Lagiacrus vs Pikachu

[Numbersguy]

Well, can the beast from the sea win this battle?

Lagiacrus

What happens when you mix a taser with a dinosaur?, you get this monstruosity.

Pikachu

They fight on a beach

Pikachu is well trained

Bloodlusted

 

[Notadeadguy]

Pikachu.

Water types are weak against electricity

 

[WarriorWare]

Not if it's also Electric-type.

Edit: I feel obligated to say that Pika blitzes since the guy's been at least FTE since season 1, and if Pika has Lightning Rod, lol@those Thunder Balls. Otherwise...hm. This could actually be pretty close. I'm not very certain.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Well, Pikachu is in a higher tier it looks like. His speed is listed as unknown, but his AP and Durability are both higher, on op of the fact that Pikachu has an expansive movepool that can counteract Lagiacrus if he's viewed as a Water/Electric type, like Grass Knot, which gains power the heavier Pika's opponent is.

Lagiacrus' profile says he's weak to Fire, which isn't a valid weakness against Pika unless it's a Hidden Power Fire Pikachu.


All in all, with all of the factors that I've taken into consideration/seen, Pikachu wins with med-high difficulty

 

[Lasatar]

Lagiacrus easily. He's strong against electricity, which would probably just help him charge up, and has powerful physical attacks. If all else failed, he could swim underwater where Pikachu couldn't get to him and spam ranged attacks. Pikachu may be an electric type itself, but in Pokèmon, a type versing its own element has neutral resistance, which means Pikachu would die, eventually.

 

[WarriorWare]

Not if the Pikachu has Lightning Rod. That said, both creatures know non-electric attacks.

 

[Notadeadguy]

The only move I can see effective now is Quick attack

... Changing my vote to Lagiacrus

 

[Lasatar]

Basically anyone who's played 3rd gen Monster Hunter will know that Lagiacrus will win; he shows up in one of the early quests and DESTROYS you. On the other hand, Pikachu is actually pretty pathetic in the games, being one of the weaker pokèmon, and I'm not sure wether the anime is canon or not.

Lagiacrus is undefeatable underwater by most non elder dragon monsters in the series, and gets slightly sloppy on land, but if Lagiacrus' profile includes Ivory Lagiacrus, then Pikachu will get obliderated before he knows what hit him; Pikachu can make a lightning bolt electrocute a whole machine (which conducts electricity), while Ivory Lagiacrus can turn the entire ground into a killzone (and the ground doesn't).

Even if we don't use Ivory, if we use X's version, we have a Lagiacrus that can manipulate electricity so well, that it can send out controllable electric spires, create electric fences that block off parts of the area, call down lightning bolts, and so on. I would say only White Fatalis and maybe Kirin match its control over Electricity.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Don't we have to ignore LightningRod due to Game Mechanics? Because if not, than Pikachu can absorb electric attacks of any intensity and powerup his non physical offense, which includes Disarming Voice, Hidden Power, etc. If an opponent's primary form of offense is absorbed via hax, isn't this a kind of mismatch? I'm new here, so I wouldn't know lol.

Either way, I'm having a hard time seeing Pikachu losing this unless Lagiacrus leaps into the air and body slams Pikachu. If Pikachu can abosrb electric attacks and uses it's decent sized movepool to it's complete extent, then Pikachu has Toxic, Protect, Light Screen and Reflect to bolster defenses, and Agility to increase speed to outpace Lagiacrus, then unless I'm mistaking the rules of this matchup to some extent, Pikachu wins with mid-high difficulty imo.


Regardless of whether Pikachu wins or losses in the end, I'll just be happy to see something new on his profile lol

 

[Lasatar]

Lagiacrus takes zero damage from thunder in the game itself, and has hard scales that take green sharpness in low rank, blue in high rank, and some parts of its body require purple in G-rank. I don't think that Pikachu's soft hide and puny claws are enough to crack that in any shape or form with physical attacks. Lagiacrus has powerful physical attacks, such as wrapping itself around to crush its opponent, powerful body slams, and strong jaws. I believe that arcording to the game series, the only more powerful sea dwelling life is the Elder dragon Ceadeus and its elder form, and a rare breed of guess what? Lagiacrus, if Abyssal Lagiacrus is involved in this fight, Pikachu gets blitzed over many times before it can quick attack (well, it won't be over that fast, but the power difference is massive).

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Well if both parties are unable to be damaged by electricty, then it's all about their other capabilities. I'm not very familiar with MH, but based off the Profile's used in this particular thread, I see Pikachu having an advantage. My main problem with this matchup is the lack of speed information on Pikachu. If Pikachu had equal speed to Lagiacrus, than Lagiacrus wins by sheer durability alone unless Pikachu manages to poison it with Toxic and than use various defensive/evasive techniques to avoid it.

Since this is a basic Lagiacrus, and not some rare, even more powerful breed, Pikachu might have an advantage with Grass Knot, which deals more and more damage the heavier the opponent is. And with any possible non-physical offense boosts from LightningRod, that's going to be a problem for Lagiacrus as far as I know.

If we delved closer into an in-game aspect and gave Pikachu a limited repitoire of moves to use, this would be much simpler to decide. But if Pikachu has Agility for speed increases, Light Screen/Reflect for extended defense increases, Toxic to inflict increasing poisonous damage to even a small part of Lagiacrus' body, and Grass Knot which would deal higher amounts of damage because of Lagiacrus' assumably large weight along with Quick Attack and/or ExtremeSpeed for much larger short term bursts of speed for defensive/evasive purposes, Pikachu seems to take this one, especially if you give Pikachu access to a Fire type Hidden Power, which Lagiacrus seems to be weak against


Only way I can see a standard Lagiacrus winning is if Pikachu falls in the water where LAgiacrus has a monumental advantage or if Lagiacrus could somehow transform into the alternate form/breed/species of Lagiacrus.

 

[Lasatar]

Poison won't affect Lagia too much, Poison is an aliment in MH, and if Pikachu were to use it, Lagia would maybe lose 2% of its health over time until it wears off (monsters in MH have A LOT of health), and each time it's poisoned, it gains greater resistance to poison, requiring a more powerful poison attack or just more poison attacks (within a small space of time) in general. By the time Lagia is down to half health (assuming Pikachu can poison it that much), Lagiacrus' resistance will be so great, it probably won't be poisoned anymore at all.

You are arguing that this is a regular Lagiacrus, so I could argue that this is a regular Pikachu (you know, the ultra weak pokemon in the forest, and not the much more powerful Ash's Pikachu from the anime). Since All the breeds of Lagiacrus are technically the same species, why couldn't it be Ivory or Abyssal (For the Fatalis page, it refers to all three Fatalis and shoves their moves into one package, since the different variants are simply it at a different stage of its life, Lagiacrus might be the same).

 

[JiroUchiha9]

But the OP specifically stated that it was a well trained Pikachu, much like Red's, Ash's and so on, so I'm really not seeing what you're getting at. Pikachu's profile, the one used in this particular battle, refers to Pikachu in general, while the Lagiacrus used in this particular battle is a standard one lol. If it was this Much more powerful likely higher tiered Lagiacrus breeds, than this likely would've been locked because it would be an unfair stomp in Lagiacrus' favor, just like if you gave Pikachu a bs upgrade because it managed to damage Arceus, a Tier 2-C being, or fight the tier 7-C Latios into a draw.. This battle is a regular 8-B Lagiacrus vs. a well trained Pikachu, which is, according to the tiering on this wiki, 8-A.


Not sure if MH has anything like Toxic, but if a poison ailment with a 6% multiplier or something similar existed, the consistent multiplication would kind of plateau with the increasing resistance unless Lagiacrus has some kind of Bleach style 'one it hits me I'm immune to it' ability like Askin Naak Le Vaar. If poison in MH had a similar attack, and the Lagiacrus pictured in the OP hada growing resistanceto it, let me know and I'll drop the whole sub-argument about Toxic. Otherwise, Pikachu still has that going for him.


And that still doesn't check or counter the various other attacks i used that Pikachu could use for defensive and/or evasive reasons. It also doesn't check or counter Grass Knot, which I think makes Pikachu's already decent tier advantage and makes slightly larger because of Lagiacrus' size. In the end, it all comes down to personal prefrence, and the only way this is going to end is if multiple unbiased people weigh in, because the more I talk about, the less of a chance I'm seeing Lagiacrus having. the Toxic, the speed, defense and offense changes via it's moves, the likely large-massive damage Grass Knot would inflict, the possibility of Pikachu having Hidden Power Fire and so on is making it really hard for me to believe that Lagiacrus has any chance besides hoping that it can outlast Pikachu, which it might not if Toxic can do even a meager 2% of it's maximum stamina at timed intervals.

 

[Lasatar]

Monster Hunter is actually pretty underrated on vs battles wiki, and the more popular series' are usually pretty overrated (link at 5-C, come on). Even if this Pikachu is really powerful and can equip more than 4 attacks at the same time, Lagiacrus could just simply swim underwater and wait for Pikachu to use up all of its energy, making it helpless. Lagiacrus is Smart; much smarter than humans, as shown by its weakness to the dragon element, and will know when to retreat into safer ground. Pikachu, while it is electric, still takes damage from electric attacks and even attacks that it is strong against (it's just not very effective), and so Lagiacrus' durability and intellegence combined, can outlast Pikachu. I'm not sure how the growing resistance to poison works, but I do know that there is a poison threshold that needs to be broken in order to poison a monster. Every time it is poisoned, the threshold rises (about double each time). The buildup to the threshold will also decrease over time, so the poison attacks will have to start again. I'm not sure if Pikachu will have that many action points to use Toxic that many times (and I'm pretty sure there's no trainer feeding it items to counter that).

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Well, Water is weak to electricity.

And Pikachu has Game Mechanic hax.

 

[Lasatar]

Water is only weak to electricity in Pokemon, and Lagiacrus is both elements (mainly electricity though).

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Toxic has 10 uses in game without item increases 16-18 if you want to use the logic that a trainer will maximize the number of times a pokemon can use a move a part of it being 'well trained', so i'm sure that will do a decent amount of damage regardless of whether you use the @% threshold or the 6% multiplier or even it out to a slower 4% multiplier. And Pikachu is not affected by Electricity if it has lightningrod, because with lightning rod it redirects all electric attacks towards itself, absorbs them, and powers up it's non-physical offense, which would include Grass Knot, hich has been shown to be effective against Water based Pokemon/creatures, and even if you ignore the possibility of Lagiacrus being weak to it because of game mechanics hax, it still does a lot of damage due to LAgiacrus' weight.

A well trained Pikachu would have the same level of intelligence as it's trainer roughly, and a trainer with enough skill to 'well train' a pokemon has plenty of intelligence, and the capability of a Pokemon being able to be 'well trained' by a trainer is only magnified if it's allowed to use it's whole movepool.

And if you count Lagiacrus as an electric/Water type, primarily Electric, it would still be weak to Grass Knot, as Electric doesn't resist grass.

And if Lagiacrus tries to wade Pikachu out in the water, Pikachu can move away from the water and either use Rest to heal itself or use Dig to conceal itself when using Rest. Pikachu also has Secret Power, which when used by the water, lower's the opponent's offensive capabilities by 50%, which would only stack with the 30-48 uses of Reflect and Light Screen to bolster defenses.

If you decide to count Egg Moves, Pikachu has endure, which allows Pikachu to survive any attack with 1 HP up to 10-16 times, Wish which heals 50% of Pikachu's stamina/HP every other turn, Flail and Reversal, which deal much more damage the more damage Pikachu has taken, Tickle which, if Pikachu somehow manages to tickle Lagiacrus (LOL), lowers both offense and defense by 50% along with bide, which allows pikachu to absorb damage for 2 tunrs or 2 minutes roughly, and then retailiate by dealing twice the damage back to the attacker. YOu can also count Signal Beam, which is an attack can can cause confusion and possibly make Lagiacrus damage itself.


Another problem with this matchup is infact GAme Mechanics. In MH, you said there's a 2% continuous poison damage, while Toxic deals 6% on a multiplier, so if you balance them out to be fair to both series, Lagiacrus would take 4% on a slower multiplier. 16 Toxics, even if Lagiacrus takes damage only twice per poisoning and Pikachu has to use multiple toxics every time, equals what, 12% every time it's poisoned with 4-8 seperate poisonings roughly?

It's honestly starting to sound like Lagiacrus has to abuse the limited usages of a Pokemon's move, which, since Pikachu is well trained, Pikachu would pick up on and they'd either come to a stalemate multiple times, or Pikachu would end up winning in an all out battle with neither party fleeing to recover or stall.


But if you can counter everything I've said individually, far be it from me to disagree with Mods chocking this up to a LAgiacrus win, which I'm really having a hard time seeing.


also, on Link being 5-C, i don't see a single problem with that lol. Only issue i have is with all the lolicon magickal girls i've seen being 2-A and higher lol

 

[Lasatar]

You misinterpreted what I explained about MH poison. It doesn't do a continuous 2% damage each time, but rather continuous damage that adds up to 2% over the space of about 1 minute. That makes poison a lot less effective in this battle, since its resistance doubles each time.

K about the INT, but Lagia is still much smarter (humans have 0% res to dragon, while Lagia has about -30% or something).

Grass Knot may be sorta effective, but Lagiacrus is not THAT heavy compared to even some Pokemon. You won't see Grass Knot instakilling a Groudon or Wailord.

Lagia can heal itself as well by munching on aquatic animals such as Epioth, and Secret Power counts as a physical attack, so it won't be able to reach Lagia when it is in the water (or get through its tough scales) it also only lowers the attack by 1, not 50%.

Using Endure counts as using a move, so it won't be able to attack in the meantime, while Lagia could keep hitting it over and over again. Tickle, like Secret Power, only actually decreases them by 1, rather than 50%, also, tickle what? Lagia is covered in hard Scales. Bide might protect it for a bit, but remember that Lagia is smart. It might figure out what Pikachu is doing. Signal beam only has a 10% chance of confusing, so it likely won't work that well on Lagia, and it would likely have the same effect as a flash bomb, which basically blinds monsters for a short while making them spam random attacks in random directions (not hurt itself).

For the Toxin/Poison, see my first paragraph.

So there you have it, each point countered, with only Grass knot remaining any sort of threat at all.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

The thing about Pikachu intelligence is tht Pikachu's intelligence is completely reliant on it's trainer's intelligence, so if Pikachu's trainer has superior combat knowledge to the normal human, Pikachu's kowledge would roughly be the same, so that's a variable.

If 1 minute equals 2%, that's still something. I've seen across the wiki that Pokemon turns have been calculated at one minute each, so 2% a minute and 6% a minute on a multiplier would have to plateau out somewhere to be fair to both series. It could be 4% a minute with no multiplier due to Lagiacrus' increasing resistance, or something similar, but as long as it doesn't gain a full on immunity, even 2%+ a minute is something.

Grass Knot actually does a very large amount of damage to Groudon despite it's bulk because Grass Knot's power reaches it's pinnacle on the heaviest pokemon in the game. Also, wailord itsn't actually very heavy. It weighs roughly 8-900-ish pounds, which i'm sure is around or less than the weight of Lagiacrus. Even if it isn't, remember a move's power is doubled when used on something it's effective against, or is at least increased.

Just like Lagia can heal by eating water creatures, Pikachu can heal by using rest, or by using the beach evironment to it's advantage. since there are MH creatures in the water for LAgiacrus, what's to say there aren't Leppa berry trees to replenish the amount of times Pikachu can use a move or berries for stat increases or stamina/HP recovery. the environmental advantage has to be equalized so it's not a spite or stomp match.

Pikachu doesn't need to penetrate Lagiacrus' scales to affect it. That's like saying that Sweet Kiss won't inflict blindness/confusion because Pikachu can't kiss through Lagiacrus' scales. If Lagiacrus' scales made it immune to everything bar Hidden Power, Echoed/Disarming Voice and Signal Beam, this would be a spite/stomp mismatch because Pikachu would be pit against something it has no logical chance against.

And with Endure, as long as the Pokemon uses it, which it always does because it has 'priority/ hax that ignores speed' they won't lose. Not even Groudon's super effective Earthquake can beat Pikachu while it's using Endure.

I don't know how stat modification works in MH, but in Pokemon, one stage IS 50%. One stage increase is 50% just like a decrease, which is why two stage increase moves like Agility double speed, because they increase it by 100%. If Stat modification in MH works differently, than you'd either have to ignore stat modification mostly or equalize it to make it fair. If Pikachu uses Charm, which cuts attack in HALF, it would be unfair to have 0.50X be nerfed all the way down to 2 just because of Game Mechanics.

Again, Magcargo is made of lava twice as hot as our sun or something equally ridiculous, and you can tickle that, so I'm sure that Lagiacrus can be tickled somewhere on it's body, whether the armpit or a small gap between scales etc.

Causing Lagiacrus to spam attacks in random directions would allow Pikachu, who has a natural speed advantage, to spam as many Grass Knots as possible, which is likely Pikachu's best bet at winning because of LAgiacrus' size

 

[Lasatar]

Personally, I find that Lagiacrus isn't the best machup for Pikachu. A much better Matchup would be Pikachu vs Kirin. All well, I didn't create the topic, so I have no control over it. However, I can make a profile for Kirin later, and then we can have a proper matchup.

I'm going to stop arguing, and leave it to someone else, but My final argument is the Statistic difference: Pikachu has the advantage in speed and variety of attacks, which can counter many things, however, Pikachu is physically and statistically one of the weakest Pokèmon in the game, whereas Lagiacrus is a 5 star monster in difficulty, and 3 star monsters such as Yian Kut-Ku are comparable in power to Pokèmon such as Fletchinder. It doesn't matter how much bonus damage is done in Pikachu's favour, when the statistics are not.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

I agree, it's best not to drag on until mods try and silence us or something lol.

I second that, putting land based creatures against water based creatures is really weird because of the terrain changing the scope far too much.

For any mods that see this, my vote is firmly for Pikachu due to a combination of it's movepool variety and speed advantage.In game, Pikachu is not the strongest thing around by far unless it has it's Light Ball, but it IS listed at 8-A for a reason

 

[Lasatar]

k, looked back on the thread, and the scores are:

Lagiacrus: 2 votes

Pikachu: 2 votes.

This fight is a draw.

 

[ArcaneDust]

The hp scales are way too far appart 2600 low avg hp(according to the barrel bomb test the highest sitting at a wopping 9500 hp avg) vs 272 hp max. 712 is obsene in the pokemon world as it is the current highest max hp.

to address toxic, one turn in pokemon is calculated 1 minute, MH monsters only stay poisoned for one minute.... wears of after one turn. 16 * 6 = 96% a good amount but not worth it... 6% a turn

in addition what the heck does Bloodlusted mean? if lagia is constantly enraged lagia gets something of a buff 1.3x atk boost, 0.8x def boost, and 1.4x speed boost. pikachu gains nothing from bloodlusted other than... confusion? (taking it from the moves outrage, thrash, etc)

sound based attacks don't bother lagiacrus which is an issue (only certain monsters are botherd by loud noises and it only causes them to flinch)

confusion would act like a flash bomb for lagiacrus


issues with realtime vs turn-based chars examples:

if pikachu can only act once a minute... stomped

if accuracy is applied... Crippled

taking into account trainer would think electricy would be effective vs water creature would make pikachu's movepool useless (assuming trainer has no prior knowledge of the lagiacrus)

(not an issue of RT vs TB but an overall issue) if pikachu's trainer is there lagia will eventually attack the trainer

my vote goes to lagia due to much higher bulk and speed and atk boost from bloodlust.

but that's just my 2 cents

Edit: i only brought up HP values a habit of mine...

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Pretty sure that a Basic Lagiacrus would get rekt by Pikachu speedwise. Depending on the rendition, Pikachu could have less or more power then lagia. Even if we go with Building Level Pikachu, I say it beats Lagiacrus because there isn't much Lagia can do to hit him.

Currently siding with Pikachu.

 

[Dinoman0310]

I know this is dead, but don't know how well this is gonna work now with Lagiacrus getting a big upgrade

 

[AquaWaifu]

dude 4 move limit is pure game mecahnics.