- 31
- 9
▰▱▰▱ Debunk Post Thread Calc One Piece ▰▱▰▱
【 Debunking Luffy’s Speed When Grabbing Kizaru 】
Based on the thread created by Kachon on VSB (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kachon123/One_Piece:_Luffy_Grabs_Kizaru
), I want to refute that calculation. The value produced is indeed very high, but the method and assumptions used are full of issues, making it unfit to be used as a scaling reference.
「 Kizaru’s Movement Issue 」
First, the reason why the calculation is incorrect or inaccurate is because in terms of how Kachon calculated the distance and character movement, it tends to be rushed or arbitrary. As can be seen in his thread, he does not explain why the distance is taken from Luffy’s hand or why Kizaru’s movement is restricted to only 1 panel. When performing calculations, we need to understand how a writer or mangaka typically portrays off-panel movements or those not shown in a panel. Therefore, I will discuss this “void” using the scenes from the anime, which are, of course, more complete.
Starting with Kizaru’s movement, I will now break down Kizaru’s motion when chasing Sanji, as that is one of the main issues as to why the calculation thread is not valid or fit for use:
Kizaru’s movement is not limited to 1 panel. In the anime version, it’s shown that Kizaru makes more movements than in the manga panel Kachon used. Furthermore, in the manga panel, Kizaru is already shown to have moved from his starting point and is depicted flying in that panel. This is consistent with the anime’s portrayal. [1.1]
Next, the distance measurement. To determine Kizaru’s movement distance, using only angle measurements is not enough, because Kizaru’s position is not facing directly toward the panel. The actual distance traveled ≠ the straight line from the reader’s point of view. Perspective correction is necessary using the Pythagorean formula.
「 Kizaru’s “Light Speed” is Misunderstood 」
The second argument why the thread is invalid is because people misunderstand Kizaru when he is in his Yellow Body form — he is not literally a beam of light. [2.1] His speed is not constant at the speed of light. In fact, in several scenes or events when Kizaru wants to travel, there’s always a delay or pause to transform into his full (laser) form. In short, Kizaru in Yellow Body mode can still be intercepted or attacked without requiring faster-than-light speed.
Several past events prove this — for instance: Rayleigh vs. Kizaru, Whitebeard vs. Kizaru, and most recently Luffy vs. Kizaru. [2.2] This is also seen in other panels when Kizaru emits light particles — Kizaru’s body remains intact, which shows a transformation or activation that does not instantly equate to light speed. [2.3]
「 Contradiction with Story 」
The final point as to why the calculation thread is invalid is because the story itself repeatedly shows that Luffy and Kizaru are equal in terms of speed. This can be seen in the following link (), where Kizaru is shown easily reacting to Luffy’s attack in base form. Also, Kizaru is shown easily matching Luffy in Gear 4 (), and even in Gear 5, Kizaru and Luffy are depicted as being very equal, with no major speed gap (). Luffy also fails to catch Kizaru in laser form. [3.1]
https://gyazo.com/d8e8079dc995c7ec70a5c2f9e189c128
https://gyazo.com/149f1ed8e1b9e1956b5ea0be22df3b7d
https://gyazo.com/88f392ecd0b3b54be9e8cb94989e7a43
https://gyazo.com/2e1ffb934707cdfec9cbc30a6b5e741a
【 Conclusion 】
Based on the explanation above, the calculation can be declared invalid. First, Kizaru’s movement in the referenced scene is not shown in full, so the data used as the basis for calculation cannot be confirmed as accurate. Second, the method of determining distance using only angular size is clearly inadequate because the panel’s perspective shows Kizaru moving forward to the right.
Furthermore, Kizaru’s Yellow Body form should not be treated as a movement equivalent to light speed. This is because that form is not fully like a laser or entirely in a light mode that moves consistently at the speed of light — especially since Kizaru in his visual representation still relies on body movements like jumping and flying, which of course do not have constant speed.
Finally, the claim that Luffy moves at FTL+ up to 40 times the speed of light contradicts the story. With such speed, Kizaru should appear extremely slow, and Luffy should easily attack or defend. However, what’s shown in the actual narrative is that top tiers in One Piece are relatively equal in terms of speed.
Therefore, this calculation essentially has the same flaws as previous ones: issues in the math and lack of alignment with how the story is portrayed.
CR: BENI
【 Debunking Luffy’s Speed When Grabbing Kizaru 】
Based on the thread created by Kachon on VSB (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kachon123/One_Piece:_Luffy_Grabs_Kizaru
), I want to refute that calculation. The value produced is indeed very high, but the method and assumptions used are full of issues, making it unfit to be used as a scaling reference.
「 Kizaru’s Movement Issue 」
First, the reason why the calculation is incorrect or inaccurate is because in terms of how Kachon calculated the distance and character movement, it tends to be rushed or arbitrary. As can be seen in his thread, he does not explain why the distance is taken from Luffy’s hand or why Kizaru’s movement is restricted to only 1 panel. When performing calculations, we need to understand how a writer or mangaka typically portrays off-panel movements or those not shown in a panel. Therefore, I will discuss this “void” using the scenes from the anime, which are, of course, more complete.
Starting with Kizaru’s movement, I will now break down Kizaru’s motion when chasing Sanji, as that is one of the main issues as to why the calculation thread is not valid or fit for use:
Kizaru’s movement is not limited to 1 panel. In the anime version, it’s shown that Kizaru makes more movements than in the manga panel Kachon used. Furthermore, in the manga panel, Kizaru is already shown to have moved from his starting point and is depicted flying in that panel. This is consistent with the anime’s portrayal. [1.1]
Next, the distance measurement. To determine Kizaru’s movement distance, using only angle measurements is not enough, because Kizaru’s position is not facing directly toward the panel. The actual distance traveled ≠ the straight line from the reader’s point of view. Perspective correction is necessary using the Pythagorean formula.
「 Kizaru’s “Light Speed” is Misunderstood 」
The second argument why the thread is invalid is because people misunderstand Kizaru when he is in his Yellow Body form — he is not literally a beam of light. [2.1] His speed is not constant at the speed of light. In fact, in several scenes or events when Kizaru wants to travel, there’s always a delay or pause to transform into his full (laser) form. In short, Kizaru in Yellow Body mode can still be intercepted or attacked without requiring faster-than-light speed.
Several past events prove this — for instance: Rayleigh vs. Kizaru, Whitebeard vs. Kizaru, and most recently Luffy vs. Kizaru. [2.2] This is also seen in other panels when Kizaru emits light particles — Kizaru’s body remains intact, which shows a transformation or activation that does not instantly equate to light speed. [2.3]
「 Contradiction with Story 」
The final point as to why the calculation thread is invalid is because the story itself repeatedly shows that Luffy and Kizaru are equal in terms of speed. This can be seen in the following link (), where Kizaru is shown easily reacting to Luffy’s attack in base form. Also, Kizaru is shown easily matching Luffy in Gear 4 (), and even in Gear 5, Kizaru and Luffy are depicted as being very equal, with no major speed gap (). Luffy also fails to catch Kizaru in laser form. [3.1]
https://gyazo.com/d8e8079dc995c7ec70a5c2f9e189c128
https://gyazo.com/149f1ed8e1b9e1956b5ea0be22df3b7d
https://gyazo.com/88f392ecd0b3b54be9e8cb94989e7a43
https://gyazo.com/2e1ffb934707cdfec9cbc30a6b5e741a
【 Conclusion 】
Based on the explanation above, the calculation can be declared invalid. First, Kizaru’s movement in the referenced scene is not shown in full, so the data used as the basis for calculation cannot be confirmed as accurate. Second, the method of determining distance using only angular size is clearly inadequate because the panel’s perspective shows Kizaru moving forward to the right.
Furthermore, Kizaru’s Yellow Body form should not be treated as a movement equivalent to light speed. This is because that form is not fully like a laser or entirely in a light mode that moves consistently at the speed of light — especially since Kizaru in his visual representation still relies on body movements like jumping and flying, which of course do not have constant speed.
Finally, the claim that Luffy moves at FTL+ up to 40 times the speed of light contradicts the story. With such speed, Kizaru should appear extremely slow, and Luffy should easily attack or defend. However, what’s shown in the actual narrative is that top tiers in One Piece are relatively equal in terms of speed.
Therefore, this calculation essentially has the same flaws as previous ones: issues in the math and lack of alignment with how the story is portrayed.
CR: BENI
Last edited:
