Kenjaku Piercing Blood Dodging Calc

[Lilybitdun]

There's two accepted calcs of Kenjaku dodging Choso's initial Piercing Blood in their fight. Here's the differences between the two so we can decide works better

Jujutsu Kaisen: Kenjaku dodges Piercing Blood

vsbattles.fandom.com

JJK: Kenjaku's First PB Dodge

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mine: Mach 2.804638 reaction speed (Supersonic+), 280.48694 microseconds perception speed (Hypersonic+)

• Calculates eye size, includes perception speed, has his minimum distance be moving his head sideways

ELJoaki's: Mach 4.6 reaction speed (Supersonic+)

• Assumes eye size, has less steps of pixel scaling, has his minimum distance moved be moving his head downwards

Lilybitdun Calc:
ELJoaki Calc: Floxy178 (But with movement being half of head width + half of projectile width instead)

 

[Lilybitdun]

I do think ElJoaki's calc is infinitely more well formatted and readable, I'll try to fix the readability of mine after I wake up

 

[ElJoaki5]

The perception speed is wrong. PB clearly traveled more than 18 cm before Kenjaku reacted.
I personally think a downwards dodge is better.

Since this is my own calc Im pretty sure my vote doesnt count tho.

And yeah PB doesn't deaccelerate that much as has already been explained.

 

[Lilybitdun]

The perception speed is wrong. PB clearly traveled more than 18 cm before Kenjaku reacted.

His eyes were closed when Choso fired PB, meaning he only noticed the attack after it traveled most of the distance between him and Choso


What I'm measuring is his perception speed of him noticing it moving the distance of the bottom panel of page 2 to the next one on the top of page 3

Edit: for some reason it's not embedding but it's the feat scan I had provided in my blog

 

[ElJoaki5]

His eyes were closed when Choso fired PB, meaning he only noticed the attack after it traveled most of the distance between him and Choso


What I'm measuring is his perception speed of him noticing it moving the distance of the bottom panel of page 2 to the next one on the top of page 3

Edit: for some reason it's not embedding but it's the feat scan I had provided in my blog

Oh I see. But still, we dont know when he opened his eyes.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Also the reason I did sideways movement instead is due to us seeing him bending leftwards in the next panel plus the motion lines implying he moved sideways first

 

[Lilybitdun]

Oh I see. But still, we dont know when he opened his eyes.

True but his eyes dilating implies him being caught off guard, which does suggest the previous panel is when he opened his eyes since he doesn't show that reaction to future PBs in the fight

this will probably be clarified in the anime tho

 

[ElJoaki5]

True but his eyes dilating implies him being caught off guard, which does suggest the previous panel is when he opened his eyes since he doesn't show that reaction to future PBs in the fight

That isnt sufficient proof still. Just an assumption.

 

[Lilybitdun]

That isnt sufficient proof still. Just an assumption.

Assuming his eyes were already opened would mean a PB can travel a long distance before he can perceive/react (we see him visually notice it only once it's close to his face)

We know this isn't the case due to him reacting to a point blank PB later on


I feel like saying his eyes were still closed and/or was off guard is a fair assumption

 

[Floxy178]

Assuming his eyes were already opened would mean a PB can travel a long distance before he can perceive/react (we see him visually notice it only once it's close to his face)

Actually not long, just unknown distance.

Anyway is it just me or Kenjaku seems to lean backwards as well? It's hard to tell from the panel. If not, I prefer first calculation. But I'll look more in depth after my question gets answered.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Actually not long, just unknown distance.

Wdym unknown distance? My calc measures the distance it traveled

Anyway is it just me or Kenjaku seems to lean backwards as well? It's hard to tell from the panel. If not, I prefer first calculation. But I'll look more in depth after my question gets answered.

I had addressed this in the calc and in here

Now with Kenjaku's speed, method based on this calc, because I'm doubtful of his movement being the lean back since the cursed spirit is also shown to have moved up the beam

Also the reason I did sideways movement instead is due to us seeing him bending leftwards in the next panel plus the motion lines implying he moved sideways first

ElJoaki's calc also doesn't include the lean, only downward movement

 

[Floxy178]

Wdym unknown distance? My calc measures the distance it traveled

Your calc assumes Kenjaku opened his eyes at exact moment when we get first panel of him and PB and otherwise it means PB traveled significant distance and Kenjaku couldn't perceive it which would be inconsistent, but that doesn't necessarily mean his eyes were open from start, it could've happened unknown amount of time before the panel.

I had addressed this in the calc and in here


ElJoaki's calc also doesn't include the lean, only downward movement

I see. However I don't think your distance for Kenjaku's movement is usable due to bad perspective. I'd probably go with half of head width + half of projectile width instead.

As for PB speed, I'll leave it to supporters, but from the scan linked it's only talking about slowing down from being redirected after miss rather than slowing down until reaching target. So supersonic works I think?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Your calc assumes Kenjaku opened his eyes at exact moment when we get first panel of him and PB and otherwise it means PB traveled significant distance and Kenjaku couldn't perceive it which would be inconsistent, but that doesn't necessarily mean his eyes were open from start, it could've happened unknown amount of time before the panel.

At worst wouldn't that just make the perception speed a possibly rating?
I do still think the assumption of him having just opened his eyes works best tho due to him being to react very close to his face as shown here

other instances of Kenjaku dodging PB at comparable distances don't have his pupils contract either which supports him having just opened his eyes

I see. However I don't think your distance for Kenjaku's movement is usable due to bad perspective. I'd probably go with half of head width + half of projectile width instead.

I don't think it's bad enough that it's not usable but I would be fine using that for movement instead if yall think it works better

As for PB speed, I'll leave it to supporters, but from the scan linked it's only talking about slowing down from being redirected after miss rather than slowing down until reaching target. So supersonic works I think?

Yeah originally I thought when making the calc that it deaccelerates with distance but Kenjaku is talking about when Choso tries alter the trajectory of PB that it loses it's speed

so Supersonic speed should be used

 

[Floxy178]

At worst wouldn't that just make the perception speed a possibly rating?
I do still think the assumption of him having just opened his eyes works best tho due to him being to react very close to his face as shown here

other instances of Kenjaku dodging PB at comparable distances don't have his pupils contract either which supports him having just opened his eyes

All that doesn't justify the fact that you're using highest end just because lowest end isn't consistent with other feats shown.

I mean, you can just use other feats for finding his perception speed then.

 

[Lilybitdun]

All that doesn't justify the fact that you're using highest end just because lowest end isn't consistent with other feats shown.

Isn't going for the consistent end what we're meant to do?

I mean, you can just use other feats for finding his perception speed then.

nah the other feats don't really work for finding perception speed since he clearly sees Choso using PB in front of him, the others are just reaction speed

 

[Floxy178]

nah the other feats don't really work for finding perception speed since he clearly sees Choso using PB in front of him, the others are just reaction speed

Then how do these support high end of our feat?

Isn't going for the consistent end what we're meant to do?

2 reasons:
1. If other feats could make this more consistent then they'd actually need to be usable for perception speed calc of that level.
2. You're acting like only 2 ends are possible, while it's not. They're just only ends we can determine. Like could you say that only highest end makes it consistent, and for example Kenjaku opening his eyes several nanoseconds before panel doesn't? Basically if we accept that lowest end is in fact inconsistent, that doesn't automatically make highest one valid.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Then how do these support high end of our feat?

perception being higher than reaction speed just in general. Plus there aren't feats that debunk that level of perception speed either. Casually dodging Supersonic attacks wouldn't be an anti-feat for Hypersonic+ perception speed

1. If other feats could make this more consistent then they'd actually need to be usable for perception speed calc of that level.
2. You're acting like only 2 ends are possible, while it's not. They're just only ends we can determine. Like could you say that only highest end makes it consistent, and for example Kenjaku opening his eyes several nanoseconds before panel doesn't? Basically if we accept that lowest end is in fact inconsistent, that doesn't automatically make highest one valid.

Saying he opened his eyes in the middle of the attack offscreen is a bigger assumption than the high-end which has actual evidence in the scene to back it up (Pupil contraction, him otherwise acting very casual in other PB dodges in the same range). We don't have a reason to assume a middle end here

 

[Floxy178]

perception being higher than reaction speed just in general. Plus there aren't feats that debunk that level of perception speed either. Casually dodging Supersonic attacks wouldn't be an anti-feat for Hypersonic+ perception speed

I never said such a thing?

Saying he opened his eyes in the middle of the attack offscreen is a bigger assumption than the high-end which has actual evidence in the scene to back it up (Pupil contraction, him otherwise acting very casual in other PB dodges in the same range). We don't have a reason to assume a middle end here

We don't have that evidence. We don't know when he opened his eyes, just that they were already opened in that panel. I don't see why assuming he didn't do it at exact moment of panel is somehow bigger assumption.

 

[Vzearr]

None of these calcs make any sense, they're highballed and lowballed at the same time, can we not devote ourselves to either of these calcs? They're just bad.

Issues with the CGM'S calculations:

1. Using the eye to top of forehead is wrong. The forehead caves inwards, making the distance larger as he "moves downwards to dodge it.
2. Your pixel scaling, to put it bluntly, is just a bit weird, your green line should be longer and the yellow line should be shorter.
3. The camera angle is tilted to the side of his face, which in turn screws with the POV, and makes the eye look, well, smaller than it usually is, making your pixel line all screwed up.
4. When the eye's pixel scaling is messed up because of the POV, the distance to the eye is also messed up. Due to the POV not being to the side and instead at a 45 degree angle, the distance between the spike and the eye seems larger/smaller, can't be bothered to figure out which one rn.

Side Note: Using larger pixel lines kinda messes up the distances, by a small amount. Anyway's lets get back into the bette

Issues with the your calculations:

Okay this is an eye sore to read, sorry, but I'll give you some things I noticed at a quick glance.

1. Almost all of the issues above.
2. Considering he's walking, why are we using the distance between them?
3. Did you just calculate acceleration (m/s^2) and then minus that from speed (m/s)? They are different types of physical quantities, you can't just do that.

 

[Lilybitdun]

We don't have that evidence. We don't know when he opened his eyes, just that they were already opened in that panel. I don't see why assuming he didn't do it at exact moment of panel is somehow bigger assumption.

Evidence for that panel being when he opens his eyes:

1. In the panel where PB is in front of his face he has a relaxed expression
2. The next panel we see his eyes contract in reaction to the PB, clearly showing how it was unexpected
3. Every other time he dodges PB at a similar distance he is completely relaxed and casual; heavily implying the first PB dodge has a difference to the others

Evidence for him opening his eyes between panels

1. The possibility he could've them slightly sooner than shown

Like if you're gonna say it CANNOT be the high-end you have to at least give better evidence for him opening his eyes sooner because just the sheer possibility it happend off panel. You could imply this same happened-in-between-panels logic with every comic/manga feat ever

 

[Lilybitdun]

3. The camera angle is tilted to the side of his face, which in turn screws with the POV, and makes the eye look, well, smaller than it usually is, making your pixel line all screwed up.
4. When the eye's pixel scaling is messed up because of the POV, the distance to the eye is also messed up. Due to the POV not being to the side and instead at a 45 degree angle, the distance between the spike and the eye seems larger/smaller, can't be bothered to figure out which one rn.

Is there a way to fix these issues? Using angzing might help figure out the distance between spike and face but the only really good point of reference on scan is the eyeball

The suggested way to measure the distance that Floxy gave would go around the problem if it works better

I'd probably go with half of head width + half of projectile width instead.

Okay this is an eye sore to read, sorry, but I'll give you some things I noticed at a quick glance.

Yeah sorry about that. I had planned to fix the formatting to make it more readable but I got distracted doing stuff for street fighter

2. Considering he's walking, why are we using the distance between them?
3. Did you just calculate acceleration (m/s^2) and then minus that from speed (m/s)? They are different types of physical quantities, you can't just do that.

These problems only matter with the deacceleration endm which isn't valid anyways since it isn't how PB works

 

[Floxy178]

1. In the panel where PB is in front of his face he has a relaxed expression
2. The next panel we see his eyes contract in reaction to the PB, clearly showing how it was unexpected
3. Every other time he dodges PB at a similar distance he is completely relaxed and casual; heavily implying the first PB dodge has a difference to the others

That just means... He hasn't perceived it yet? Not that "zero time has passed since his eyes opened".

Like if you're gonna say it CANNOT be the high-end you have to at least give better evidence for him opening his eyes sooner because just the sheer possibility it happend off panel. You could imply this same happened-in-between-panels logic with every comic/manga feat ever

You don't have evidence for your claim either, do you? Like I said before we just see his eyes but it's not a proof of him opening his eyes at that time by itself. Both are a possibility except yours is a bigger assumption that needs better evidence.

 

[Vzearr]

These problems only matter with the deacceleration endm which isn't valid anyways since it isn't how PB works

I see, I must have misunderstood, apologies.

Is there a way to fix these issues? Using angzing might help figure out the distance between spike and face but the only really good point of reference on scan is the eyeball

Actually I have a way, but it might be a bit complex innit.

 

[Lilybitdun]

That just means... He hasn't perceived it yet? Not that "zero time has passed since his eyes opened".

He literally can't have only just perceived it considering how he can react to PB point blank (perception speed always above reaction speed since that's how the body works), unless you are saying he literally opened his eyes nanoseconds before shown on panel which literally changes nothing and is nitpicky for no reason.

You don't have evidence for your claim either, do you? Like I said before we just see his eyes but it's not a proof of him opening his eyes at that time by itself. Both are a possibility except yours is a bigger assumption that needs better evidence.

I'm sorry but this is silly. I gave you evidence for the higher end and then you just dismiss it as non-existent since that's the only way you have to make the middle and high end reasonings be on even ground. This argument is clearly going nowhere

Is your vote on ELJoaki's calc but with different movement for Kenjaku?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Actually I have a way, but it might be a bit complex innit.

Whenever you have the time to tell us the method vegeta

 

[Floxy178]

He literally can't have only just perceived it considering how he can react to PB point blank (perception speed always above reaction speed since that's how the body works)

Then we should just take that feat and find perception speed.

unless you are saying he literally opened his eyes nanoseconds before shown on panel which literally changes nothing and is nitpicky for no reason.

That was just an example on why lowest end being invalid ≠ highest being valid.

Is your vote on ELJoaki's calc but with different movement for Kenjaku?

Yeah I'd prefer different movement.

 

[Vzearr]

vegeta

I don't get it.

Anyways.

You know how cones of a certain height and radius have the same length as cones with the same height and radius (no shit sherlock). Scaling the size of the cone (like you've done) and then comparing it to a drawing of a cone and assuming it has the same height, and then scaling the cone in this image to find the amount of length the cone is inside of the image is and using that other drawing of a cone image find out what the width of the cone would be at a certain point of the cone inside the Kenjaku image. Once you find the width of cone in the drawing where the cone is in the kenjaku image, then you can angle size that to his iris or eye height and apply pythagorus to the image.

Yo what I said makes perfect sense innit, but like, it might be hard to understand cause I didn't type it out well innit fam.

 

[Sammy818]

I’ve seen this one before, neither get accepted, feat gets thrown out

 

[Vzearr]

I don't get it.

Anyways.

You know how cones of a certain height and radius have the same length as cones with the same height and radius (no shit sherlock). Scaling the size of the cone (like you've done) and then comparing it to a drawing of a cone and assuming it has the same height, and then scaling the cone in this image to find the amount of length the cone is inside of the image is and using that other drawing of a cone image find out what the width of the cone would be at a certain point of the cone inside the Kenjaku image. Once you find the width of cone in the drawing where the cone is in the kenjaku image, then you can angle size that to his iris or eye height and apply pythagorus to the image.

Yo what I said makes perfect sense innit, but like, it might be hard to understand cause I didn't type it out well innit fam.

Trust me bro.

 

[Sammy818]

Nothing ever happens

 

[Lilybitdun]

Nothing ever happens

Been busy bro, I'm gonna get to it