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Kirby vs. Joker (Ren Amamiya)

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@Milly. What's stopping Kirby from breaking Joker's nullifications with attacks hundreds of times greater than a non-endgame Joker has ever had to take?
 
The real cal howard said:
@Milly. What's stopping Kirby from breaking Joker's nullifications with attacks hundreds of times greater than a non-endgame Joker has ever had to take?
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Has Kirby ever been shown to punch through any ability specifically made to counter physical attacks? You don't just unga bunga through everything. Well, at least most verses.
 
Once again, all of Persona's defensive hax, be it affinities, null/repel/drain passives, Tetra/Makarakarn, etc. ALL work up to Low 2-C because they're ALL the same spells regardless of the point in the game they are used in. This has been the case since the massive verse-wide revisions almost a whole year ago. It isn't close to NLF.

That "single good move" is his most logical choice. The moment he sees his regular attacks not doing noticeable damage, Joker is smart enough to switch to something that bypasses durability. I.e. Death-hax. It just so happens that said death-hax is the optimal solution to dealing with Kirby.

"Can't attack while Tetrakarn is up" Where are you getting this? Once it's up it stays up until it's hit. Joker can do whatever he wants while it's up.

Mind and Soul are equalized in Persona. This is one of the most basic attributes of the verse. Shadows are sentient fragments of the human mind, thus, they are also fragments of the human soul.
 
Has Kirby ever been shown to punch through any ability specifically made to counter physical attacks? You don't just unga bunga through everything. Well, at least most verses.

Okay, I guess Violet Parr can take hits from Superman because Forcefields can't be broken.
 
As said to you guys many times before, somethng that dumb needs to be in the profile. Your claims over it in vsthreads don't matter, the comment explaining it wasn't even to Cal, but to the public to vote Joker, this much was done before on my arguments because simply disagreeing with them and leaving them in peace was just too noble, no the point of view you guys hold needed to be said and over again with eloquence even tho it's not up to discussion to try to get away with clear game mechanics just like that with the profile saying nothing about it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Has Kirby ever been shown to punch through any ability specifically made to counter physical attacks? You don't just unga bunga through everything. Well, at least most verses.
Click to expand...
Okay, I guess Violet Parr can take hits from Superman because Forcefields can't be broken.

Violet has forcefields. Joker has Attack Reflection+Forcefields.
 
Eficiente said:
As said to you guys many times before, somethng that dumb needs to be in the profile. Your claims over it in vsthreads don't matter, the comment explaining it wasn't even to Cal, but to the public to vote Joker, this much was done before on my arguments because simply disagreeing with them and leaving them in peace was just too noble, no the point of view you guys hold needed to be said and over again with eloquence even tho it's not up to discussion to try to get away with clear game mechanics just like that with the profile saying nothing about it.
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See, the funny thing is it was, but was falsely downgraded, so now we have to upgrade it again.
 
Seriously, can you show me another verse period, RPG or otherwise, where the EoS stuff scales well before. I can promise you that nobody in their right mind would argue that Mystery Dungeon Pikachu at level 5 can Endure a oneshot from Goku or paralyze him with Thunder Wave because endgame Mystery Dungeon Protagonist scales to Dialga. Nor would you argue that all of Serge's stuff before endgame scales to Time Devourer. Nor would you argue that Bartz's stuff can hit higher dimensional things because his endgame self can take blows from Neo Exdeath. I can go on, but the primary point is that endgame stuff doesn't scale to non-endgame stuff in any capacity. This thread has been the only time I've seen it.
 
Has Kirby ever been shown to punch through any ability specifically made to counter physical attacks? You don't just unga bunga through everything. Well, at least most verses.
Okay, I guess Violet Parr can take hits from Superman because Forcefields can't be broken.

Violet has forcefields. Joker has Attack Reflection+Forcefields.

I'm sorry then. Makes a massive difference. Replace Violet with Happiny then.
 
I'll respond to Cal later, but tl;dr the biggest reason this isn't game mechanics is the existence of Almighty Attacks, which act as a scissors to Tetra/Makarakarn's paper.

If you lack Almighty Attacks (Resistance Negation), it won't go through. It's precisely why Yaldabaoth has Almighty Attacks, to prevent these barriers shutting him down from a logical standpoint.
 
Something tells me you misunderstood that. What do you think on hax working on the scale to the strongest characters since always on RPGs, even when the protagonists are at their weakest and only because we only see them grow on physical stats?
 
I didn't misunderstand you trying to paint these moves as Gameplay mechanics, in fact your post confirms this further.

Hax works regardless of strength. Unless there's an in universe weakness for it or higher D shenanigans. Like we've accepted always.
 
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
What's with the sarcastic comments? It's not exactly motivating to reply to this, ngl.
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Firstly, sorry for the sarcasm.

Secondly, because obvious double standards that I've never seen before for any other verse get annoying. Apparently Joker is a super pragmatic extraordinary genius who will instantly use the thing that'll get him out of the predicament instantly, despite the fact that we've stopped allowing it for characters whose series revolve around exploiting weaknesses like Zelda and Mega Man (Link and Mega Man having time rely on info analysis and weapon shuffling respectively), and even actual super geniuses like Rick Sanchez or Tony Stark aren't allowed to instantly know what's the best move to do. His forcefields and attack reflection can't be negated by sheer AP despite literally every series on this site, if it goes beyond the threshold, it breaks. And finally, all his stuff remains the same potency throughout his tiers, at the peak one, when I can't think of a single other verse that allows that. Now I ain't gonna act like I don't do my fair share of overhyping, but I'm not gonna say things like "Link w/o the Master Sword invincibility works on Low 2-Cs because it holds up against True Force Ganon and it's the same spell the entire time"
 
Also, what I said was partially a joke. I don't know how passive death hax would work against Luke.

Anyways, this thread is growing quite large. Eventually some folks are gonna have to call in the towel.
 
The real cal howard said:
Apparently Joker is a super pragmatic extraordinary genius who will instantly use the thing that'll get him out of the predicament instantly
Click to expand...
This notion is the thing most argued against by the opposition here. And I don't believe I'm wrong to think that recent voters didn't much care to check that.

Soon the other guys will be eloquent about the matter without saying anything new nor be really talking to Cal or me, and maybe new votes will arrive.
 
I didn't. Forget at all. Joker doesn't see the future and by the time he'd switch to Null Wind, it doesn't cancel momentum that Joker is already under.

And my entire other comment hasn't been addressed. Why are we assuming Joker is Dr Who levels of pragmatism?
 
It really does, the moment Null Wind is out it just stops. He isn't getting any closer whatsoever.

And actually, he is. ATLUS themselves describes Joker as someone who is always planning, but would never say a word about it. Given the fact that he's easily capable of figuring his way through complex situations on the fly, picking up skills and talents he just learned, and constantly able to think under what should be pressure breaking circumstances, yes, he is. He isn't a fool, and certainly isn't going to fall for Kirby's appearance of all things, and will take any and everything he throws out seriously.
 
It stops the wind but not the momentum, he will be sucked into Kirb by then and now Kirby has a hecking gun and is invincible.
 
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