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Lucifer Morningstar vs The Star Maker

BleedingPeach

BleedingPeach

948
213
Now... I know both verses since I read Lucifer's graphic novel and the book about The Maker

What I want is that people debate the result.

In this fight the Creative Mode is used
71mps1eI4kL
I thought of "us" with calm interest and a kind of amused anguish.

Lucifer Evil
A man outside the pla
 
o_O I thought Lucifer will fight it with a little more dignity. Would be fairer if The Presence would be the one?
 
Wasn't this version of the star maker Atleast 1-A supposedly

If not then I could see this going other way tbfh
 
The thing is that Samael could define the whole thing about Overvoid, but he needed that somebody created him. Later, the thing is that he is bounded by his wings in power terms (referring to the time when he was in death match against Amenadiel).
 
This is the perfect chance to show how powerful Samael is. We know the Ultimate Spirit breaks him, Michael, Gabriel or even Yahveh, but I want to know how to express his power in threads.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
>Makes star maker fight Tenma
>Thinks Lucifer is fair
Click to expand...
No, no, no... I know Samael will have to make a book about The Maker. (Ultimate Spirit). What I want is to know how would he break Yato and the Creative Mode.
 
what will yato do to him

Father time already has 1-A time hax and he is still way below Lucifer and shouldn't be able to dent him lol by any means

Inb4 "stat difference"
 
@Hykuu 1-A is based on levels of transcendence, not hax. Now for the fight...

To my knowledge, Lucifer is above baseline by a few levels of transcendence from scaling above other 1-A characters in verse.

The Star Makeasike I proved in the fights that he was in against the guys from Shinza Bansho, is also a handful of levels above baseline 1-A.

I don't know, however, if their levels are equal.
 
Depending on how you interpret what's written as a level of transcendence, you would get 4 or 5 at most.

Again, I don't know Luci's though.
 
Proof higher Star Maker then. Like, Warren at least provided reasoning, i just hear the same chewed jumbo from the opposition.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
No, 5 is a Massive Lowball. You really hate The Star Maker don't you?
Click to expand...
No, I don't hate the character or the verse.

What I hate, is that you wank a character even when you are told otherwise.

I guess I'll have to explain why The Star Maker is not infinite levels of transcendence again.

Here's my post that explains how transcendence works:

"Each cosmos is an undefinably greater than the last. Each creation in the infinite cosmoses that are created is not infinitely greater or transcendent of the previous creations, just an indeterminately larger and greater.

I'll explain using Taikyoku values because of their simplistic way of measuring transcendence.

A difference of one Taikyoku value is a difference of transcendence. A person with a Taikyoku value of 2 transcends a person with a value of 1. It is as simple as that.

Infinite Transcendence would be like this:

1--oo One to Infinity.

If each creation is an unknowable amount greater than the last then it would be something along the lines of this:

1.1, 1.01, 1.001, 1.0001, ..., 2.0 One to Two.

It's not that each Cosmos is transcendent of one another, it that with there being an infinite hierarchy of larger and larger cosmoses, it would equal a level of transcendence, not an infinite amount of them.

What makes it an infinite transcendence?"

"My argument is that the infinite hierarchy of cosmoses isn't transcendental. Each cosmos doesn't transcend on an outerversal level the one that came before it. Each cosmos is only undefinable greater, bigger, and more complex than the last. That's not a level of outerversal transcendence.

So the statement that is perpetrated throughout the wiki that, "The Star Maker is beyond infinite levels of outerversal transcendence because he is greater than the Ultimate Cosmos which is greater than the infinite hierarchy of cosmoses" is, in fact, false.

And in a fight dealing with outerversal beings, the level of transcendence is all that matters, not hax or intelligence, or anything else.

The Star Maker does not have infinite transcendence above baseline 1-A. In said blog, the infinite hierarchy is stated to be like:

"Every cosmos that I had hitherto observed now turned out to be a single example of a myriad-fold class, like a biological species, or the class of all the atoms of a single element. The internal life of each "atomic" cosmos had seemingly the same kind of relevance (and the same kind of irrelevance) to the life of the ultimate cosmos as the events within a brain cell, or in one of its atoms, to the life of a human mind."

The bolded statement supports my understanding.

Each cosmos gets undefinably greater and more complex, and the difference between the Infinite Hierarchy to the Ultimate Cosmos is seemingly comparable (via using similar wording) to the difference between the Creative Mode and the Ultimate Spirit, as shown with this quote, "an atom of its infinite potentiality".

And the difference that is insinuated is a single difference of transcendence above baseline 1-A, not an infinite difference.

The Infinite Hierarchy starts at baseline 1-A to a single level of transcendence above it. The Ultimate Cosmos is likely another level higher. The Creative Mode is possibly a level higher than the Ultimate Cosmos, its greatest creation. And the Ultimate Spirit seems to be a level higher than the Creative Mode.

All in all, the Star Maker is only about 4 or 5 levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A"
 
Warren Valion said:
@Hykuu 1-A is based on levels of transcendence, not hax. Now for the fight...

To my knowledge, Lucifer is above baseline by a few levels of transcendence from scaling above other 1-A characters in verse.

The Star Makeasike I proved in the fights that he was in against the guys from Shinza Bansho, is also a handful of levels above baseline 1-A.

I don't know, however, if their levels are equal.
Click to expand...
Lucifer is above that lol Ill post a explanation later
 
If what Zach said lead The Maker to a "Varies, up to 1-A" or "High 1-B, likely 1-A" then this fight is a stomp.
 
Well, we don't know what the tier would be for Star Maker from Azzy's revisions if they are even happening in the first place.

So, @ZacharyGrossman273, do you got a link to where this was discussed?
 
Actually, one thing that I've talk with DarkLK he said that "(one friend) believes that there is no hierarchy of dimensionless spaces with a qualitative difference. And that the Star Maker is somewhere not very far from the baseline". With that said maybe The Maker is not very above baseline.
 
Personally: I think The Maker can defeat Yahveh's son, but I want to know the opinion of Hykuu. A thing that can make an infinite amount of cosmoses, dimensional and non-dimensional, I would say that Lucifer can't reach it.
 
ugh

I'll just make a thread regarding this later


I am going to go in about 20 minutes and I am busy with several things
 
Bump.

With that said... The Maker in the Creative Mode is likely a inexistent "being" without a physiology. I've made a CRT for that, but I think Lucifer would be very cautious about its non-existence. Since he can't interact with that kind of "entities", I can say that even on the Creative Mode, Samael can't take him down
 
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