Lavos vs Mother Eater

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How has this NOT been done yet?

Chrono vs A Higher Dimensional Entity

Lavosmon vs The Queen of Eaters

-Both are 2-A

-This is Time Devourer Lavy

-SBA

FIGHT!!!

Lavos: 0

Mother Eater: 0

Inconclusive: 4 (Fate,Cal, Executor and Kalt)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Following

 

[PaChi2]

They get on well and go to a restaurant together, then they fight over who pays the bill. It seems the bill was OVER 9000.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So.....anyone gonna vote?

 

[PaChi2]

Not yet, Im waiting for Fate ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

bump

 

[FateAlbane]

In no uncertain terms, I think TD has this one.

 

[FateAlbane]

Case in point, at 2-A TD doesn't care much about barriers between Universes. For one there's the DBT beyond the infinite timelines which shouldn't interact with any timeline at all and not only can the thing affect timelines, dimensions and parallel universes while being within it, it can also leave and enter it at will (actually even any of the split weakened Dragons who are like a complete joke compared to its power are able to freely cross dimensions that are otherwise locked in all places making travel impossible save for one spot - and even they cannot reach the DBT. SERGE can't reach the DBT until getting like Three Macguffins, one of them channeling the TD's own power and the other interacting with Dimensions, etc etc).

That means the strategy that works against DD to prevent interactions between universes is not much help against the TD.

Plus I recently got my hands on part of a translation to some guides (such as Ultimania and the Missing Piece artbook) and they reinforced what I thought was just implied in the game (though Cal did remember me of that in a previous thread): That Lavos would be capable of absorbing Serge and the Chrono Cross had it not been defeated in order to achieve an even more evolved state of being superior to TD, so it's not outside its range of absorption to absorb a "2-A, possibly High 2-A" being.

Dragon's comment in the Harle thread pointed that All Delete nearly killed Yggdrasil, so while I won't say Existence+Non Existence Erasure could outright kill Mother Eater past that massive regenerative power (as Lavos lacks a feat of killing any High-Godly regenerator), I feel safe to say that ME could get damaged pretty badly by this, which at this point Lavos does by whatever it does, like even punching or something if way weaker playable characters hitting Non-Existent stuff are anything to go by.

TD Lavos is not a part of history at all (he literally exists in a place and/or state disconnected from all history and the infinite timelines as well) so I do have my doubts about Mother Eater creating copies of it - and even then, there should be alternates to make up for that.

Reformatting is good and all, but there are ways around it, Acausal alternates being one of them, which can't be stopped from happening in this case.

Most of the other things either cancel each other out or don't make much of a difference in the long run so I believe at this point, Mother Eater is actually outhaxxed to a degree, and if the likes of Omegamon can contend with it, it shouldn't have some massive gap in AP to make up for it. And having the Dragon God and Harle's spells and then some at this point also grants it some pretty problematic spells such as forcing properties upon the foe while giving himself the opposite property and changing the entire battlefield passively to whatever suits its needs for even further boosts in Stats while reducing the enemies' own. Furthermore, shifting stats effects inflicted on it to the enemy (meaning using Break fields to try and make up for statistic gaps would be shifted to Mother Eater via Revenge making it even worse).

There's also Stamina to consider, with Mother Eater having a High while Lavos is limitless since Base.

I believe TD safely wins this by those reasons, via outlasting, attacking it until it is weakened enough and absorbing Mother Eater in the end, as it seems to have more offensive and defensive tools to stay in the fight and an Absorption powerful enough to do it. Dunno how long it takes, tho.

 

[FateAlbane]

Finally TD has a loss against Lucemon and an Inconclusive against Daemon so clearly he would win against ME to conclude his Win/Loss/Inconclusive Digiset for 2-A key. It's the logical conclusion. ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But Lavos lost to CS Lucemon. Who is weaker than ME and Daemon. ovo

Also don't forget Mother Eater can indeed summon countless Yggdrassil's.

Also we should note that Ygg let Omegamon erase her. Matter of fact, most Ygg fights end with Ygg let herself lose on purpose.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also remember that was also a weaker Ygg. While the RK's are the same throughout history. Ygg isn't. Also ME is stronger than Ygg at that. Finally, each Ygg ME can summon has High 2-A level sealing.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just count me kudos'ing Fate to be a vote.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And also don't forget Ygg has '''instantaneous regen'''.

 

[FateAlbane]

Either way it shows that Yggdrasil can be affected by said power. Plus while regen keeps you alive it does not prevent one from Tiring or receiving damage. And while Mother Eater can summon various Yggrasils, TD summoning itself from some infinite timelines and non-existence of the DBT cancels out this power - coupling that with the possibility of some TD eventually absorbing the one Mother Eater makes it actually worse, too.

Alternates are Acausal so Mother Eater would need to keep summoning who knows how many Yggs to deal with a pretty much infinite ammount of TDs coming along as well. Couple that with its stamina and what I mentioned above about being outclassed and I see TD having this in significant more scenarios.

 

[Executor_N0]

It reminds me that I need to do a blog to talk about Eaters.

 

[FateAlbane]

Also saying a 2-A being will keep instantly regenerating and noping forever the hax of another 2-A being does not fly really, since by that logic I could say "Lavos spams power null and nullifies everything Mother Eater tries to do before it has a chance to use it."

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually ME stamina should be buffed. He has Yggdrassil's Stamina in which is limitless.

 

[FateAlbane]

How so? Unless one displayed feats of having unlimited stamina, absorbing someone who had it shouldn't insta equal being limitless themselves.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Fate. Flea via hax...wait.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Fate...I never once said or implied that....I just mentioned it.....

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How so? Unless one displayed feats of having unlimited stamina, absorbing someone who had it shouldn't insta equal being limitless themselves.

Mother Eater did not absorb Ygg, it took her over with the allowance of Yggdrassil and basically became Ygg.

 

[Executor_N0]

How so? Unless one displayed feats of having unlimited stamina, absorbing someone who had it shouldn't insta equal being limitless themselves.

Yggdrasil and Mother Easter became one, it was not a simple absorption. The Eaters become one and evolve along with everything they absorb into a whole new form of existence.

 

[FateAlbane]

Again, by that reasoning even people like Yhwach would have borderline Limitless stamina since the Soul King has been sustaining Soul Society since literally forever and he absorbed it.

 

[Executor_N0]

And the Eaters as a base have unlimited stamina, any Eater race being has no concept of capacity limitation what it can do. They can do anything at any time with an infinite share of data. I really need to blog about the Eaters.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Again read Executor's comment to how the Eaters operate. This is no simple absorption.

 

[FateAlbane]

Yhwach became the Soul King, tho. And the series makes a massive deal about him gaining abilities of others via that. I'm not buying this one, frankly speaking.

But either way, TD should still win via all the other reasons. Stamina would just be the icing on the cake.

 

[Executor_N0]

Yggdrasil has infinite stamina. Mother Eater is an evolution of Yggdrasil combined with the main unit of Eaters. How can Yggdrasil be superior to its own evolution?

 

[FateAlbane]

Because by that logic I could give so many powers to so many characters right about now despite lack of feats to back it up in any way whatsoever. It's a somewhat weird way of cross-scaling.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Except technically Mother Eater has never been shown to tire. I can't help what other verses do. And as Ex explained Eaters should have Infinite Stamina by default anyway.

Anyway, I'll count your vote, but let's not forget Yggdrasil can create powerful warriors from throughout history and has face acausal (Not Lavos Acausal) opponents before. And one can argue Ygg can seal many Lavos' and the fight will go one infinitely.

Honestly, I feel that rewrite and null will counter each other. Heck, technically Mother Eater can reformat not Lavos' whole existence, but get rid of some of his abilities.

But anyway, let's not make this a rage fest for no reason. (Caught the hint of aggro from you out of nowhere tbh)

Could honestly careless if Mother Eater died. I like Lavos more anyway since he's a Dragon God. (Totally didn't make this to make Cal happy)

 

[FateAlbane]

Uh...?

 

[FateAlbane]

You know, just remove my vote.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why? You forgot something? You being a Lavos Tsundere? Did I say something wrong? Also read the edited part of my comment.

 

[Executor_N0]

That way there is not much to be done, I will launch the Eaters blog this weekend so if you need something to explain what was said, just ask.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Executor is to Digimon as Fate is to Chrono.

 

[Executor_N0]

Executor is to Digimon as Fate is to Chrono.

I'm going to see 12 hours of gameplay to do this ... it's going to be a long weekend OvO

 

[Executor_N0]

After a little thought, I believe this will end with TD being 5D in this battle OvO

 

[FateAlbane]

Just to clarify a little bit on this, the stamina point I mentioned amidst the other things wasn't that Mother Eater could possibly tire in your everyday sense of the word (as in, the sense where we run too much and get tired or something).

If that was the case I'd doubt any of the God Tiers in Digimon would be tiring anytime soon even if they had "weak" stamina listed in their profiles.

The stamina point was in regards to the chance of temporary incapacitation instead of destruction, even if for a while, as from what I've seen in Digimon CS, the ME was incapacitated for some time after the party managed to defeat it in two occasions: The first one giving Takumi/Ami enough time to enter it and go after Yuugo, the second one giving them the chance to go in its being again, now to find Suedou within.

If it's about tiring just by fighting, I'm more than ok with the notion that it's limitless. The stamina/tiring part that I mentioned was may more in regards to incapacitation after a prolonged battle (which, if you look at the end of my first comment, you will see in these parts: "attacking it until it is weakened enough and absorbing Mother Eater in the end, as it seems to have more offensive and defensive tools to stay in the fight and an Absorption powerful enough to do it. Dunno how long it takes, tho.")

/\ If I meant that Mother Eater would just naturally tire like any other being out there, I'd probably have said that TD would win relatively fast, as the effort of keeping up the battle and all the offensive and defensive hax coming along would be too much for a weaker being/something that would tire naturally.

 

[FateAlbane]

Executor is to Digimon as Fate is to Chrono.

Well, this time, rather than me saying it, I'm 99% certain that the revisions are all gone and done. I kinda already went through all the stuff I could possibly think of. Don't think there is any more content to work with the series, unless Cal wants to try and add that "possibly High 2-A" for TD's profile which, as I told him, I'm comfortable enough with the tiers as they currently are to bother.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually, to give some more things to think about.

Regarding Mother Eater incapacitation. We do have to remember that Yuugo was also there to restrict movementn and the actions of the eaters as well. The same iirc was for the second part as well. Executor can correct me on this however. (Also, iirc True Eaters are supposed to be Low 1-C as well. Just never made the file)

Now we haven't actually thought of somethings. One thing we have not addressed is the Eater's take over ability. Now we are pretty much sold on the idea that Lavosmon here is secretly the 8th Demon Lord as such becoming one with him wouldn't be the best for everyone. But we must remember that the Eater's absorption was strong enough to corrupt something like Examon and Yggdrasil. Heck, the Eaters were a threat to all Digimon due to this. Even Alphamon was extremely wary of them. So what if Mother Eater summons a whole bunch of Eaters from the Higher Dimension where they are from? What if Lavos gets the Examon treatment? What if, Lavosmon become Lavosmon Eater Mode....?(Imagine that in a Digimon X Chrono crossover)

However, reformat is still useful and so is sealing. But like you say, Lavos seems to have more offensive haxes. But I feel quality over quantity. Reformat and Sealing kind of counter a lot. But, Lavos does have Zeed levels of absorption....

Although I could honestly careless if Mother Eater died. I like Lavos more anyway since he's a Dragon God. (Totally didn't make this to make Cal happy)

The only reason I'm putting up a struggle is because Cal always give Digimon shit on threads.

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, the fact that both sides have their ways to do stuff is what makes the match viable. Could be me being biased without noticing or something, but I personally feel like Lavos wins on more scenarions on this one, considering what both have to work with.

If anyone wants to vote otherwise, I won't stop them. Now for the stuff, Yuugo was restricting them in the first match, yes, but in the second one Suedou had both fully embraced ME and also had been entirely absorbed. His objective was to end the world and create it anew as opposed to Yuugo previously.

I don't think the op 2-A summoning wins the match for either side as much as it cancels each other out at this point. Reason I said "Lavos" is because Suedou mentioned at some point that if you deal with the Mother Eater, then the problem is solved, whilst each Lavos is basically the same thing over and over so it has to be eliminated down to the last one.

Well, either that or do some Reality Warping+Timelinefusing+Dimensional malabarisms a la CC.

Other than that, not much to say. If Lavos won in every scenario and could counter everything ME has for sure then this would simply be stomp and vice versa.