Lookism: Speed Upgrade

[Aksh_sky]

So in this crt I'll be scaling the speed of lookism Mid, High and God tiers based on a recent accepted calc(913.85 m/s).

To put this simply, this feat is done by a Mid-tier in the overall ptj verse and I'll be discussing here regarding who would scale to this feat and who'll receive multipliers over this feat.

Questism:
Since the charecter, Daniel himself is also from the series, Quetsism so therefore I'll discuss regarding who would scale to this feat.

So as for Quetsism scaling, it's pretty straightforward tbh because we literally are given all stats for charecters in Quetsism so it's pretty easy to chainscale. So first of all, Daniel was doing this feat had XXX stats, so it's pretty straightforward regarding who would scale to this. That's right, anyone with XXX or higher stats would scale to this, which are: DX, EX and Immeasurable(Upper limit of the peeking card, meaning after hitting immeasurable, the card cannot quantify one's stats anymore after they've hit immeasurable stats no matter how much their stats are).

I'll basically name every charecters who would scale to this feat in Quetsism(everyone whom I remember):

• Kim Shooyun
• Choyun
• Gu Hajun
• Daniel
• Ma Jeongdu
• UI Yang Gukja

All of them have speed stats at XXX of higher in their strongest forms shown. Lets move on to the real deal, Lookism charecters:

Lookism:

Johan Seong appeared a few times i Questism, all of which times he was shown to have Immeasurable stats, which I've already stated to be higher than XXX stats.

Which means that Base Johan in and after HFBD would scale to Supersonic+(913.85 m/s) and Hypersonic(2,741.55 m/s) with CQC, which is an accepted 3x multiplier for AP and Speed, already accepted in a crt.

Now anyone who scales to CQC Johan would scale to Hypersonic. Everyone who directly scales to CQC Johan are:

• FP Yuseong (Was able to save Eugene from and Injured Johan's CQC while being injured himself and was able to save him from all last of his strength)

• Gun Park - Adrenaline Mode (counterattacked CQC Johan from a VERY close distance)

• Johan Seong - Path (Was overwhelming Adrenaline Gun badly in terms of speed)

Hence other high tiers would also scale to this, there are just too many to name here but yeah...Anyone above HFBD CQC Johan would scale to Hypersonic. This would include: most guys from pre-generation, top tiers of 1st generation and top tiers of 2nd generation.

I'll try to include as many people as i can because this scaling applies to many.

Pre-generation:

• Almost everyone scales above HFBD Yuseong or CQC Johan. That's like pretty obvious ngl since almost everyone has masteries.

1st Generation:

• Someone like Jichang Kwak (Was able fight OG UI Daniel and Charles Choi)

• Kim Kitae (A God tier of the verse)

• Lee Jihoon (Same as Kitae)

• Jinrang (Overpowered Kitae for a while before his body gave up due to the overcome. He already was tired and fatigued before. Base Jinrang should also scale to it by simply being a menace as he overpowered few 2nd gens, Gong and Taeso)

• Seongji Yuk (Was able to outspeed 2T James)

• Changsu Oh (Was able to fight Jinyoung Park, who is a pre gen top tier)

• Jaegyeon Na (Easily overpowered Sang Baek and Baekjin while holding back and dodged James's kick)

• Yujae Seon (Overpowered Jaegyeon Na and outperformed him)

• Sang Baek (Was matching Zack in speed)

• Baekjin (Was able to blitz AI Eli)

• UF Taeso Ma (Blitzed Busan no 5)

• 1S1K Gongseop (Blitzed Busan no 6)

• Ja-un Ryu (made Paecheon go FP)

• Mugak Wang (Both Ryu and Mugak and similar in stats)

That's pretty much everyone i could remember.

1.5 gen and others:

• Basement Hulk (Made Johan, Eli, Jake and Samuel struggle badly. All 4 majot crewheads could barely do much)

• Kim Joongoo (Self explanatory. Currently probably t1 in the verse and a God tier because be low diffed Paecheon with only 8 moonlight swords while having 42 more, each increasing his speed significantly but unquanfiably. Paecheon was implied to be Shingen level by Shintaro, and Shintaro should be authoritative enough to be knowledgeable about Shingen's power.)

2nd Generation:

• Kim Gimyoung (Destroyed Mugak)

• Seo Seong-Eun (Low different Ja-un Ryu)

• Mandeok Bang (Narratively shown to be around Yuseong level)

• Park Hyungseok - OG Body (Self explanatory, is a top tier in the verse currently and all his modes including base would scale to this)

• Park Hyungseok - SB Body (would scale to this speed in Heat Mode as he managed to give Jaegyeon a fight.)

• Jang Hyeung (deflected BH's attacks and fought well against him and Gun)

• Lee Jin-Sung (defeated killing intent Johan)

• Kuroda Ryuhei (gave Gun a good fight in HFBD and grew wayy stronger and faster later in the series with his ninja techs)

That's pretty much everyone i could remember.

Now moving on to another multiplier.

UI PB Daniel, specifically would scale to Hypersonic+ (8,224.65 m/s) with CQC because PB Daniel in his UI mode already scales above CQC Johan in base because he went toe to toe with TUI Gun park who is already wayy faster than Adrenaline Gun, UI Daniel was even overpowering TUI Gun is all factors for a while(ch-515) before Gun exploited UI Daniel's weakness. UI Daniel himself can also use CQC, which would give him a 3x speed multiplier over his base which already scales to 2,741 m/s and with CQC, he'd scale to 8,224 m/s.

Now there's nobody in the verse currently who concretely scales to CQC UI Daniel or FP UI Daniel in general, so therefore nobody really scales to him since Daniel is just as strong, fast and durable as his opponent gets so it makes it even harder to chainscale him to charecters especially if we're testing his upper limit because that just makes it impossible for anyone to scale to UI Daniel's upper limit.

Ik this crt kinda looks bad but that's the first time me making an upgrade crt so...yeah.

Agree: @Aksh_sky, @Sigmagoon14, @WindyAttack, @Pyro9278, @Scarlet_orchard

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Agree with everything for high tiers and Questism characters, but I have a question: do mid-tiers at least scale to that supersonic calc? And if it does wouldn't Warren will also get hypersonic scaling via 3x CQC?

 

[WindyAttack]

Agree with everything

 

[Aksh_sky]

Agree with everything for high tiers and Questism characters, but I have a question: do mid-tiers at least scale to that supersonic calc? And if it does wouldn't Warren will also get hypersonic scaling via 3x CQC?

Yes, mid tiers obviously scales to it.

Daniel himself is a mid tier and Warren MIGHT scale to it but it's safer to use Johan as a base because we clearly saw his stats. Now CT Warren would deffinately scale to this and would scale to Hypersonic with CQC but unfortunately it's hard to scale his past base, from like HFBD or 1A directly to Daniel and harder to chainscale to i just went for the safer guy.

 

[Pyro9278]

I have not yet seen the complete CRT, only read superficially but this should be of a scale to MK as well.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I have not yet seen the complete CRT, only read superficially but this should be of a scale to MK as well.

I did mentioned that most of the pre gen folks should scale to this.

 

[Pyro9278]

I did mentioned that most of the pre gen folks should scale to this.

First of all I agree with everything, good work I must admit. Second, technically Tom Lee and those who are comparable to him or superior are Hypersonic+, considering that he is even superior to the military trio having CQC after all we have dozens of statements from Tom Lee being considered a monster in MK.

I know it was already implied when it was mentioned that Gun would have Hypersonic+, but actually it’s important to highlight this since technically this also improves Daniel UI itself.

 

[Pxnd_013]

I won't comment on the CQC multiplier for now. However, I will say that characters like Haru can scale to this calculation, since there's already a CRT for this feat. Therefore, any character whose speed is comparable to or greater than Haru's should also be able to scale to it.

Also, I'm not sure whether you created this CRT only to upgrade the Questism characters, along with Johan, Gun, and PB Daniel, or if it also applies to other characters. If you intend to upgrade additional characters, you should specify which ones they are and explain why they scale. That would make it much easier for the staff to evaluate the CRT.

 

[Aksh_sky]

First of all I agree with everything, good work I must admit. Second, technically Tom Lee and those who are comparable to him or superior are Hypersonic+, considering that he is even superior to the military trio having CQC after all we have dozens of statements from Tom Lee being considered a monster in MK.

I know it was already implied when it was mentioned that Gun would have Hypersonic+, but actually it’s important to highlight this since technically this also improves Daniel UI itself.

Yes UI Daniel does get a huge buff but i think seeing that he's js comparable to his opponents, it makes sense kinda.

Though i am pretty sure base MK would get multiplier over CQC Warren or HFBD Johan but u can't really prove it, if not him then someone like Woocheol Nam who almost folded the dad trio should scale to that easily but there's no objective evidence to scale them in a straightforward way so i chose the safest ends.

Speaking of Tom being HS+ then idk how that'd work since it'll require someone to scale to HFBF Johan or Yuseong or someone like that in base, but there's no objective evidence so idk about ts one cuz there's practically nobody rn who scaled to FP UI Daniel.

 

[Pyro9278]

I won't comment on the CQC multiplier for now. However, I will say that characters like Haru can scale to this calculation, since there's already a CRT for this feat. Therefore, any character whose speed is comparable to or greater than Haru's should also be able to scale to it.

Also, I'm not sure whether you created this CRT only to upgrade the Questism characters, along with Johan, Gun, and PB Daniel, or if it also applies to other characters. If you intend to upgrade additional characters, you should specify which ones they are and explain why they scale. That would make it much easier for the staff to evaluate the CRT.

I think that would technically be a case of piling up calculations, unfortunately, since Haru is supposed to be inferior by a wide margin.

By the way, yes, you're right that he needs to specify more who scales; however, he already said that the pre-gen would scale to this, and obviously those who are superior would too.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I won't comment on the CQC multiplier for now. However, I will say that characters like Haru can scale to this calculation, since there's already a CRT for this feat. Therefore, any character whose speed is comparable to or greater than Haru's should also be able to scale to it.

I think Daniel wasn't really noticing Haru in this case because ik that too since in happened in the very chapter that I've calced the feat of because it'd be incosnsistent if we say that somone with XXX stat would scale someone with this stat because even guys like Jiwon Seo with XX stats was also playing with LR stat Uijin but even then he was getting blitzed and barely managed to land a hit.

If Haru would scale to that Daniel then additional CQC multiplier would be applied but I don't really agree with that ngl as that'd lwk be wank by using the same tech over and over to stack multipliers.

Btw yeah I'll add more charecters.

 

[Pyro9278]

Yes UI Daniel does get a huge buff but i think seeing that he's js comparable to his opponents, it makes sense kinda.

Though i am pretty sure base MK would get multiplier over CQC Warren or HFBD Johan but u can't really prove it, if not him then someone like Woocheol Nam who almost folded the dad trio should scale to that easily but there's no objective evidence to scale them in a straightforward way so i chose the safest ends.

Speaking of Tom being HS+ then idk how that'd work since it'll require someone to scale to HFBF Johan or Yuseong or someone like that in base, but there's no objective evidence so idk about ts one cuz there's practically nobody rn who scaled to FP UI Daniel.

Didn't we see that when Johan started copying SMK's Jeet Kune Do, he could react to his attacks? And he had already copied the "basic" of CQC at that point, so yeah, SMK would be at hypersonic scale.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Didn't we see that when Johan started copying SMK's Jeet Kune Do, he could react to his attacks? And he had already copied the "basic" of CQC at that point, so yeah, SMK would be at hypersonic scale.

Ye ik, I'll just add them

 

[Pyro9278]

Didn't we see that when Johan started copying SMK's Jeet Kune Do, he could react to his attacks? And he had already copied the "basic" of CQC at that point, so yeah, SMK would be at hypersonic scale.

Now that I think about it, if this improves PB Daniel UI, it should also improve Lil Daniel UI, and James, Kitae, Daniel, and Jinyoung with their Path, and obviously Gap and Shingen Prime.

 

[Pxnd_013]

I think that would technically be a case of piling up calculations, unfortunately, since Haru is supposed to be inferior by a wide margin.

I think Daniel wasn't really noticing Haru in this case because ik that too since in happened in the very chapter that I've calced the feat of because it'd be incosnsistent if we say that somone with XXX stat would scale someone with this stat because even guys like Jiwon Seo with XX stats was also playing with LR stat Uijin but even then he was getting blitzed and barely managed to land a hit.

If Haru would scale to that Daniel then additional CQC multiplier would be applied but I don't really agree with that ngl as that'd lwk be wank by using the same tech over and over to stack multipliers.

The CRT doesn't say that Haru is as fast as a fully serious Daniel. It only concludes that Daniel was more serious against Haru than he was against Eunhyeong.

Let me give a hypothetical example. Suppose Daniel fought Eunhyeong while using only 5% of his full speed, and that 5% corresponds to 913.85 m/s. Then, suppose Daniel fought Haru at 10%. That doesn't mean Haru scales to Daniel's full speed—it simply means Haru pushed Daniel to use 10% of his power, which is greater than the 5% he used against Eunhyeong. Since Daniel's 5% is already 913.85 m/s, Haru would at least scale above that level.

I'm not sure how to explain it any better than that. To be honest, it's been a long time since I finished reading Questism, so I've forgotten some of the details. Because of that, I can't say much beyond referencing the accepted CRT. If the CRT's author agrees with this interpretation, they can add it. If not, that's perfectly fine too.

 

[Scarlet_orchard]

I agree with this

 

[Aksh_sky]

The CRT doesn't say that Haru is as fast as a fully serious Daniel. It only concludes that Daniel was more serious against Haru than he was against Eunhyeong

Makes sense. Btw I added alot of folks in this crt.

Let me give a hypothetical example. Suppose Daniel fought Eunhyeong while using only 5% of his full speed, and that 5% corresponds to 913.85 m/s. Then, suppose Daniel fought Haru at 10%. That doesn't mean Haru scales to Daniel's full speed—it simply means Haru pushed Daniel to use 10% of his power, which is greater than the 5% he used against Eunhyeong. Since Daniel's 5% is already 913.85 m/s, Haru would at least scale above that level.

Makes sense, guess I'll make some changes. I just want to know that did Haru used CQC after this incident?

I'm not sure how to explain it any better than that. To be honest, it's been a long time since I finished reading Questism, so I've forgotten some of the details.

Same

If the CRT's author agrees with this interpretation, they can add it. If not, that's perfectly fine too.

I will ig.

 

[Pyro9278]

• FP Yuseong (Was able to save Eugene from and Injured Johan's CQC while being injured himself and was able to save him from all last of his strength)

I wouldn't use Yuseong as a reference point, since that would imply Yuseong is at least three times faster than Johan. It also doesn't help that Johan was quite fatigued by that point.

 

[Pyro9278]

The CRT doesn't say that Haru is as fast as a fully serious Daniel. It only concludes that Daniel was more serious against Haru than he was against Eunhyeong.

Let me give a hypothetical example. Suppose Daniel fought Eunhyeong while using only 5% of his full speed, and that 5% corresponds to 913.85 m/s. Then, suppose Daniel fought Haru at 10%. That doesn't mean Haru scales to Daniel's full speed—it simply means Haru pushed Daniel to use 10% of his power, which is greater than the 5% he used against Eunhyeong. Since Daniel's 5% is already 913.85 m/s, Haru would at least scale above that level.

I'm not sure how to explain it any better than that. To be honest, it's been a long time since I finished reading Questism, so I've forgotten some of the details. Because of that, I can't say much beyond referencing the accepted CRT. If the CRT's author agrees with this interpretation, they can add it. If not, that's perfectly fine too.

Basically, the logic behind this CRT is an inverse scale based on the characters' performance, which is simply a "Less than" the value of the original feat. I think we can take that into account, but it still wouldn't be valid to use multipliers like CQC.

 

[Mriiicydragon]

Agree with everything

 

[Mriiicydragon]

Yes UI Daniel does get a huge buff but i think seeing that he's js comparable to his opponents, it makes sense kinda.

Though i am pretty sure base MK would get multiplier over CQC Warren or HFBD Johan but u can't really prove it, if not him then someone like Woocheol Nam who almost folded the dad trio should scale to that easily but there's no objective evidence to scale them in a straightforward way so i chose the safest ends.

Speaking of Tom being HS+ then idk how that'd work since it'll require someone to scale to HFBF Johan or Yuseong or someone like that in base, but there's no objective evidence so idk about ts one cuz there's practically nobody rn who scaled to FP UI Daniel.

I might be incorrect about this but cant you scale manager Kim to basement hulk without cqc cause he was able to fight against tom without cqc two times even though the fight where short but still able to go relative and able to damage tom without cqc. Basement hulk was stated to have a weaker or some form of tom Lee physical stats and basement hulk scales to Johan here with the cqc mutiplier and with this can’t it get to anyone relative to manager Kim and tom ti hypersonic plus? Or no ,sorry if worded wrong

 

[CatLover313]

So in this crt I'll be scaling the speed of lookism Mid, High and God tiers based on a recent accepted calc(913.85 m/s).

To put this simply, this feat is done by a Mid-tier in the overall ptj verse and I'll be discussing here regarding who would scale to this feat and who'll receive multipliers over this feat.

Questism:
Since the charecter, Daniel himself is also from the series, Quetsism so therefore I'll discuss regarding who would scale to this feat.

So as for Quetsism scaling, it's pretty straightforward tbh because we literally are given all stats for charecters in Quetsism so it's pretty easy to chainscale. So first of all, Daniel was doing this feat had XXX stats, so it's pretty straightforward regarding who would scale to this. That's right, anyone with XXX or higher stats would scale to this, which are: DX, EX and Immeasurable(Upper limit of the peeking card, meaning after hitting immeasurable, the card cannot quantify one's stats anymore after they've hit immeasurable stats no matter how much their stats are).

I'll basically name every charecters who would scale to this feat in Quetsism(everyone whom I remember):

• Kim Shooyun
• Choyun
• Gu Hajun
• Daniel
• Ma Jeongdu
• UI Yang Gukja

All of them have speed stats at XXX of higher in their strongest forms shown. Lets move on to the real deal, Lookism charecters:

Lookism:

Johan Seong appeared a few times i Questism, all of which times he was shown to have Immeasurable stats, which I've already stated to be higher than XXX stats.

Which means that Base Johan in and after HFBD would scale to Supersonic+(913.85 m/s) and Hypersonic(2,741.55 m/s) with CQC, which is an accepted 3x multiplier for AP and Speed, already accepted in a crt.

No issues, calc accepted, makes sense.

Now anyone who scales to CQC Johan would scale to Hypersonic. Everyone who directly scales to CQC Johan are:

• FP Yuseong (Was able to save Eugene from and Injured Johan's CQC while being injured himself and was able to save him from all last of his strength)

• Gun Park - Adrenaline Mode (counterattacked CQC Johan from a VERY close distance)

• Johan Seong - Path (Was overwhelming Adrenaline Gun badly in terms of speed)

Disagree with Yuseong, Johan was heavily injured, was passed out beforehand, had enough energy for one burst of attack, Yuseong was right next to Eugene, and all he did was throw himself to be a punching bag, and then both passed out. Nothing insinuates that Johan was at his usual speed level and the distance Yuseong would need to travel to protect Eugene is significantly less than the distance Johan needs to travel anyway.

UI PB Daniel, specifically would scale to Hypersonic+ (8,224.65 m/s) with CQC because PB Daniel in his UI mode already scales above CQC Johan in base because he went toe to toe with TUI Gun park who is already wayy faster than Adrenaline Gun, UI Daniel was even overpowering TUI Gun is all factors for a while(ch-515) before Gun exploited UI Daniel's weakness. UI Daniel himself can also use CQC, which would give him a 3x speed multiplier over his base which already scales to 2,741 m/s and with CQC, he'd scale to 8,224 m/s.

Now there's nobody in the verse currently who concretely scales to CQC UI Daniel or FP UI Daniel in general, so therefore nobody really scales to him since Daniel is just as strong, fast and durable as his opponent gets so it makes it even harder to chainscale him to charecters especially if we're testing his upper limit because that just makes it impossible for anyone to scale to UI Daniel's upper limit.

Skipping a couple of parts for now, but I don't really have any issue with UI PB Daniel being faster than adrenaline Gun as he can go toe-to-toe with TUI Gun. So the CQC multiplier on that makes sense.

• Almost everyone scales above HFBD Yuseong or CQC Johan. That's like pretty obvious ngl since almost everyone has masteries.

Literally, no one besides Adrenaline Gun has reacted to a proper CQC Johan. You need scans and reasons that connect to CQC Johan with most of our reasonings boiling down to "they're faster than CQC Johan because they have masteries". Even having masteries isn't enough to prove they're above him as number of masteries doesn't equate to strength as stated multiple times in the series. Mastery could raise durability, technique, or AP without being a speed increase and even those with speed mastery have been outspeed/equal to those without it. Even if you want to say these characters are faster than HFBD Johan, there is no connection to them being faster than CQC Johan. Some of the characters I have no issue with scaling but majority of the one's in the post do not reasonable scale above CQC Johan as there is no proof or even scans for it. So considering it's half of the post that I disagree with, just put me as disagreeing until a better scale with reasonings and scans.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Disagree with Yuseong, Johan was heavily injured, was passed out beforehand, had enough energy for one burst of attack, Yuseong was right next to Eugene, and all he did was throw himself to be a punching bag, and then both passed out. Nothing insinuates that Johan was at his usual speed level and the distance Yuseong would need to travel to protect Eugene is significantly less than the distance Johan needs to travel anyway.

Hmm...so based on that only, would people that I've used in my crt change? Because now it's just hfbd cqc Johan. Lmk. Also lmk what do you think about what pxnd said about Haru because i think Daniel just didn't noticed her because in the very next chapter, Daniel was dodging her like nothing with the same difficulty.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I might be incorrect about this but cant you scale manager Kim to basement hulk without cqc cause he was able to fight against tom without cqc two times even though the fight where short but still able to go relative and able to damage tom without cqc. Basement hulk was stated to have a weaker or some form of tom Lee physical stats and basement hulk scales to Johan here with the cqc mutiplier and with this can’t it get to anyone relative to manager Kim and tom ti hypersonic plus? Or no ,sorry if worded wrong

Hmm...maybe

 

[CatLover313]

Hmm...so based on that only, would people that I've used in my crt change? Because now it's just hfbd cqc Johan. Lmk.

Whoever scales to/above Adrenaline Gun. Though, we also agreed it's fair to assume TUI Gun > Adrenaline Gun. So James would scale due to his statement in HFG, Kitae scales to James as we've seen, Pre-Path + Path FP Jinyoung can tag Kitae, FP Tom Lee can tag James in HFW, Goo could fight evenly with Tom so he and especially his two-sword version scales, Paecheon with Hwarang Sword defeated Moonlight Goo, Path Daniel + UI Lil Daniel could tag Kitae, Prime Gen 0 because of Tom's statements on his prime (especially Shingen and Gap easily scale due to multiple statements), and True Convicton Jinrang because of his performance against Kitae (though it doesn't matter because jinrang doesn't have a profile). Think that's everybody off the top of my head and the reasonings, scans are definitely there so they should be easy to get.

Edit: To address the 2nd part:

Also lmk what do you think about what pxnd said about Haru because i think Daniel just didn't noticed her because in the very next chapter, Daniel was dodging her like nothing with the same difficulty.

I rememeber we used to have two feats (both by Questism Daniel) where it was speed feats of him dodging/evading/reflecting attacks from Uijin (LR+ Speed) and Suhyeon (XX Speed). Then I saw the Haru (UR+ Speed I think) being scaled to Daniel (XXX Speed) and thought, if we're allowing this, wouldn't this discredit the speed feats he was scaled to previously? Also, a UR+ Speed and XXX speed from statements in-verse should be way above "Heaven and Earth", so I rather not have Haru scale and if we do, just give him "At most Supersonic+, higher with CQC" rating but don't allow the CQC multiplier to bump the value by 3x because we know the value would be much lower.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Whoever scales to/above Adrenaline Gun. Though, we also agreed it's fair to assume TUI Gun > Adrenaline Gun. So James would scale due to his statement in HFG, Kitae scales to James as we've seen, Pre-Path + Path FP Jinyoung can tag Kitae, FP Tom Lee can tag James in HFW, Goo could fight evenly with Tom so he and especially his two-sword version scales, Paecheon with Hwarang Sword defeated Moonlight Goo, Path Daniel + UI Lil Daniel could tag Kitae, Prime Gen 0 because of Tom's statements on his prime (especially Shingen and Gap easily scale due to multiple statements), and True Convicton Jinrang because of his performance against Kitae (though it doesn't matter because jinrang doesn't have a profile). Think that's everybody off the top of my head and the reasonings, scans are definitely there so they should be easy to get.

Isn't it fair to assume that UI Daniel copy Johan>CQC Johan because he literally used that instead of CQC when he was bloodlusted. Both in case of Zack and Yuseong.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Isn't it fair to assume that UI Daniel copy Johan>CQC Johan because he literally used that instead of CQC when he was bloodlusted. Both in case of Zack and Yuseong.

Nevermind...turns out i was right. UI Daniel was his strongest copy all these time, it even makes sense narritively as his body gives up after just 10 seconds of barely copying him. It was even stated to be bis FP and NOT CQC.

Here's more...and it even makes sense because Johan obviously would go FP against Gun, but the only reason he didn't used UI Daniel copy im HFG against adrenal because he knew that lasting only 10 seconds isn't going to make him win against Gun at all as he has already used that tech already, so that'd be a bad gamble. And yeah he went all out against Zack.

 

[CatLover313]

Isn't it fair to assume that UI Daniel copy Johan>CQC Johan because he literally used that instead of CQC when he was bloodlusted. Both in case of Zack and Yuseong.

No, that would need to be a whole different CRT to prove UI Copy > CQC, and even then it's one I'd lean toward disagreeing with. CQC and UI Copy have never been directly compared or swapped mid-fight against the same threat to show which performs better. In the HFG fight against Gun shows him using UI Copy then CQC, but that's consistent with UI Copy's 10-second limit running out, not CQC being a fallback for a weaker option. They also just have different functions: CQC is a burst technique where the boost only applies during the attack sequence, while UI Copy is a sustained 10-second boost that lets him use his full moveset with other copies, not just CQC. Different tools for different purposes, not a power ranking. It be one thing if they were both the same type (i.e. Transformation or Technique) but they're separately a technique and transformation.

 

[Aksh_sky]

No, that would need to be a whole different CRT to prove UI Copy > CQC, and even then it's one I'd lean toward disagreeing with.

You need a seperate crt for something that has been blatently stated to be Johan's FP?

CQC and UI Copy have never been directly compared or swapped mid-fight against the same threat to show which performs better.

Literally stated for UI Daniel copy Johan to be Johan's FP, not CQC Johan.

In the HFG fight against Gun shows him using UI Copy then CQC, but that's consistent with UI Copy's 10-second limit running out, not CQC being a fallback for a weaker option.

What ur talking about? He literally uses UI Daniel copy against Gun and destroyed base Gun meanwhile couldn't do anything in CQC, yes he had adrenaline but UI Daniel copy should be relative to CQC. Again he still used it because he had already used UI Copy before so he cannot do that again or his body would've break, I've already stated that.

They also just have different functions: CQC is a burst technique where the boost only applies during the attack sequence, while UI Copy is a sustained 10-second boost that lets him use his full moveset with other copies, not just CQC. Different tools for different purposes, not a power ranking.

Ok? He never used Daniel copy and CQC together.

 

[CatLover313]

You need a seperate crt for something that has been blatently stated to be Johan's FP?

Literally stated for UI Daniel copy Johan to be Johan's FP, not CQC Johan.

What ur talking about? He literally uses UI Daniel copy against Gun and destroyed base Gun meanwhile couldn't do anything in CQC, yes he had adrenaline but UI Daniel copy should be relative to CQC. Again he still used it because he had already used UI Copy before so he cannot do that again or his body would've break, I've already stated that.

Ok? He never used Daniel copy and CQC together.

Not like Zack has ever seen Johan use CQC either, he's just making a statement with the current information he has. If he's never seen CQC, his "going all-out for the first time" comment can only be relative to what he's personally witnessed, not a comparison to a technique he doesn't even know exists. You can't use his statement as proof UI Copy > CQC when he has no basis to rank something he's never seen.

On the Gun fight, you said CQC failed against Adrenaline Gun, then UI Copy took down Injured Gun. That's not a controlled comparison, since Gun's power state changed between the two encounters. Adrenaline Gun and Pre-Injured Adrenaline Gun aren't the same threat level, so CQC failing against the Adrenaline version and UI Copy succeeding against the unboosted version doesn't tell you anything about which technique is strongee. It could just mean Pre-Adrenaline Gun was weaker, which is much more likely due to how Johan was dominated by Gun and had to unlock Path to stop from being destroyed. Also, body strain ruling out a repeat use isn't evidence about the technique's power relative to CQC especially when I said that there's a difference between short-burst technique attack and a full blown stat-amp transformation.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Here's another evidence that even Base Gun would scale to CQC Johan in speed and if that's the case then many would scale to Base Gun. Also this is HFBD Johan who so it makes sense for the later charecters to scale above him.

"With copy" would also include CQC ofc.

 

[CatLover313]

Here's another evidence that even Base Gun would scale to CQC Johan in speed and if that's the case then many would scale to Base Gun. Also this is HFBD Johan who so it makes sense for the later charecters to scale above him.

"With copy" would also include CQC ofc.

I have no issue with Base Gun scaling to CQC Johan, I even had 1-Sword Goo and Tom scaling to CQC Johan so ofc I wouldn't have issues with Base Gun. However, how does this change anything about the scaling when it's just a statement about Base Gun in HFG's scaling and him being superior to Johan?

 

[Aksh_sky]

Not like Zack has ever seen Johan use CQC either, he's just making a statement with the current information he has. If he's never seen CQC, his "going all-out for the first time" comment can only be relative to what he's personally witnessed, not a comparison to a technique he doesn't even know exists. You can't use his statement as proof UI Copy > CQC when he has no basis to rank something he's never seen.

Literally makes no sense for him to not go FP against Gun. He even used UI copy over CQC in HFG against base Gun so both should be relative and adrenaline isn't even much of a stat boost either, UI Copy should be relative to CQC. And again, it's narritively true. Why would Johan hold back an attack 3x powerful against Gun?

On the Gun fight, you said CQC failed against Adrenaline Gun, then UI Copy took down Injured Gun. That's not a controlled comparison, since Gun's power state changed between the two encounters. Adrenaline Gun and Pre-Injured Adrenaline Gun aren't the same threat level, so CQC failing against the Adrenaline version and UI Copy succeeding against the unboosted version doesn't tell you anything about which technique is strongee. It could just mean Pre-Adrenaline Gun was weaker, which is much more likely due to how Johan was dominated by Gun and had to unlock Path to stop from being destroyed. Also, body strain ruling out a repeat use isn't evidence about the technique's power relative to CQC especially when I said that there's a difference between short-burst technique attack and a full blown stat-amp transformation.

Adrenaline Gun destroyed CQC Johan and could do the same with UI Copy too. But UI copy was able to beat base injured Gun, seeing how badly he lost again Ad Gun u can't really compare because in both cases they'd loose against AD Gun EVEN WITH CQC as per Tom's statement...below 5% chance. So base Gun should scale to this.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I have no issue with Base Gun scaling to CQC Johan, I even had 1-Sword Goo and Tom scaling to CQC Johan so ofc I wouldn't have issues with Base Gun. However, how does this change anything about the scaling when it's just a statement about Base Gun in HFG's scaling and him being superior to Johan?

This statement was said after HFBD before he got kidnapped, so obviously Tom was talking about HFBD Gun, in that case. Ryuhei would scale to this.

 

[CatLover313]

This statement was said after HFBD before he got kidnapped, so obviously Tom was talking about HFBD Gun, in that case. Ryuhei would scale to this.

Literally makes no sense for him to not go FP against Gun. He even used UI copy over CQC in HFG against base Gun so both should be relative and adrenaline isn't even much of a stat boost either, UI Copy should be relative to CQC. And again, it's narritively true. Why would Johan hold back an attack 3x powerful against Gun?

Adrenaline Gun destroyed CQC Johan and could do the same with UI Copy too. But UI copy was able to beat base injured Gun, seeing how badly he lost again Ad Gun u can't really compare because in both cases they'd loose against AD Gun EVEN WITH CQC as per Tom's statement...below 5% chance. So base Gun should scale to this.

On the timeline part "after HFBD before he got kidnapped" doesn't work. After HFBD, Johan was stuck in the first affiliate for an unknown stretch of time, and it's only after he's freed that the Hunt for Gun arc takes place. So Tom's statement has to be placed post-HFBD and pre-Hunt for Gun at the earliest. If you do want to place this before HFBD, then you can't say the 5% includes CQC since Johan only learned and mastered CQC after his fight with Manager Kim in HFBD. So whichever Gun, Tom was referencing, it wasn't the weaker HFBD-era Gun.

"Why would Johan hold back an attack 3x powerful" only works if UI Copy and CQC are two points on the same scale (like UI Copy is just "CQC, but bigger"). That's exactly what's being disputed here, not something you can assume to make your point. If they're different types of power-ups (a burst technique vs. a full transformation, like what I'm saying) rather than the same thing at different sizes, then "he should've just used the stronger one" doesn't apply because techniques can get chosen for more reasons than raw output, especially since UI Copy can be used with other techniques too, so it's not that simple.

Also, you're claiming Adrenaline barely boosts Gun's stats, but that's needs its own backing. If Adrenaline actually is a meaningful boost, then Adrenaline Gun and base Gun aren't close in power at all, which means CQC losing to Adrenaline Gun and UI Copy beating base Gun still isn't a fair comparison. You'd just be comparing a form boost against a strong opponent to a different technique against a much weaker one. And even if Adrenaline turns out to be minor, that still doesn't save the comparison because CQC didn't just lose to Gun, it lost badly enough that Johan had to unlock Path to avoid getting destroyed. That's not "CQC slightly underperformed," that's "CQC failed outright in that specific fight." Whatever margin Adrenaline is or isn't providing, it doesn't change the fact that Johan was completely outmatched in that encounter

Going back to "you need a separate CRT for something that's been blatantly stated to be Johan's FP", multipliers on this wiki are treated strictly, and equating one form/technique as definitively above another, requires its own CRT with direct supporting scans, not just a general "it's obviously his strongest" impression. "Blatant" is just your subjective interpretation and it's not an accepted standard until it's actually been through that process. So while I won't say you need to make a separate CRT, you need to at least have a portion on this post (and title) saying why it should be accepted, because it's not something that can just be glossed over. Especially if your CRT scaling upgrades are going to be related heavily to said multiplier. (UI Copy Mode)

 

[CatLover313]

This statement was said after HFBD before he got kidnapped, so obviously Tom was talking about HFBD Gun, in that case. Ryuhei would scale to this.

Also, something I realized and just had a question about (but Idc too much about the timeline placement so it's just a question, not a point of argument), what Johan Arc (from the Lookism timeline) do you believe appeared in Questism?