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Kirby vs. Joker (Ren Amamiya)

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That's air manip in the same way crying and sweating are water manip. Kirby's inhale is superhuman, that's why he has air manip.

I would also argue in the future that that ability is Spatial Manipulation too given its animation in games like Return to Dream Land and how it shrinks targets, but nothing to say here and now.
 
The real cal howard said:
If I swing a baseball bat in front of you and you feel the breeze, is that manipulating air? Because what Kirby does is much closer to that than dropping a hurricane on you. If this were Tornado or Wing Kirby, I'd give that to you, but not base.
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Did you never have a 5th grade physics class or are you actually that dumb? I am in genuine disbelief.

Yes, it's manipulating air. All Might's wind pressure shots are literally exactly that, just on a massively larger scale.

Wind is the movement of air particles. That movement carries force. Inward or outward, the nature of said force is the same regardless of the direction it moves in. An invulnerability to wind is an invulnerability to the forces carried by moving air. So yes, Joker absolutely nullifies Kirby's inhale with Null Wind.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
@Milly
Then don't use stuff that hasn't been revised yet? If it's not on the profile, don't use it, wait for it to be added.
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It's been accepted on the most recent CRT. For all intents and purposes, it's valid.
 
Eficiente said:
-various snips-
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Please read through the thread before making arguments based on things that have already been cleared up.

As for what moves Joker will use, how many times does it have to be stated that Joker's in-character moves can only be discerned through his personality and intelligence? Ren has almost everything he can do available all the time, and there hasn't been any non-player-controlled combat in the game. This is literally how we've always done things with RPG characters. Stop calling it suspicious unless you have better standards to propose, and even then, make a CRT out of it.
 
It is suspicious how you missed the point too, all of the above was acknowledged, just saying that is kinda pointless. We already know his moves can only be discerned through his personality and intelligence, hence the "even if he's more likely to use some moves more than others that doesn't mean that he will use them the most amount of times to the point of making the others ignorable". The latter is a headcanon and that's not how we use RPG characters, if you couldn't tell then "that's how we do things" is just a dogmatic excuse for users to keep f*cking up anyway.
 
If you've accepted that Ren's intelligence is what decides his moves, then you should also remember that I've already explained how he'd come to the conclusions he does. In the context of this match, as long as he can react to it, he can deal with it.

- Suction isn't instant, and switching to a Null Wind Persona is nigh-instant. The moment he's lifted off the ground, Ren's going to nope that with Null Wind.

- As soon he sees a large number of enemies being summoned by Kirby, he's going to use AOEs. After he realizes his regular offense doesn't work because Kirby and his allies are too durable, he's going to use his AOE death/info manip and proceed to one-shot/incap all of them at once.

- Even if Kirby's allies can hit as hard as Kirby himself, Null/Absorb/Repel Phys is established to work up to Low 2-C, and magical attacks get reflected by Makarakarn.

- The only threats to Joker are the Friend Hearts, but he can just dodge them, or blow them away with omnidirectional AOEs if there's too many of them. Even if they're non-physical, Joker has NPI anyway.

- Joker's not going to risk getting hit if he can avoid it, and he has a plethora of ways to do so. He has instinctive knowledge of nigh-instant zero-cost methods of reacting to and no-selling a Warp Star charge, that being Third Eye and switching to a Persona with Null/Absorb/Repel Phys, so what reason would he have to NOT do it? Even someone with average intelligence can figure this out, much less a genius like Ren.

TL;DR Joker still wins via effortlessly nullifying Inhale and Warp Star, as well as incapping/killing Kirby and his allies with an AOE death spell.
 
Honestly, I might vote Kirby FRA. Eficiente has brought up some pretty valid points, but with there being a lot, I kind of don't wanna provide the ones I concur with since it'd be an utter exhaustion to do so.

Honestly though? With the high variance in the votes and the constant back-and-forth discussions, this thread is starting to come in at an impasse and can be counted as inconclusive.
 
@Cal

Joker nullifies Inhale and Warp Star with Null Wind and Null Phys respectively, before quickly switching to Death AOEs after he realizes his regular attacks barely damage Kirby and his allies. Kirby dies, becomes a Ghost, then gets deathhaxed again because Joker's deathhax works on spiritual beings.
 
No. We have no clear mindhax feats prior to Yaldy. At least numerically speaking. If you count tanking direct attacks to the mind via Psychokinetic attacks as mindhax, then yeah, massively above baseline 4-A.
 
When did Joker death hax ghosts?

And again, sounds like Joker has to do a heck of a lot of things before getting tapped. You're making him out to be pragmatic as humanly possible before he gets tapped.
 
But...a shadow something that's already dead. Just because they're spiritual doesn't mean they're type 7 immortals.
 
I don't see how that's relevant. All disembodied souls are technically dead. Joker's death-hax works on and destroys disembodied souls, mental constructs and bodies of information. I don't see how Ghost Kirby is any different.
 
Because they're not souls.

"Shadows are the lower parts of the psyche everyone has... Suppressed human thoughts given physical form. When people are unable to face their darker selves, they break loose, free from all control. But sometimes, humans with special awareness can tame their Shadows... Those are Persona-users."

Plus I still highly doubt he'll get that off before dying. Nobody should win a match because of a single good move, especially if it s not an opener, and everything he has negating things hundreds of times his AP before endgame is still an NLF. What stops KIRBY from counterattacking when Joker goes to hit him. He can't attack while tetrakarn is up. He goes to hit Kirby, it fails, and then Kirby hits him back.
 
Solacis said:
No. We have no clear mindhax feats prior to Yaldy. At least numerically speaking. If you count tanking direct attacks to the mind via Psychokinetic attacks as mindhax, then yeah, massively above baseline 4-A.
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Er, Ailments?
 
The real cal howard said:
Because they're not souls.
"Shadows are the lower parts of the psyche everyone has... Suppressed human thoughts given physical form. When people are unable to face their darker selves, they break loose, free from all control. But sometimes, humans with special awareness can tame their Shadows... Those are Persona-users."

Plus I still highly doubt he'll get that off before dying. Nobody should win a match because of a single good move, especially if it s not an opener, and everything he has negating things hundreds of times his AP before endgame is still an NLF. What stops KIRBY from counterattacking when Joker goes to hit him. He can't attack while tetrakarn is up. He goes to hit Kirby, it fails, and then Kirby hits him back.
Click to expand...
Shadows exist within the Sea of Souls, and within the mind and souls of everyone as do Persona's. Secondly, Shadows's aren't dead.
 
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