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Let's slow down a little (JJBA speed downgrade)

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Irrelevant because it already deviated from the manga, either the whole scene is canon or it isn't, there's no picking and choosing.

Yes because it just so happens every single adaption showed the events to have played out the same way. Maybe think it's you who's wrong here and not lierally every thing else? That was rhetorical.

That's what you aren't getting, if the distance to the coin changes the vagrant's drawing should cange too, that's how you realize the whole scan is out of scale.

And it does change. But nice to know you're backpedaling and grasping at straws now.


Yet nearly every use of it supports the opposite which even if true would make it a outlier and useless in universe.

What the ****? Are you actually saying Pol's speed is EQUAL with his Stand? What in the actual **** world do you live in? ANY POWER TYPE STAND is faster than their user, how much varies but it's ALWAYS THE CASE. Even sometimes not power types too, Aerosmith and Sex Pistols is sure as **** faster than Narancia and Mista for example. And excuse you but outlier? Maybe you missed the fact Chariot has OTHER FTL feats as well, not just this one.

The anime is irrelevant and the dialogue location in a single panel isn't indicative of when it happens in relation to the drawing in said panel.

Except that's literally exactly what it ******* means. We have a panel, in this panel a beam of light is almost touching a coin, the character in question yells Now!, indicating when his Stand begins to attack. That's ******* it, context and reading comprehension would tell anyone reading it the Now is said there in relation to the light as that's what it happened. HM is near the coin and the Pol says Now!. None of this other shit you're making up and twisting to say a certain thing. We had a panel with the man when he was closing his eyes, ie, when HM began moving, but no, instead the text is on the panel with HM being near the coin, with the text in question being there explicitly to tell us when Chariot slashes. And then add onto the the anime confirming when the line is said, oh but the anime doesn't count even though it's explicitly hard confirming the context and timeframe of the line, but it doesn't count even though in any situation ******* ever if something is truly as vague as you're making it out to be, we'd look at the adaptions for context, even though we really even shouldnt be doing that because this shit is the most straightforward braindead thing ever.

Pol simply says Now once he knows HM is starting to move.

Except that is quite literally not what is ******* shown. Holy shit, you're actually making shit up now.

Except I already explained he just follows the flash of light and HM always reach his target first, wich goes in line with Pol saying is faster than he can see and that's why he needs timing to catch it.

And your explanation is literally wrong. That's it, its wrong, you're making shit up and it's physically paining me to continue doing this with you. What we ******* see outright disproves you wrong and yet here you are, repeating it again and again as if the very visual evidence we see doesnt end the conversation then and there. He just follows the flash of light? You mean the glint that only lasts for a billionth of a second? And all the while following it before he can jump to another destination? And would you look at that, anime's showing it again.

The sword thing as was already said is just because the panel is focused in the coin, you are not even supposed to see the sword that is supposed to be coming from outside the panel but close enough to hit HM before it reaches the coin.

You literally just ******* said the sword was off panel, you DO realize that even just taking the ******* panel as the distance would still make it FTL+-MFTL.
The panel being focused on the coin means **** all when its actually not. The panel is focused on the coin? It's also focused on Hanged Man moving, it also shows a bunch of the distance vertically and depth wise. You're acting like this is a single super zoomed in panel that shows literally just the coin and nothing else, but it aint.

the sword that is supposed to be coming from outside the panel but close enough to hit HM before it reaches the coin.

You realize that's LITERALLY THE CALCULATION. Holy shit I'm going to have aneurysm. But great, congratulations, you just admitted the sword was off panel when HM was almost touching the coin and still hit him before he could reach his destination. The ******* distance alone you're insinuating is Chariot's slash covered 377px before HM could cover 16 at MINIMUM. That's still FTL+, even though that's not what actually happened, but hey, even according to you he's FTL+ at minimum.

Pixel scaling is wonky because of Araki's disregard for depth and distance and context by the manga itself indicates Chariot and Polnareff simplt used timing and that's why they needed to know where HM was going to be and when, as proved by them being unable to harm it otherwise.

And now you're lying. There's a difference between a hand drawn manga not having perfect state of the art computer scaling and the author simply not giving a ****. But cool, in this situation we'd use the anime to calc it instead. Context? The context says and shows Chariot slashed after HM was almost near the coin. Taking one line from a previous chapter that's demonstrably proven to NOT BE WHAT HAPPENED doesn't mean it is what actually happened. We are literally shown it to not be the case, it happened differently, saying "this was said in a different scene so this is what happened" means less than nothing if it is outright shown NOT TO BE WHAT HAPPENED.
As proved by them being unable to harm it otherwise? You ******* realize Chariot only attempted to attack it twice, prior to that they quite literally did not know what it was so it wasnt them "being unable to" and after, half the chapter was basically a hostage situation and a number's game, only for Chariot to end up blitzing them, And then going on to pull more FTL+ feats out its ass proving that without a doubt, Chariot itself is far faster then Hanged Man. And stop saying "they", Pol had issues sure, but the Stand sure as **** didnt.
 
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Yes because it just so happens every single adaption showed the events to have played out the same way. Maybe think it's you who's wrong here and not lierally every thing else? That was rhetorical.

The anime is undeniably wrong compared to the manga, it's an adaptation and that's it.


And it does change. But nice to know you're backpedaling and grasping at straws now.

No it doesn't, it's the same drawing
6680980-02ebf330-53d6-4fb9-b98a-e192f1600a91.jpeg


What the ****? Are you actually saying Pol's speed is EQUAL with his Stand? What in the actual **** world do you live in? ANY POWER TYPE STAND is faster than their user, how much varies but it's ALWAYS THE CASE. Even sometimes not power types too, Aerosmith and Sex Pistols is sure as **** faster than Narancia and Mista for example. And excuse you but outlier? Maybe you missed the fact Chariot has OTHER FTL feats as well, not just this one.

This is the only x300 FTL feat, sure stands can be faster but they aren't exponentially faster than their own user's reaction, specially not SC that can't fight by itself.


And your explanation is literally wrong. That's it, its wrong, you're making shit up and it's physically paining me to continue doing this with you. What we ******* see outright disproves you wrong and yet here you are, repeating it again and again as if the very visual evidence we see doesnt end the conversation then and there. He just follows the flash of light? You mean the glint that only lasts for a billionth of a second? And all the while following it before he can jump to another destination? And would you look at that, anime's showing it again.

Pol himself is some degree of relativist so no surprise there, and I'm not wrong HM always reaches it's target first and then Pol sees him.

You literally just ******* said the sword was off panel, you DO realize that even just taking the ******* panel as the distance would still make it FTL+-MFTL.
The panel being focused on the coin means **** all when its actually not. The panel is focused on the coin? It's also focused on Hanged Man moving, it also shows a bunch of the distance vertically and depth wise. You're acting like this is a single super zoomed in panel that shows literally just the coin and nothing else, but it aint.

At absolute best would make SC like x5 FTL, but wrong depth and distances mean the distance HM-coin is also ambiguous.


And now you're lying. There's a difference between a hand drawn manga not having perfect state of the art computer scaling and the author simply not giving a ****. But cool, in this situation we'd use the anime to calc it instead. Context? The context says and shows Chariot slashed after HM was almost near the coin. Taking one line from a previous chapter that's demonstrably proven to NOT BE WHAT HAPPENED doesn't mean it is what actually happened. We are literally shown it to not be the case, it happened differently, saying "this was said in a different scene so this is what happened" means less than nothing if it is outright shown NOT TO BE WHAT HAPPENED.
As proved by them being unable to harm it otherwise? You ******* realize Chariot only attempted to attack it twice, prior to that they quite literally did not know what it was so it wasnt them "being unable to" and after, half the chapter was basically a hostage situation and a number's game, only for Chariot to end up blitzing them, And then going on to pull more FTL+ feats out its ass proving that without a doubt, Chariot itself is far faster then Hanged Man. And stop saying "they", Pol had issues sure, but the Stand sure as **** didnt.

You are arguing for an interpretation from a single out of scale and depth panel against multiple instances of the characters being too slow to cut HM, the characters saying they can't cut HM aside from very specific circumstances because it's too fast and said statements being proved right, and you try to handwave it with "well but it was in the previous chapter" or "well but that wasn't the exact same instance" or "well **** context fan calcs forever"
https://xcdn-10062.*********.net/66/c0/5c5c459dbc54687ab0880c66/21_198748_780_1200.webp?acc=sedvP8ZUrDRTB53Rl2G51A&exp=1604699168




HM is literally running circles around them and don't give me that hostage thing if SC is supposed to be exponentially faster it would have the precision to not harm anyone, nor that whole "in JoJo speed is useless if you don't know exactly where and when, down to the exact angle and milimeter, someone is going to attack you" because is simply illogical.

https://xcdn-10062.*********.net/76/c0/5c5c45d4bc54687ab0880c67/10_203878_780_1200.webp?acc=7_xr5Yr-qrFuRU6YFP2MKw&exp=1604699252
 
The anime is undeniably wrong compared to the manga, it's an adaptation and that's it.

What part of every single adaption. Did you fail to comprehend? It's an adaption, and so is the OVA, and games, and etc. And guess what happens in every single one of them?

No it doesn't, it's the same drawing

Even better. We have no reason to assume otherwise.

This is the only x300 FTL feat, sure stands can be faster but they aren't exponentially faster than their own user's reaction, specially not SC that can't fight by itself.

300x feat? Yeah sure, but it isnt the only FTL+ feat. If Chariot proceeds to pulls FTL+ feats out his ass and scales to other FTL+ feats, him being slower then light, which is the only way this feat would be discarded, is demonstrably wrong. You saying Chariot cant be faster then HM is outright false, we see him be faster and he has feats elsewhere that shows he's faster. And yes they are? Case by case. Stands most certainly can be way faster then the user's reaction. Take Echoes Act 3, Koichi can't even follow his own Stand's movements. So piss off with that shit, it's case by case and I can gather a bunch of examples right now if you want. Chariot can fight as long as he's given a command, doesn't mean he's equal with him.
here

Pol himself is some degree of relativist so no surprise there, and I'm not wrong HM always reaches it's target first and then Pol sees him.

Except that time Pol moves his head while the beam is still in flight. "Then Pol sees him", yes because Pol seeing the beam of light after it's already gone makes perfect sense.

At absolute best would make SC like x5 FTL, but wrong depth and distances mean the distance HM-coin is also ambiguous.

And then the statement is proven false as is. It'd make his ass at least 23x FTL according to your own logic and steps you've admitted to. And that's not even what ******* happens too. It isn't ambiguous, at all. We know when Chariot began his attack, we know how far HM was from the coin. That's all we need to know, **** even if we use the second panel, it's STILL MFTL. Just not as fast, like 140c. And if it's ambiguous, we look at the adaptions for context, which, hey, look at that, it tells us how the scene played out, which coincides to what we see in the manga as well.

You are arguing for an interpretation from a single out of scale and depth panel against multiple instances of the characters being too slow to cut HM, the characters saying they can't cut HM aside from very specific circumstances because it's too fast and said statements being proved right, and you try to handwave it with "well but it was in the previous chapter" or "well but that wasn't the exact same instance" or "well **** context fan calcs forever"

Interpretation? **** off with that, we very clearly see something happen, this is what we are shown on panel and in every adaption. Multiple instances of characters being to slow to cut Hanged Man? You mean none really. Polnareff was only ever given two chances to hit him, against the kid, in which Chariot swung after he began moving and struck him that time too. And against him with the coin, in which Chariot demonstrably proves to be far faster than Hanged Man to the point it's not even contestable. Every time before Ch.5 isnt them failing to hit him, it's them not knowing what his ******* power is. And every time after Ch5 is a whole host of reasons. Said statements are literally proven wrong which is why this is a debate in the first place. Chariot has FTL scaling, he has FTL feats, he has FTL feats even after the Hanged Man arc, so Chariot not being FTL is a load of shit when he's FTL in every conceivable manner one can attain a rating. Me saying it was in the previous chapter and not that instance is because Chariot aimstriking and striking ahead of time DOES NOT HAPPEN that's why I'm saying it, because it literally does not happen, it doesn't matter if it happened before if in that instance it did not and acting like that's what happened when it's factually not what occurred is the real issue here.

HM is literally running circles around them and don't give me that hostage thing if SC is supposed to be exponentially faster it would have the precision to not harm anyone, nor that whole "in JoJo speed is useless if you don't know exactly where and when, down to the exact angle and milimeter, someone is going to attack you" because is simply illogical.

Oh? So now we're going to ignore what the manga tells us because it gives more reasoning as to why Pol couldn't just hit Hanged Man. Hypocritical don't you think? And yes, Chariot is exponentially faster, even if we ignore this feat, he still has feats that make him a **** ton faster, which ironically enough proves this feat as legit, and as said, Chariot=/=Pol. And yes actually, this is proven time and time again, Crazy Diamond is a perfect example of it, literally demonstrably thousands of times faster then something, yet fails because he doesnt know where the attack came from or was coming from. Or hey, Superfly, casually deflects a bunch of attacks all at once, but gets tagged, not because he's to slow, but because he doesnt know where they're all gonna come from. Or hey, that time with Star Platinum "It doesn't matter how fast you are, if you don't know where I'll attack from, I'm still faster", etc.
But yes, let's ignore Chariot swung at and nearly bisected Hanged Man after he almost reached the coin, and also let's toss away Chariot's other feats and scaling that prove he's far faster than Hanged Man as well just to say this one feat is wrong, let's also act like the feat happened in a completely different way then presented and also ignore the adaptions that confirm the way it happened too all just to say it didnt happen the way it did.
 
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I'm about to ******* shoot myself.

The feat happens in a very certain way, this is true. I'm getting sick of arguing blatant falsehoods and misinterpretations of how the feat played out. The feat happened.
If you agree with it being used? That's one thing and at the very least, that's subjective and is open to opinion, but can we please not pretend the feat didn't actually happen the way it did.

Now can we please actually discuss something that isn't objective, the feat happened, nothing is going to change how it happened, so instead of trying to argue it didn't happen the way it did, argue, at the very least, something that's actually worth open to debate or discussion like I outlined above.
 
The best thing is to probably concentrate on the less controversial revisions first then we can resume the topic of whether we should use the MFTL calc later on once the other stuff has been taken care of.
 
The best thing is to probably concentrate on the less controversial revisions first then we can resume the topic of whether we should use the MFTL calc later on once the other stuff has been taken care of.
Like the Naruto revisions we're dong, would a scaling chain be good?

I can dig for feats (which would be easy since the manga titles specifically say the names of the villains unlike these other dumbass universes), then see who fully scales, partially scales, and that needs to be revised. Is that cool?
 
I can dig for feats

That's, really not the issue here.

then see who fully scales, partially scales, and that needs to be revised.

Telling you right now, the only Part slightly in the air is Part 5.
Part 4 is super straightforward, bar literally one, maybe two characters. Shit's gonna end up Rel to lowend FTL regardless of Hanged Man or other part scaling.
Part 6 is also pretty straight forward given we have a confirmed speed for the cast more or less. Hovering around lowend FTL for the fast boys. Some dip into Rel probably though as not everyone is as fast as Whitesnake, in fact, most aren't.
Part 5 is the only part where a scaling chain is actually a thing, and you still have to be careful, context, consistency, etc all come into play. Like for example, Grateful Dead can keep up with SF. Yes that's true, sounds good on paper, but then you have to take into account that SF's speed was stated to be dropping, it was an aging SF, and so on and so forth. Then we have things like, as mentioned above, Sex Pistols scaling to King Crimson, when King Crimson turns around and deflects every single attack with his punches.
 
That's, really not the issue here.
I wasn't clear, my bad.
I have a habit of finding the link of scans for every feat I see on this wiki. It would be helpful for people who interpret a feat differently like this
He didn't "blitz" Chariot. Chariot went to attack him then lol made of sand. Nothing he did actually qualifies as a blitz.
And so on, just so people don't get confused on feats and make counter CRTs right after this CRT is done.
So I can find the scans of the instance where the feats happened, connect the link to the comment here, and so on.

Telling you right now, the only Part slightly in the air is Part 5.
Part 4 is super straightforward, bar literally one, maybe two characters. Shit's gonna end up Rel to lowend FTL regardless of Hanged Man or other part scaling.
Part 6 is also pretty straight forward given we have a confirmed speed for the cast more or less. Hovering around lowend FTL for the fast boys. Some dip into Rel probably though as not everyone is as fast as Whitesnake, in fact, most aren't.
Part 5 is the only part where a scaling chain is actually a thing, and you still have to be careful, context, consistency, etc all come into play. Like for example, Grateful Dead can keep up with SF. Yes that's true, sounds good on paper, but then you have to take into account that SF's speed was stated to be dropping, it was an aging SF, and so on and so forth. Then we have things like, as mentioned above, Sex Pistols scaling to King Crimson, when King Crimson turns around and deflects every single attack with his punches.
I'm assuming part 4 is because of RHCP, a canon speed of light.
I'm like halfway done w/ part 6 I really don't care about spoilers, that's the consequence of powerscaling and just clarifying. Is it scaling off of Whitesnake, Star Platinum, Stone Free, and so on?
Part 5 is just intense context and consistency then. The Sticky Fingers example was good and understood.
And I'm assuming part 3 is fine? Just the top tiers like The World, Prime Star Platinum. and Silver Chariot get the hanged man speed?
 
I wasn't clear, my bad. I have a habit of finding the link of scans for every feat I see on this wiki. It would be helpful for people who interpret a feat differently like this

That isn't what I meant, i meant the issue isn't feats. We know what the feats are, you're not gonna find any more blatant ones except maybe a few casual sol ones here and there that just kinda happen.

I'm assuming part 4 is because of RHCP, a canon speed of light.

More or less, for the most part. Though, for Part 4 Star Platinum, I'd just say At least FTL, likely higher. As he's unquantifiably above everyone and he's slower then his peak, we dont know for sure though by how much. So best we can do, at the very least we know he's far faster than the part as a whole, even RHCP himself (who's scared of Star Platinum and thinks of him as the ultimate stand, despite time stop).

I'm like halfway done w/ part 6 I really don't care about spoilers, that's the consequence of powerscaling and just clarifying. Is it scaling off of Whitesnake, Star Platinum, Stone Free, and so on?

Mostly SP and WS as the basis. Though that doesn't inherently mean everyone scales the same. Weather Report for example is faster than WS, while a lot of the other Stands, do not scale to him in full or directly. Stone Free does, but that's only when at maximum output, normally she's slower to a degree.

And I'm assuming part 3 is fine? Just the top tiers like The World, Prime Star Platinum. and Silver Chariot get the hanged man speed?

If we go that route sure and actually use HM, yeah (Though Part 3 upscales off other parts anyway and Chariot has a other FTL+ feat, which is proven actual light, I even posted the scans earlier in the thread), ******* like HG though for example aren't even comparable. Dio sees the Emerald Splash in slow motion for example, and Dio is slower than SP. Most of the part are demonstrably slower than the top tiers. Only a few are in a weird spot where they both should and shouldnt scale to some extent.
 
That isn't what I meant, i meant the issue isn't feats. We know what the feats are, you're not gonna find any more blatant ones except maybe a few casual sol ones here and there that just kinda happen.
Ohhh alright.
More or less, for the most part. Though, for Part 4 Star Platinum, I'd just say At least FTL, likely higher. As he's unquantifiably above everyone and he's slower then his peak, we dont know for sure though by how much. So best we can do, at the very least we know he's far faster than the part as a whole, even RHCP himself (who's scared of Star Platinum and thinks of him as the ultimate stand, despite time stop).
FTL likely higher should be the safest.
I know this is like, dumb, considering speech is a free action and real world physics and such, but is Speed of Light RHCP's travel speed instead of combat? He's clearly traveling around, it's not like he's just dodging, he's flat out moving. Also Koichi should have minimum speed of light reaction for telling the exact speed of RHCP.
Mostly SP and WS as the basis. Though that doesn't inherently mean everyone scales the same. Weather Report for example is faster than WS, while a lot of the other Stands, do not scale to him in full or directly. Stone Free does, but that's only when at maximum output, normally she's slower to a degree.
That makes sense. I guess it's just a matter of how much they scale that matters.
If we go that route sure and actually use HM, yeah (Though Part 3 upscales off other parts anyway and Chariot has a other FTL+ feat, which is proven actual light, I even posted the scans earlier in the thread), ******* like HG though for example aren't even comparable. Dio sees the Emerald Splash in slow motion for example, and Dio is slower than SP. Most of the part are demonstrably slower than the top tiers. Only a few are in a weird spot where they both should and shouldnt scale to some extent.
Agreed. Now that I skimmed through the manga, these people outside of the high tiers are slow as hell compared to The World (Araki can fight me that stand is just buff, fast, and full of hax).
 
but is Speed of Light RHCP's travel speed instead of combat? He's clearly traveling around, it's not like he's just dodging, he's flat out moving. Also Koichi should have minimum speed of light reaction for telling the exact speed of RHCP.

It's Travel and reaction speed. Koichi knowing how fast he is in the wires is more like, basic info most people know. Doesn't mean he's actually at that speed as well for that reason (there's other reasoning why he could maybe scale to RHCP's speed, but it wouldnt be for simply knowing how fast he moves through the wires).
CD, around that timeframe, is probably hovering around sol, though he should be faster later on (as well as slower earlier, on, especially as that one is outright confirmed, by RHCP himself actually, which means everyone pre RHCP arc has to scale to their own feats or Rel/+).

The rest isnt really worth responding to, agreed more or less.
 
I know this is like, dumb, considering speech is a free action and real world physics and such, but is Speed of Light RHCP's travel speed instead of combat? He's clearly traveling around, it's not like he's just dodging, he's flat out moving. Also Koichi should have minimum speed of light reaction for telling the exact speed of RHCP.

It is also combat speed since he was able to emerge, grab Josuke/Crazy Diamond and turn them around at high speed without Josuke even being able to tell what happened.
 
How are you arguing MFTL The whole MFTL argument is based on an action scene just made to look cool that didn't even happen in the manga.
 
come back after a day of being gone
hm is brought up again
41RO.gif



Anyway, for Part 6. We all agree that Part 6 SP is at least FTL, possibly higher (as in idk, maybe he dips into FTL+), this is at least agreed upon correct?
 
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Anyway, for Part 6. We all agree that Part 6 SP is at least FTL, possibly higher (as in idk, maybe he dips into FTL+), this is at least agreed upon correct?
Aren't his Stand stats the same in Part 6, aside from Durability and Development Potential? I haven't read Part 6 yet, so I'm just going off of that.
 
Aren't his Stand stats the same in Part 6, aside from Durability and Development Potential? I haven't read Part 6 yet, so I'm just going off of that.

No, Part 3 Peak>Part 3 Not Peak>Part 4>?Part 6>>>Part 6 End.

He still has high end Stand Stats though, except in Staying, which doesn't inherently mean durability, it's the most vague stat, it can mean anything from ability length, ability cooldown, durability, how much effort it takes to keep the stand active, their effect on reality and the world as a whole, etc. Star Platinum's downgrade in Staying has more to do with the fact an atrophied Jotaro just got out of a coma and is trying to fight more than anything.
His Development Potential got hit though for obvious reasoning.
 
I thought the calc was based on the anime scene, the scene where silver chariot was moving while hanged man was in slow-mo.

Calc is literally older than the anime.
 
It was still specifically said he couldn't keep up.
You have read the thread right? Because this very point was touched upon like a dozen times in every single conceivable manner, I could and honestly want to respond to this, but I'm gonna opt to not do that to avoid entering the HM conversation again right when some minor progress has been started to get made. In fact I'm pretty sure it was agreed upon, at least for now, we move on to the other topics (though i should say, I'm a bit busy atm, which is why i havent been moving the thread along personally, ill still respond regardless though).
 
I dont agree with those like Crazy Diamond to be rel+ only when he kept up with him in a rush attack and also blitzed him way earlier at his home when rhcp was thinking he can avoid him if striking
 
@BlackDarkness679; he was overwhelmed by him in an exchange of rush attacks - and RHCP varies depending on the amount of electricity he has. So when he confronted Josuke earlier he just didn't have enough power.
 
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