wouldn't call it lower than Sharingan Kakashi's genjutsus. It was easily above anything everyone had shown up until then.

DMS Kakashi's genjutsu is surely above Kabuto's though.

 

[LordWhis]

Does Kenshiro have any way to counter Kakashi's reality warping ?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Err, what?

@Kep

I agree with DMS Kakashi. The reason why I said I believe normal Sharingan Genjutsu - not necessarily Kakashi's alone - is better is because Sakura managed to resist Kabuto's genjutsu. I'd say three tomoe Itachi, Obito, Kakashi, Shisui etc would no-diff Sakura with their Sharingan Genjutsu. Especially Itachi and Obito.

 

[LordWhis]

@bff:

Kakashi's kamui attacks are for all practical purposes low-end reality warping.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay...

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Silvervigilant]

bump

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I.. actually dont know...

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[KinkiestSins]

Very interesting matchup, so I will break this down.

Kakashi Advantages

-Better Physical Defense with Susanoo + Kamui Phasing

-BFR

-More diverse combat Experience + maybe Smarter

-If this goes to just fist to fist (I doubt this), he can overcome Kenshiro probably in close combat with his Sharingan.

-If I wanked as hard as I can, maybe his Sharingan can copy anything else that isnt Muso Tensei.

Kenshiro Advantages

-Probably Higher AP (Kakashi is barely baseline and tbh, that is with one jutsu. Kenshiro is 6-B period.)

-Muso Tensei offers better Offense and Defense that Kakashi literally cant touch.

-Death Manipulation ggez.

-Power Nullification is a real trouble to begin with, without Susanoo, Kakashi gets oneshot.

-Better Precog

-Probably better Mind Control

-Better stamina

Things I am inconclusive on:

Kakashi could have access to resistance to Sleep Manipulation if I stretched my imagination wildly, considering he stopped Kabutos genjutsu that put everyone to sleep. I will chalk this up to Kenshiro able to put him to sleep, but I dont think it would impact the factor long term

Thematically, the two somewhat built their styles around their varying strengths and weaknesses. Kakashi relies on the Sharingan, Tactics and Deception to defeat his opponent. It is very concievable that he can BFR kenshiro if he lets his guard down. I will even give him his Power Mimicry to copy his basic abilities, like Ice, Chi etc Manipulation.

Now my two questions is can he bypass Muso Tensei and can he bypass his power nullification? I am ignorant on the latter, but the former I want to say no. Even if Kakashi could try to BFR him in this state, Kenshiro is also just as likely as to one shot Kakashi.

Kakashi is very careful, so I dont think anyone will try to argue that he will just rush in and kill himself. On Paper Kenshiro can one shot, but considering Kakashi Nature, I doubt this will be an issue.

As for his power nullification, it only seems to nullify energy attacks, so wanking it to just his elemental ninjutsu, Kakashi still has his one ticket out with Kamui.

Kamui + Susanoo really does turn this to Kenshiro's favor to it being pretty even.

I will vote Inconclusive, leaning to Kenshiro considering he has more methods to one shot, but I dont see either one of them winning in a serious, in character brawl.

Especially since Kakashi will open with clones and other defensive techniques to analyze his opponent.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hte power null comes from sorya tenra iirc which will leave the two in a white void between life and death and must settle this in a fist fight to the death iirc. This was used by kasumi kenshiro which he and liu were only using their fists to win which can leave kakashi in a disadvantage

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Voting Inconclusive FRA.

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Incon FRA

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"-Probably better Mind Control"

Sharingan genjutsu is better as people noted higher.

"-Power Nullification is a real trouble to begin with, without Susanoo, Kakashi gets oneshot."

Kamui GG.

Inconclusve for now.

 

[KinkiestSins]

"-Probably better Mind Control"
Sharingan genjutsu is better as people noted higher.

No one said that, they just said that Sharingan Genjutsu > Other Genjutsu

Besites IT, and Tysukiyomi, they are right.

Plus, Kakashi never relied on Genjutsu.

"Kamui GG"

Yeah, still my point stands.

Kakashi still gets one shot in base.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Kakashi is most likely gonna take this via hacks I doubt he can fight Kenshiro in a physical fight though.

I'll wait to here from some people more knowledgeable on Kenshiro.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

Isn't Genjutsu an illusion and not mind manipulation?

Depending on what the Genjutsu like Mangekyou Sharingan, Kotoamatsukami, Infinate Tsykioumi, and Shaklee stakes the illusion leads to mind manip basacally tossing in a vote for KAKASHI hes still having the advantage in ap and he can spam clones to where either Kenshiro will be overwhelmed or give Kakshi a fair shot with purple lightning if not Rakiri

 

[Huesito88]

I'll count your vote Grim, but Kakashi doesn't have the ap advantage

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

^ I kno I just realized teir 7 and 6 but other resons should be enough also Kakashi overwhelmed Kaguya for a burst and BFR should be enough right?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Can Kenshiro counter kamui shurikens?

Also,Kakashi's BFR via Kamui now works a lot faster.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

No he cant because its sending him to a dimension its the ultimate hax for people who dont have resistence or have teleportation of that degree

 

[KinkiestSins]

^ I kno I just realized teir 7 and 6 but other resons should be enough also Kakashi overwhelmed Kaguya for a burst and BFR should be enough right?

BFR is fair

Overwhelming Kaguya is probably PIS or else he would be Low 5-B.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Can Kenshiro counter kamui shurikens?
Also,Kakashi's BFR via Kamui now works a lot faster.

By making himself intangible, yes.

And alot faster how? Speed is equalized.

One can bfr, the other one shots.

So it practically evens out.