Killua dart fish feat's problem

[ReverseCross]

According to Izunavi in Chapter 83 of the manga, the power of a technique depends on the user's base power, motivation, and the conditions they impose. Therefore, for example, when Uvogin enhances his arm with Nen, it becomes at least twice as powerful as it would normally be. From this, we can infer that even basic Nen techniques are capable of surpassing natural human physical capabilities and conventional weapons, allowing them to produce results that are both stronger and faster than ordinary weaponry. Indeed, the examples presented throughout the series consistently support this conclusion. If you are wondering how this relates to Chapter 240 of Hunter × Hunter, my objection is primarily directed at the use of assumptions when calculating the capabilities of techniques whose power, speed, and operational conditions have never been clearly explained within the series. For instance, the "faster than light" statement associated with Ortho Twins' ability in Chapter 240 was never thoroughly explained in the manga, and its intended meaning has been debated extensively for years. Despite these discussions, no definitive conclusion has ever been reached regarding what the statement actually means or where it should be placed in terms of scaling. As for the way this wiki evaluates the feat, the core issue is that the speed of the Fish Dart is completely unknown, yet the calculation uses the throwing speed of professional dart players as its reference point. However, as mentioned earlier, Izunavi's explanation demonstrates that Nen abilities can significantly amplify a user's physical capabilities, in some cases by at least a factor of two. In other words, my objection is directed at the assumption itself. This ability was carefully designed with specific conditions and restrictions, and it was created by a Chimera Ant. Given these circumstances, reducing its speed to that of an ordinary professionally thrown dart without any supporting evidence does not seem reasonable to me. Therefore, when the technique's actual speed has never been specified, the analysis should take the mechanics of Nen and the established principles of the series into account rather than defaulting to the lowest real-world comparison available. My proposal is that a more rational and objective approach would be to classify this feat in Killua's speed explanation as "Unknown." The true speed of the technique has never been explicitly stated within the series, and the current calculation relies heavily on low-end assumptions. As a result, classifying the feat as "Unknown" would be more consistent and methodologically sound than assigning it a specific value that has not been conclusively established.

Agree:

Disagree: duedate8898

Neutral:

 

[ReverseCross]

I would also like to point out that there are better alternative methods for calculating this feat. In other words, rather than estimating the dart's speed, we are estimating the time it takes for the dart to reach its target. However, when comparing the currently available calculations, I believe that assigning it as "Unknown" is the most appropriate option for this wiki.

 

[ReverseCross]

Bump

 

[ReverseCross]

Bump

 

[AguilaR202]

A dart has to have a set speed to maintain flight path let alone penetrate beyond a certain point, the calc doesn’t have any issues at all glance if it uses real life dart speeds.

 

[ReverseCross]

A dart has to have a set speed to maintain flight path let alone penetrate beyond a certain point

Speeds listed as "Unknown" do not mean that the object in question has no speed. I think you may have missed the context. The issue here is not whether the dart has a speed, but whether its speed can be calculated reliably.

uses real life dart speeds

The reason for this is that, in the case of objects created through Nen, any result would largely rely on low-certainty assumptions and inferences, as is the case with this calculation.

 

[ReverseCross]

According to Izunavi in Chapter 83 of the manga, the power of a technique depends on the user's base power, motivation, and the conditions they impose. Therefore, for example, when Uvogin enhances his arm with Nen, it becomes at least twice as powerful as it would normally be. From this, we can infer that even basic Nen techniques are capable of surpassing natural human physical capabilities and conventional weapons, allowing them to produce results that are both stronger and faster than ordinary weaponry. Indeed, the examples presented throughout the series consistently support this conclusion.

I would appreciate it if you could read this carefully before responding.

 

[Duedate8898]

I believe you're misunderstanding what the calc serves as, which is a floor for the speed required for Killua to have performed the feat. The fact that the dart is possibly of higher value matters little because we have sufficient enough reason to believe it was of at least the speed of a normal dart throw. This is because the Chimera Ants general super human stats.

We will generally deem a feat as unknown or incalcable if we're unable to provide even a floor for it.

With that all said, I reject this CRT.

 

[ReverseCross]

The Fish Dart was not an ordinary dart thrown through physical muscle power. Furthermore, the dart thrown by the Ortho Twins and the darts that physically struck Killua are not the same thing. The dart that pierced Killua was powerful enough to overcome his durability, which supports the idea that it could have been extremely powerful and fast. However, that does not mean it should be treated the way the calculation assumes. Therefore, this once again supports Izunavi's statement. People who are not sufficiently familiar with the series should refrain from adding irrelevant comments and creating unnecessary wordiness. So far, none of the counterarguments presented here have been meaningful.

We will generally deem a feat as unknown or incalcabl

As for you, this is exactly what the entire discussion was meant to address from the very beginning.

 

[Duedate8898]

@ReverseCross Members of the community should generally refrain from making inflammatory and insulting remarks to other members. I would recommend you remember that, especially when talking with one of the people whose job is to moderate and approve your thread.

It's not up to you decided how meaningful a counterargument is, your job as OP is to find further support for what you wish to propose if your OP is rejected.

To shorten my reason, in case it isn't clear to you, we have a solid enough floor through the basis for the entire conjuration ability centering around using a game of darts as the medium for the technique to work. And the fact the technique is following tournament rules, makes the professional dart thrower speed a reliable enough assumption without any other alternatives.

Unless you see something else wrong with the calc which you wish to share, you still have yet to make me think it more reliable to deem the entire feat as unknown over its current calculated speed.

 

[ReverseCross]

@ReverseCross Members of the community should generally refrain from making inflammatory and insulting remarks to other members. I would recommend you remember that, especially when talking with one of the people whose job is to moderate and approve your thread.

It's not up to you decided how meaningful a counterargument is, your job as OP is to find further support for what you wish to propose if your OP is rejected.

To shorten my reason, in case it isn't clear to you, we have a solid enough floor through the basis for the entire conjuration ability centering around using a game of darts as the medium for the technique to work. And the fact the technique is following tournament rules, makes the professional dart thrower speed a reliable enough assumption without any other alternatives.

Unless you see something else wrong with the calc which you wish to share, you still have yet to make me think it more reliable to deem the entire feat as unknown over its current calculated speed.

I would also like to ask you to compare regular darts that hit a standard dartboard with the fish-shaped darts created through Nen once again, taking Izunavi's explanations into account. Because, fundamentally, the two are clearly different things. Furthermore, I can certainly decide for myself how correct or incorrect your arguments are, and I can even disagree with them without violating proper debate etiquette, which is exactly what I have been doing this entire time. Yet you are accusing me of provoking you. Nevertheless, I still respect your opinions. After all, this is the topic of the discussion that I started. Frankly, it would not be well received if someone who is not familiar with the series, or has never watched it at all, were to misrepresent the subject here.

 

[Arkenis]

The true speed of the technique has never been explicitly stated within the series, and the current calculation relies heavily on low-end assumptions. As a result, classifying the feat as "Unknown" would be more consistent and methodologically sound than assigning it a specific value that has not been conclusively established.

We don't need a "true speed" or conclusively established value when doing calcs. Plenty of calcs use low ends and derived numbers from other methods or sources.

Yet you are accusing me of provoking you. Nevertheless, I still respect your opinions. After all, this is the topic of the discussion that I started. Frankly, it would not be well received if someone who is not familiar with the series, or has never watched it at all, were to misrepresent the subject here.

Some stuff can be provoking without you intending. It seems you're using a translator so no fault on you.

 

[ReverseCross]

I do not believe that an object created through Nen can be reduced to such a low level, whether it is being treated as a low-ball or an high-ball, and I still have not changed my stance on that. Therefore, from this point onward, I will only be concerned with whether the moderators agree with this view or not. Have a good day.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Hunter x Hunter is severely outdated and is goign to suffer a massive overhaul once me and the supporters have the time, this CRT is not necessary atm.

 

[ReverseCross]

Special pleading.. I see.