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Kirby vs. The Ginyu Force (GRACE)

Eden_Warlock99

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With the Ginyu Force by his side, is Frieza on the verge of taking over the universe?
Gohan and Krillin are hanging by a thread, Vegeta barely standing... All hope seems lost!

But wait, what’s this?! From the distant reaches of space, a tiny, round warrior has arrived on the battlefield, it's Kirby!

Can Captain Ginyu and his squad withstand the infinite power of the pink puffball?
Or is Kirby biting off more than he can chew in the face of the universe’s most fearsome squadron?

Pre-Canvas Curse Kirby is used
Speed Equalized
Fight takes place on Namek

 
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You know, it's honestly pretty surprising that Kirby's Inhale is only around Class 1 lol
 
The weird thing about Kirby's inhale ability in the game is size did matter at the time, which I think is plot-induced stupidity rather than anything legit, but whatever. Kirby's LS is Class 1 (for Pete's sake, they even gave an LS rating to Kirby's inhale!) whereas the Ginyu Force should be at least Class M based on kid Goku's highest LS rating, so I don't think Kirby's inhale is gonna work. Even back then, Kirby fought against warriors like Meta Knight and supernatural beings like 0² and Dark Mind.

Kirby has no resistance to Time Stop, but at the same time, Guldo has never showed that he can do anything special with it. However, Guldo can incapacitate both Krillin and Gohan at once with his psychokinesis, which itself is his most powerful tactic. It would've actually been the end of Gohan and Krillin had Vegeta not intervened.

It should be noted that the Ginyu Force is a close-knit group and Frieza's greatest loyalists (even elites like Zarbon cracked under pressure). The members of the force even do silly poses and motivational cheers together.

Personally, the easiest win for the Ginyu Force is essentially a combination of Guldo's psychokinesis and Ginyu's own power, which would be a stomp in the Ginyu Force's favor if Kirby's superior skill level wasn't a factor (which might be hard to really make use of if his LS is orders of magnitude below his opponents).
 
Don't Kirby AP stomp everyone? Even Ginyu is way weaker.
The Ginyu force only wincon is Telekinesis+Change body combo.
 
Don't Kirby AP stomp everyone? Even Ginyu is way weaker.
The Ginyu force only wincon is Telekinesis+Change body combo.
Oohhh... I read Goku's AP ratings as Ronnatons, not Yottatons...!

Shit! I take everything back!
 
Should have known that it was too perfect to be true.
Well, at least the scouters would tell them just how outmatched they are.
 
eNnUrmb.png
 
Woof! Well, back to this again. With the closing of the gaps to fairer levels... Hmm...

So the scaling kinda goes off-kilter there. Generally we don't treat power levels as linear, which makes sense because until Frieza's final form, power levels aren't 1-to-1. Yet at the same time, the scaling page is pretty screwy about it.

See, Nappa's power level is 4,000, which would go up to 40,000 with the Oozaru transformation. That in on itself translates to >1.8 ronnatons. Yet, Goku, whose power level is predicted to be 60,000 by Ginyu (it actually winds up being 90,000) is also >1.8 ronnatons. Yet at the same time, Vegeta, whose power level is 18,000, transforms into an Oozaru, which in turn increases his battle power to 180,000... Which is the same level Goku reached when using a basic Kaio-ken in front of Ginyu... That rating equated to >3.6 ronnatons, and... Well, the Kaio-ken boost noticeably freaked Ginyu out.

While the power level ratings and the AP scaling page are hardly comfortable ratings, Kirby's AP rating sits at a comfortable 4.63 ronnatons, which is far above the 3.6-ronnaton rating that Ginyu is freaked out over.

But I don't think this entirely quashes the Ginyu force. This should once again make the previously suggested strategy of combining Guldo's psychic hold with Ginyu's own power. This is, once again, due to Kirby's pretty lousy lifting strength rating compared to the Ginyus. However, I feel that this will have a different end result in mind. See, when Ginyu sees a body more powerful than his own, his favorite tactic is to switch bodies. Given Kirby's noticeably higher power level, Ginyu would inevitably want to try that.

I should point out that Ginyu's power is a double-edged sword. See, when Ginyu took over Goku's body, Ginyu took a harsh hit in power level, going from his own power level of 120,000 to a measly 23,000. That's pretty harsh especially when you consider the wiki translates that to somewhere between 360 and 540 yottatons. However, in Dragon Ball Super, his body-swapping tactic worked more in his favor, as after switching bodies with Tagoma, Ginyu became far stronger than Tagoma ever had been.

What makes this screwier is Ginyu's idea of battle power is raw power as opposed to how we treat power which takes into account for practically everything (AP, speed, lifting strength, and durability). This would, in turn, make it so that Kirby would gain Ginyu's lifting strength, although the body swap ability would take away Kirby's ability to inhale, and eight inches isn't exactly anything Kirby can eat since, last time I checked, a walking pink puffball isn't food.

So where would this put things? Well, the best answer for this would be Inconclusive as there are too many variables in the Ginyu Force's ideal combat strategy to reliably determine whether they'd win or lose.
 
When Kirby dies he becomes Ghost Kirby, invisible and untoucheable even to intangible guys and other people who see invisible things... and he needs to just touch someone to revive... and this process can go infinitely.

What's the answer to that?
 
When Kirby dies he becomes Ghost Kirby, invisible and untoucheable even to intangible guys and other people who see invisible things... and he needs to just touch someone to revive... and this process can go infinitely.

What's the answer to that?
Kirby doesn't have that in this key.
 
Incon FRA, but I will note I think Ginyu Force's in-character likelihood to take this match seriously are being overestimated
 
Personally, the easiest win for the Ginyu Force is essentially a combination of Guldo's psychokinesis and Ginyu's own power, which would be a stomp in the Ginyu Force's favor if Kirby's superior skill level wasn't a factor (which might be hard to really make use of if his LS is orders of magnitude below his opponents).
Don't Kirby AP stomp everyone? Even Ginyu is way weaker.
The Ginyu force only wincon is Telekinesis+Change body combo.

Late as hell, but people gotta stop using this as a wincon

  1. They have never done this in-character
  2. Ginyu only uses his Body Change in desperate situations, and there's no way Guldo of all people would be alive if the team was getting THAT pressured
  3. Guldo's psychokinesis usually doesn't have reliable LS for this technique to even work in most situations

The most important part of all team pages is how the team actually operates with each other. I don't know why people are still pushing this headcanon that the Ginyu + Guldo freeze and body change technique is something they'd ever do....or would even get the chance to given how fodder Guldo is in any matchup where the Ginyu Force even stand a chance of winning (since that certainly implies that whoever they're up against one-taps Guldo). The Ginyu Force only act as a team in very limited ways...they'll literally play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights first even for a mission as important as securing the Namekian Dragon Balls and eliminating those in Freeza's way. At best, they attack opponents in pairs of two

I genuinely think this is enough to justify a reset of the votes because people are overblowing how effective they are as a team
 
The Ginyu Force only act as a team in very limited ways...they'll literally play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights first even for a mission as important as securing the Namekian Dragon Balls and eliminating those in Freeza's way.
Tbf you have to take into account that there, they were fighting lads nowhere near their power (With the exception of Guldo but he got a bag of tricks, so). In this one, their scouters are going to give them a PL reading in the hundred thousands or so, if not just straight up explode, so don't think it's fair to say they won't take this one seriously.

The Guldo psychokinesis being unreliable also ain't going to matter much when they're going up against someone with LS worse than Kid Goku I think
 
Tbf you have to take into account that there, they were fighting lads nowhere near their power (With the exception of Guldo but he got a bag of tricks, so). In this one, their scouters are going to give them a PL reading in the hundred thousands or so, if not just straight up explode, so don't think it's fair to say they won't take this one seriously.

The Guldo psychokinesis being unreliable also ain't going to matter much when they're going up against someone with LS worse than Kid Goku I think

Even when they do take situations seriously, they still play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights who, bet fights on candy, prioritize fighting pose coordination, and like I keep mentioning, never actually attack as a full team... I think the bigger problem is people assuming they're gonna ""lock in"" and do some stuff they never actually do in combat

Guldo's still got Unknown LS on his profile so that's gotta be fixed keep in mind if people are gonna make any arguments for that being effective here

But even if we assume it's effective against Kirby, there's not a single instance in-character where the team uses the freezing in combination with the body change. The fact that people think they would go for that has still yet to be proven and there's nothing supporting the idea that why would go with that. Hell, Jeice was RIGHT THERE when Ginyu was going to do the body change and he didn't do crap to ensure the body change would be a success against Goku, so why should we assume Guldo or the others would do anything to keep Kirby down for a successful body change?

It's honestly just people potential man'ing the capabilities of the Ginyu Force. They ain't ever gonna do the freeze + body change in-character

I'd also hesitate to say Guldo's got a "bag of tricks"...bro's got ONE attack and it's ineffective if he can't harm the person he's using it against
 
Even when they do take situations seriously, they still play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights who, bet fights on candy, prioritize fighting pose coordination, and like I keep mentioning, never actually attack as a full team... I think the bigger problem is people assuming they're gonna ""lock in"" and do some stuff they never actually do in combat
Correct if I'm wrong, but they only realized they were at a power disadvantage against Goku after he one-shot Recoome, no? And immediately afterwards both Jeice and Burter jumped him? Like just because they never got the chance to attack as a full team in the show doesn't mean they'll never do so in any circumstance.

Especially since in this scenario Kirby has a higher PL than the Kaioken Goku that immediately made Ginyu use his body change, there's no universe where they see that and go "You know what? Recoome you got this."
 
Correct if I'm wrong, but they only realized they were at a power disadvantage against Goku after he one-shot Recoome, no? And immediately afterwards both Jeice and Burter jumped him? Like just because they never got the chance to attack as a full team in the show doesn't mean they'll never do so in any circumstance.

Especially since in this scenario Kirby has a higher PL than the Kaioken Goku that immediately made Ginyu use his body change, there's no universe where they see that and go "You know what? Recoome you got this."

I never said they wouldn't do it. More so that they really aren't as coordinated and skilled at mixing their techniques/attacks together like most people in the thread think they are

Also, that's incorrect. Jeice and Burter still thought they had a chance against Goku even after Recoome had been one-shot. It was after Burter got beaten when Jeice ran to find Ginyu

What I'm saying is that if Kirby's PL is that much of a threat, Ginyu's not gonna go "GULDO!!!! FREEZE THIS GUY NOW!!!". He's just gonna do the standard "injure himself and change bodies" trick. Nothing crazy
 
It's also worth noting that the Ginyu Force hadn't dealt with ANYONE around or above their level before. When Ginyu scans Goku, his first thought is that the guy must be a gifted mutant rather than a legitimately skilled fighter who earned his strength. Ginyu and Jeice also mentioned how besides Freeza, no one else should be stronger than the Ginyu Force

For most of their careers, they've been dealing enemies who were quite frankly beyond easy to deal with. Given that tidbit and the lack of actual coordination, I think people don't fully realize how much of a disadvantage they've got here. Especially if Kirby just starts the battle with an inhale
 
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His inhale is only Class 1, unless Guldo's LS is that of a regular human, I don't think it's going to work on any of the Ginyu Force.
About that, it's arguably worse

I legit think Guldo's effectiveness is being overplayed here because until the guy gets revisions, his LS capabilities are questionable at best here, as is a lot of Dragon Ball LS if I'm being honest

Also, NGL I'm having trouble believing Pre-CC Kirby peaks at Class 1. Actually, based on some of the feats they're listing, he should be higher (and there's already some other Pre-CC feats I can recall that would put him much higher, but that's a whole other convo altogether)
 
I legit think Guldo's effectiveness is being overplayed here because until the guy gets revisions, his LS capabilities are questionable at best here, as is a lot of Dragon Ball LS if I'm being honest

Actually, for that matter, none of the Ginyu Force have LS ratings. They're all at Unknown
 
Actually, for that matter, none of the Ginyu Force have LS ratings. They're all at Unknown
Well you're not gonna seriously argue that the Ginyu Force can't lift more than "bullets sting" Kid Goku anyways
 
Well you're not gonna seriously argue that the Ginyu Force can't lift more than "bullets sting" Kid Goku anyways
Sure, but the profiles are still gonna need updates if we're gonna make that the case. That's kinda just how things work on the wiki/forum for matches. As the profiles stand now? The Ginyu Force would get cooked up by Class 1 inhale

Also, the bullets stinging have nothing to do with LS. AP and LS aren't linear
 
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