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Low 4-C & 6-C (Powerpuff Girls)

Kyleb79

Kyleb79

1,666
275
Alright, just a short thread. But realistically shouldn't all the characters scale to Low 4-C? It was a mere gesture that HIM did on what feat he scales too. His own power reverted it casually, and the girls have taken punishment from his attacks before, heck numerous times in the episode The Beatles. Even if that isn't the case, shouldn't HIM physically be downgraded to 6-C, since his attacks can be shrugged off by the main characters?

If there is a thread on why the scaling shouldn't happen, please alert me with it.

Edit: From the thread, we have now presented new things, opinions have changed and I am now deciding to make a full-on CRT.

Debunking the Former Arguments That Said The Girls Don't Scale to HIM:

"In Octi Evil, HIM's first appearance, the girls don't fight him. They just foil his plan."
I need to rewatch this episode again, but if I remember correctly. HIM possesses Bubbles toy "Octi" and it's evident that he was possessing the entire thing as he's inside it when controlling it. HIM restrained Bubbles when possessing the thing, so it is evident that HIM is more powerful. Though Blossom and Buttercup apparently pull out Bubbles from HIM's grip, while it isn't that direct. I can't see a 6-C grabbing someone and releasing their grip from someone who is Low 4-C.

"In Telephonies, when the Gangreen Gang prank the girls to get them to attack HIM, unlike assaulting him as they did with Mojo Jojo and Fuzzy, Blossom apprehensively asks if he was doing anything evil while HIM is completely unconcerned by their presence. When he denies doing anything, they leave as quickly as possible."
This is taken extremely out of context. For the entire episode, Gangreen Gang were pranking the girls into believing that Mojo Jojo and Fuzzy were committing crimes (With the Mayor's voice), after giving both a beatdown they realized it was a false alarm and gave them both a beating for no reason. Obviously, they had doubts and they even stated it, though when they heard it was HIM and thought he wasn't joking so they left to his home. Though after busting in and finding HIM exercising, they were just awkward and saying if he did anything evil. HIM is unconcerned with a threat cause the Girls just randomly busted in his house, and the "Leave as quickly as possible" isn't the case, cause they were asking him if he did anything evil and seemed confused and that's really it. Also it's evident that right after they didn't believe when the Mayor actually asked the Girls that there was a fight going on, so that should explain why the Girls didn't immediately attack him.

On a side and important note, in the same episode. HIM, Mojo Jojo, and Fuzzy Lumpkins find out that they got prank-called and actually fought with the Ganggreen gang. Obviously, it wasn't a challenge for the 3. As they quickly gained an upper hand, though the Gangreen gang took an eye blast laser beam from HIM (They were apparently easily vulnerable to being beaten by the three right after). As well as Ace taking a straight-up kick by HIM, and getting slammed into the ground by HIM. While it's unlikely HIM was out of kill them rather teach them a lesson. I don't see that as holding back your attacks, rather just deciding not to kill them. You can beat someone up but not have an intention to kill them.

"In Tough Love, HIM mind controls everyone into hating the PPG, forcing the girls to beat everyone up to snap them out of it. After they do so, he basically just laughs at them and leaves."
Yeah, that's basically what happens.

"Birthday Bash has HIM giving the girls a giant, killer pi├▒ata as a birthday present aaaand...that's it."
Pretty much, though it's implied he did this through his own power. Not much to argue here.

"In Speed Demon, the girls accidentally travel to the future, where HIM has taken over Earth in their absence. They attack him in rage, but HIM just lets them punch him, taunting them as the girls grow tired and he takes no damage whatsoever. He then becomes giant, taunts them more by using their friends and family, and sends them fleeing back to the present."
I explained this earlier in my thread. We have Negative Feelings Empowerment on his page where he essentially gets more powerful after feeding off negative emotions, and he had 50 years of negative feelings to feed on from everyone on Earth (Where he took over the entire world and turned everyone into basically negative zombies) Which is easily a major amp.

"In Moral Decay, Buttercup was implied to have knocked out one of HIM's teeth, offscreen. However, like with every other villain in the episode, she does this by barging in and sucker-punching them while they're at home. At the end of the episode, they all beat her senseless."
This is easily the girls scaling to HIM still. In every scene in the episode, she does this by punching them right in the face and knocking their teeth out. If they were off-guard, I highly doubt there's any chance HIM could've held back anyhow, especially when he's clearly upset in the aftermath. I think it's also implied he took them down anyhow, as she does this to everyone in the episode by incapacitating them.

"Meet the Beat-Alls has the girls actually damage HIM, near the end. However, in this same episode, HIM ends up in prison (which is something that has NEVER happened before and NEVER happens after), making the episode an extreme low showing for him."
He only goes to prison cause he's incapacitated. Realistically if you're enemy is defeated that should be able to happen. Add that HIM very likely just broke out of prison right after he recovered, as he wasn't even able to move when he was thrown in prison. The main reason he was defeated so easily was due to being surprised that the Girls shrugged off his, Fuzzy's, and Princess's attacks (Cause originally he, Princess, and Fuzzy knocked them out together). The entire episode, HIM was blasting an acid laser (His own power) right at the girl, which restrained them though it's unknown how long, though they were fully restrained when Mojo Jojo and Princess fired their attacks. That should be the Girls scaling to HIM in a way.

"All Chalked Up simply has Bubbles foil his scheme."
Like Tough Love, yeah pretty much.

"Him Diddle Riddle is nothing but HIM and the Professor making a bet."
Yep.

"I'm pretty sure Power-noia is what's mainly being used for this scaling, since the girls beat HIM until he begs them to stop. However, there's a HUGE caveat. All of this happens in a nightmare, and occurs because they get over their fears, making HIM lose his power."
While in the dream, it does show that the Girls are portrayed as being as powerful as they're normally. Being able to defeat giant monsters, having super strength, super speed. So this is rather more of a possibility, that HIM is possibly as powerful as he is in real life. Though given the lack of implications, this is correct that this isn't a direct scaling with HIM and the Girls.

"In The Boys are Back in Tow, HIM is portrayed as SO powerful, he not only revives the dead Rowdyruff Boys (who are equal to the PPG), but also makes them immune to what killed them in the first place."
In the same episode, HIM doesn't even try to fight the girls head-on when he wants to destroy them. He also could've revived the Rowdyruff Boys in any way he could've. It's even shown that when the Rowdyruff Boys originally died, the original things that made them were left behind, which HIM could've just put it in Chemical X. This could've been done in a variety of ways that it's impossible to say that he's "far superior that his mere power recreates them" when it could've been done in any alternative way that we could know of. As well as what killed them in the first place was kisses, he just used masculinity to make him immune to it (Implied when they were defeated when their masculinity being threatened was the exact opposite when the girls tried to kiss them again)

"Out of all of these, there's only one which would really scale the girls to HIM (Meet the Beat-Alls, which is a huge low showing for HIM, all around), and another that would only imply they scale if we're being extremely generous (Moral Decay). All this considered, I really don't know if the girls should straight upscale to HIM, especially since his Low 4-C feat already comes from an episode in a later season, which is where he's portrayed as most powerful."
The Meet the Beat-Alls should technically be already taken as a feat, cause there's nothing to justify that HIM can't be harmed on the level he was shown, and the power he was shown. He was still capable of restraining the girls with his mouth acid blast, and restraining Bubbles while possessing a toy, portraying him as superior. So that's scaling from HIM. Moral Decay is a straight-up implication of a direct feat, cause she straight up punched him in the face and knocked his teeth out, as shown she did that to everyone in the episode. The Girls should scale to HIM, but not upscale from him. Though the Girls should easily far upscale from his extremely very casual hand gesture feat that required no focus, struggle, or effort whatsoever. Also in the later season, the Girls are still shown being able to trade blows with him in the Finale (The Powerpuff Girls Rule!)

(I'll finish the rest tomorrow)
 
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HIM is actually a character astronomically more powerful than the PPG and every other character in the show and literally just toys with them whenever they fight.
 
I mean in the Beatles, didn't he literally have a full-on motive to eliminate them?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
HIM is actually a character astronomically more powerful than the PPG and every other character in the show and literally just toys with them whenever they fight.
Click to expand...
Is there a statement he is that much more powerful just asking? Since the way I see it, is HIM toying with their emotions with his Hax, since that seems to be his plan to cause utter chaos. There are episodes that hint HIM, could destroy the Earth with his Hax (An example like Custody Battle). Though I don't remember an implication where HIM held back against the Girls in a confrontation.
 
I mean... said attack was done by breathing on them and the girls seemed to fall right out of the sky because of it. Looks like HIM was still toying with the girls to me.
 
It was an attack that used the entire episode to incapacitate the PPG (Which he was accompanied by Mojo Jojo Blasters, Morbucks Blasters, and a rock throw by Fuzzy). In context, the attack was supposed to incapacitate them, and I'd take a laser-powered attack coming out of his mouth, over a casual wave with his hand. Heck, it was the attack HIM was going to use, to end them (According to his words).
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
So if im getting it right, you're saying that HIM would've needed at least a powerful attack in order to destroy them?
Click to expand...
Depends on the attack. The one he was using in the episode was powerful enough to torture and restrain (For an unknown amount of time), though he had to keep the beam on in order to keep them restrained. It's hard to calculate, since Mojo Jojo, and Morbucks were helping him restrain and incapacitate them while doing so. Though, to say the least. I'd say it's enough to be scaled to Low 4-C, unless there's a statement that says HIM holds back the power of his attacks (Cause it's likely he just likes using his Hax to his liking in a form of toying in his other episodes).
 
Kinda agree. HIM is much stronger, but based on what I remember from watching the show, they are able to somewhat keep up with him, so they should scale. The fact he had some form of effort holding them when his Low 4-C feat was extremely casual, means they should scale, especially when that feat he required help.
 
Kyleb79 said:
Depends on the attack. The one he was using in the episode was powerful enough to torture and restrain (For an unknown amount of time), though he had to keep the beam on in order to keep them restrained. It's hard to calculate, since Mojo Jojo, and Morbucks were helping him restrain and incapacitate them while doing so. Though, to say the least. I'd say it's enough to be scaled to Low 4-C, unless there's a statement that says HIM holds back the power of his attacks (Cause it's likely he just likes using his Hax to his liking in a form of toying in his other episodes).
Click to expand...
Hmm. It sounds like they should scale then, to me at least.

HIM still remains far stronger but the fact he needs to keep a continuous attack on them to do that, and he needed help from others to contribute to this, should say the girls are in the same realm of power as HIM is and are not so beneath him that its incomparable.
 
JJSliderman said:
There was that one time in the dream episode where the girls beat the crap out of HIM, does that count.
Click to expand...
Probably not, but there are other times where they managed to injure HIM. In The Beat Alls episode, the PPG's beat him hard enough for him to be incapacitated and look ruffed up, and it was implied to be rather quickly (That could be due to HIM in a suprised state). Buttercup attacking HIM off-screen and supposedly defeating him and knocking out his tooth in the process (Could also be since he was off-guard since he was supposedly in his house). In the intro where Buttercup sends HIM flying with a kick. As well as The Powerpuff Girls rule where Blossom kicked HIM and sent him flying as well as knocking his tooth out.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Hmm. It sounds like they should scale then, to me at least.

HIM still remains far stronger but the fact he needs to keep a continuous attack on them to do that, and he needed help from others to contribute to this, should say the girls are in the same realm of power as HIM is and are not so beneath him that its incomparable.
Click to expand...
Not really, the PPG's have shrugged off attacks from characters who have tanked their attacks like nothing. The PPG's have strong willpower, evident by how they can shrug off attacks from much stronger enemies.
 
Kyleb79 said:
Not really, the PPG's have shrugged off attacks from characters who have tanked their attacks like nothing. The PPG's have strong willpower, evident by how they can shrug off attacks from much stronger enemies.
Click to expand...
Im confused by what you mean here. Im agreeing with you.
 
I know Azathoth was the one who made the original downgrade thread with HIM being leagues above the cast being the primary reason. But anyway, HIM uses reality warping and the like to do his Tier 4 feats and his durability and striking strength are rated as Unknown. But as others shown, he has often been able to knock the girls out just with a simple blowing on them.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know Azathoth was the one who made the original downgrade thread with HIM being leagues above the cast being the primary reason. But anyway, HIM uses reality warping and the like to do his Tier 4 feats and his durability and striking strength are rated as Unknown. But as others shown, he has often been able to knock the girls out just with a simple blowing on them.
Click to expand...
It should be noted that even if we ignore the upgrade. HIM has traded blows physically with Blossom at least on one occasion, and has took punishment, making him physically at least 6-C. As well as destroying the Gang Green Gang who can harm the PPG.

Also it should be noted that his feat is scaled from power rather than Hax. If I remember correctly it was telekinesis, which is power. The simple blowing wasn’t a simple blowing. It’s a literal laser beam coming out of his mouth which should be his power. There’s another occasion where the Gang Green gang took his laser eye beams.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know Azathoth was the one who made the original downgrade thread with HIM being leagues above the cast being the primary reason. But anyway, HIM uses reality warping and the like to do his Tier 4 feats and his durability and striking strength are rated as Unknown. But as others shown, he has often been able to knock the girls out just with a simple blowing on them.
Click to expand...
I fail to see how that tier 4 feat was done just by hax instead of power (his telekinesis)
 
Being some tier physically and some other tier being via the more reality-warping, random powers he has still means it was his power that did so, it just doesn't scale to how hard he can punch someone.
Kyleb79 said:
I mean in the Beatles, didn't he literally have a full-on motive to eliminate them?
Click to expand...
I was suspicious over that and looked it up. He also goes to jail in that episode and the girls get harmed by Fuzzy throwing a rock at them, he walks around with that rock being ready to use it against the girls. And needless to say it goes against other cases with less reasons to have PIS like when they go to the future, attack HIM all at once and he just laughs.
 
Eficiente said:
I was suspicious over that and looked it up. He also goes to jail in that episode and the girls get harmed by Fuzzy throwing a rock at them, he walks around with that rock being ready to use it against the girls. And needless to say it goes against other cases with less reasons to have PIS like when they go to the future, attack HIM all at once and he just laughs.
Click to expand...
It can be assumed the rock throw exerts more strength than his average blows. Since it's him throwing a large rock onto them with his own strength. It should be noted they were incapacitated only due to assistance from Morbucks Blasters, HIM's Lasers, and Mojo's Blasters, since it's implied they would've shrugged off the rock with ease.

I'd like to point out about Speed Demon. We have on their profile "Negative Feelings Empowerment" which is when he feeds off hatred, fear, pain to get more powerful. Which would technically mean he was amped up for roughly around 50 years of negative energy since he said he easily took over Earth when the PPG were gone (The Townsville people were basically the definition of negative, so realistically the rest of the world under his control, should be the same). Even then the Girls could still knock him back and even send him flying when the girls were bloodlust, though it could be likely that he was just invulnerable to injuries and pain at that point. His True Form is featless, though can be assumed he is far more powerful than his original counterpart.
 
I was suspicious at first too, but then Kyleb pointed out the Negative Feelings Empowerment, and my opinion started to sway. I used to think that Speed Demon was just HIM flexing as hard as he possibly could on the girls when he tanked their attacks to the point where they were physically exhausted, but because this was a future where HIM had every opportunity to have a literal buffet of pain and suffering, I think I'm starting to lean towards Low 4-C girls/Mojo/Princess/etc.
 
Since no one is responding, I'll make what Attack potency and Durability will look like, if they do get the Low 4-C upgrade.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know Azathoth was the one who made the original downgrade thread with HIM being leagues above the cast being the primary reason. But anyway, HIM uses reality warping and the like to do his Tier 4 feats and his durability and striking strength are rated as Unknown. But as others shown, he has often been able to knock the girls out just with a simple blowing on them.
Click to expand...
I looked at the thread myself, and I'll comment on the former reasons for why it was downgraded in the first place.


"In Octi Evil, HIM's first appearance, the girls don't fight him. They just foil his plan."
I need to rewatch this episode again, but if I remember correctly. HIM possesses Bubbles toy "Octi" and it's evident that he was possessing the entire thing as he's inside it when controlling it. HIM restrained Bubbles when possessing the thing, so it is evident that HIM is more powerful. Though Blossom and Buttercup apparently pull out Bubbles from HIM's grip, while it isn't that direct. I can't see a 6-C grabbing someone and releasing their grip from someone who is Low 4-C.

"In Telephonies, when the Gangreen Gang prank the girls to get them to attack HIM, unlike assaulting him as they did with Mojo Jojo and Fuzzy, Blossom apprehensively asks if he was doing anything evil while HIM is completely unconcerned by their presence. When he denies doing anything, they leave as quickly as possible."
This is taken extremely out of context. For the entire episode, Gangreen Gang were pranking the girls into believing that Mojo Jojo and Fuzzy were committing crimes (With the Mayor's voice), after giving both a beatdown they realized it was a false alarm and gave them both a beating for no reason. Obviously, they had doubts and they even stated it, though when they heard it was HIM and thought he wasn't joking so they left to his home. Though after busting in and finding HIM exercising, they were just awkward and saying if he did anything evil. HIM is unconcerned with a threat cause the Girls just randomly busted in his house, and the "Leave as quickly as possible" isn't the case, cause they were asking him if he did anything evil and seemed confused and that's really it. Also it's evident that right after they didn't believe when the Mayor actually asked the Girls that there was a fight going on, so that should explain why the Girls didn't immediately attack him.

On a side and important note, in the same episode. HIM, Mojo Jojo, and Fuzzy Lumpkins find out that they got prank-called and actually fought with the Ganggreen gang. Obviously, it wasn't a challenge for the 3. As they quickly gained an upper hand, though the Gangreen gang took an eye blast laser beam from HIM (They were apparently easily vulnerable to being beaten by the three right after). As well as Ace taking a straight-up kick by HIM, and getting slammed into the ground by HIM. While it's unlikely HIM was out of kill them rather teach them a lesson. I don't see that as holding back your attacks, rather just deciding not to kill them.

"In Tough Love, HIM mind controls everyone into hating the PPG, forcing the girls to beat everyone up to snap them out of it. After they do so, he basically just laughs at them and leaves."
Yeah, that's basically what happens.

"Birthday Bash has HIM giving the girls a giant, killer pi├▒ata as a birthday present aaaand...that's it."
Pretty much, though it's implied he did this through his own power.

"In Speed Demon, the girls accidentally travel to the future, where HIM has taken over Earth in their absence. They attack him in rage, but HIM just lets them punch him, taunting them as the girls grow tired and he takes no damage whatsoever. He then becomes giant, taunts them more by using their friends and family, and sends them fleeing back to the present."
I explained this earlier in my thread. We have Negative Feelings Empowerment on his page where he essentially gets more powerful after feeding off negative emotions, and he had 50 years of negative feelings to feed on from everyone on Earth (Where he took over the entire world and turned everyone into basically negative zombies) Which is easily a major amp.

"In Moral Decay, Buttercup was implied to have knocked out one of HIM's teeth, offscreen. However, like with every other villain in the episode, she does this by barging in and sucker-punching them while they're at home. At the end of the episode, they all beat her senseless."
This is easily a Low 4-C feat still. In every scene in the episode, she does this by punching them right in the face and knocking their teeth out. If they were off-guard, I highly doubt there's any chance HIM could've held back anyhow, especially when he's clearly upset in the aftermath. I think it's also implied he took them down anyhow, as she does this to everyone in the episode by incapacitating them.

"Meet the Beat-Alls has the girls actually damage HIM, near the end. However, in this same episode, HIM ends up in prison (which is something that has NEVER happened before and NEVER happens after), making the episode an extreme low showing for him."
He only goes to prison cause he's incapacitated. Realistically if you're enemy is defeated that should be able to happen. Add that HIM very likely just broke out of prison right after he recovered, as he wasn't even able to move when he was thrown in prison. The main reason he was defeated so easily was due to being surprised that the Girls shrugged off his, Fuzzy's, and Princess's attacks (Cause originally he, Princess, and Fuzzy knocked them out together). The entire episode, HIM was blasting an acid laser (His own power) right at the girl, which restrained them though it's unknown how long, though they were fully restrained when Mojo Jojo and Princess fired their attacks. That should be Low 4-C.

"All Chalked Up simply has Bubbles foil his scheme."
Like Tough Love, yeah pretty much.

"Him Diddle Riddle is nothing but HIM and the Professor making a bet."
Yep.

"I'm pretty sure Power-noia is what's mainly being used for this scaling, since the girls beat HIM until he begs them to stop. However, there's a HUGE caveat. All of this happens in a nightmare, and occurs because they get over their fears, making HIM lose his power."
While in the dream, it does show that the Girls are portrayed as being as powerful as they're normally. Being able to defeat giant monsters, having super strength, super speed. So this is rather more of a possibility, that HIM is possibly as powerful as he is in real life. Though given the lack of implications, this is correct that this isn't a direct Low 4-C feat.

"In The Boys are Back in Tow, HIM is portrayed as SO powerful, he not only revives the dead Rowdyruff Boys (who are equal to the PPG), but also makes them immune to what killed them in the first place."
In the same episode, HIM doesn't even try to fight the girls head-on when he wants to destroy them. He also could've revived the Rowdyruff Boys in any way he could've. It's even shown that when the Rowdyruff Boys originally died, the original things that made them were left behind, which HIM could've just put it in Chemical X. This could've been done in a variety of ways that it's impossible to say that he's "far superior that his mere power recreates them" when it could've been done in any alternative way that we could know of. As well as what killed them in the first place was kisses, he just used masculinity to make him immune to it (Implied when they were defeated when their masculinity being threatened was the exact opposite when the girls tried to kiss them again)

"Out of all of these, there's only one which would really scale the girls to HIM (Meet the Beat-Alls, which is a huge low showing for HIM, all around), and another that would only imply they scale if we're being extremely generous (Moral Decay). All this considered, I really don't know if the girls should straight upscale to HIM, especially since his Low 4-C feat already comes from an episode in a later season, which is where he's portrayed as most powerful."
The Meet the Beat-Alls should technically be already taken as a feat, cause there's nothing to justify that HIM can't be harmed on the level he was shown, and the power he was shown. He was still capable of restraining the girls with his mouth acid blast, and restraining Bubbles while possessing a toy, portraying him as superior. So that's Low 4-C. Moral Decay is a straight-up implication of a Low 4-C feat, cause she straight up punched him in the face and knocked his teeth out, as shown she did that to everyone in the episode. The Girls should scale to HIM, but not upscale from him. Though the Girls should easily far upscale from his extremely very casual hand gesture feat that required no focus, struggle, or effort whatsoever. Also in the later season, the Girls are still shown being able to trade blows with him in the Finale (The Powerpuff Girls Rule!)
 
Also if anyone has statements or implications that HIM is canonically more powerful, share it with me. So we can apply it to the thread.
 
Ok, I do have a few more things as well.

HIM attack speed is scaled off Moon/Mercury-Earth distance, to calculate the KE due to The Speed Of Light and above not being possible for Kinetic Energy. Though realistically shouldn't the speed be scaled off the fastest possible thing an object can move to get the closest results to the original FTL+ feat (Unless the FTL, highest speed possible travel has been rejected).

In the Whoopass Show (The Original Version of The Powerpuff Girls), the Girls flew to the Sun in 10 seconds. Though it's unknown how canon it was since they apparently killed the Amoeba Boys which they are still alive in the actual show and not violent criminals as portrayed in the Whoopass version. (The scaling is very inconsistent considering the average feats they scale to)
 
Kyleb79 said:
I looked at the thread myself, and I'll comment on the former reasons for why it was downgraded in the first place.


"In Octi Evil, HIM's first appearance, the girls don't fight him. They just foil his plan."
I need to rewatch this episode again, but if I remember correctly. HIM possesses Bubbles toy "Octi" and it's evident that he was possessing the entire thing as he's inside it when controlling it. HIM restrained Bubbles when possessing the thing, so it is evident that HIM is more powerful. Though Blossom and Buttercup apparently pull out Bubbles from HIM's grip, while it isn't that direct. I can't see a 6-C grabbing someone and releasing their grip from someone who is Low 4-C.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, the original downgrade for the Girls not scaling to HIM is this thread.
 
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