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Lucifer Non Physical Interaction

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I disagree. Like a lot.
Robo said:
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This is completely figurative. The reason why he even encounters death is because he dies against the Basanos. Like just look at the statement that was made upon their encounter (issue 25).
“From birth to death how small our circuits are. How unerringly we find the paths that unmake us. Even we who call ourselves immortal”
Click to expand...

Additionally, when Elaine came to save him while he was dead, look at the statement she makes (issue 26).
“To be his savior, to bring him life”
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This is only further reinforced by the statement Melos makes about lucifer after he sent Elaine to go save him (issue 26)
“I considered more dramatic methods but I needed you alive”
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All of these are stark contradictions to Lucifer being a type 5 immortal.
Robo said:
Lucifer withheld Death from his creation (Lucifer vol 1 issue 16)
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That just means he made them immortal. This does not apply to himself, and besides, in this context, it was probably only type 1 immortality because in just a few scenes after that I vividly remember lucifer killing them.
Robo said:
Lucifer is older than the angel of death and greater (Lucifer vol 1 issue 2)

Lucifer existed before Death (Lucifer vol 1 chapter 26)
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These 2 points aren’t enough for Type 5 even whilst ignoring the contradictions.
Robo said:
When the titans ascended into godhood, death had no grasp over them (Lucifer vol 1 issue 43) and Lucifer is Yahweh's will.
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Death not having a grasp on them is not that same thing as not having a concept of death. Being immortal by definition means that you don’t die. Thus, death would not have a grasp on any type of immortal. It’s not something that is exclusive to Type 5. In the titan’s case, it’s more than likely type 3 cus they regenerated to stay immortal.
 
catzlaflame said:
I disagree. Like a lot.

This is completely figurative. The reason why he even encounters death is because he dies against the Basanos. Like just look at the statement that was made upon their encounter (issue 25).


Additionally, when Elaine came to save him while he was dead, look at the statement she makes (issue 26).

This is only further reinforced by the statement Melos makes about lucifer after he sent Elaine to go save him (issue 26)


All of these are stark contradictions to Lucifer being a type 5 immortal.

That just means he made them immortal. This does not apply to himself, and besides, in this context, it was probably only type 1 immortality because in just a few scenes after that I vividly remember lucifer killing them.

These 2 points aren’t enough for Type 5 even whilst ignoring the contradictions.

Death not having a grasp on them is not that same thing as not having a concept of death. Being immortal by definition means that you don’t die. Thus, death would not have a grasp on any type of immortal. It’s not something that is exclusive to Type 5. In the titan’s case, it’s more than likely type 3 cus they regenerated to stay immortal.
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man.

IMG_2287.jpg


Do you agree with Non Physical Interaction tho?
 
Robo said:
does death-life TD 1 give you immunity to life and death manip? no more other immunities?
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Ofc. You are not just immune and superior to the effects of death and life. You are immune and superior to any effect covered by the concepts of death and life, and depending on the context in the verse, it may include extra dualities in death and life, or it may cover many different things.

In that case, you would be superior to them as well.
 
Georredannea15 said:
It's basically enough that it's independent of its effects and unaffected. Transcendence is a safer version of it. And I just answered the question he asked me.
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This is literally no proof of being independent.

The statement in question is more metaphorical to state that he is no longer under his influence.
 
Robo said:
i have a new argument for immo 5

cant he have transduality type 1 and immo 5 at the same time? he escaped the presence's plan which contains life and death
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like a combo between this scan and this one ?
…Our father has a plan and both death and life are a part of it
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I’m happy to see you here, outside my plan
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See but it would still be contradicted by the fact that he straight up dies… also, wether or not this qualifies for TD1 is questionable. Looking back, I’m pretty sure I tried to argue this once and it got rejected.
 
I don't get this, Lucifer can't technically die. The whole point to the Purgatorio storyline is to test that if he was in such situation.

Death herself mentions “When will she get this chance ever again?” Yahweh himself is deathless and his extension “Lucifer” should be as well. An aspect of infinity is still infinity and an aspect of eternal is eternity. He would straight up have to be erased from Existence which happened during Volume 3 but I hardly would find that reason because it's a spinoff(with a whole different twist) of the recent Sandman Universe and contradicts many things during Carey's run.
 
Robo said:
oh we're just talking about something completely different (immo 5)

do you agree with non physical interaction?
Click to expand...
It seems fine if we consider that Seviram or any demons are non-corporeal which would be obvious. However, they always seem to be anthropomorphic because Angels despite being “essence” dies to physical things as well as demons. Unless Lucifer will straight up go through them which could be the case because he can affect the physical and non-physical but that's just a guess. He certainly has the powers but I don't know if we saw him exercise them.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
It seems fine if we consider that Seviram or any demons are non-corporeal which would be obvious. However, they always seem to be anthropomorphic because Angels despite being “essence” dies to physical things as well as demons. Unless Lucifer will straight up go through them which could be the case because he can affect the physical and non-physical but that's just a guess. He certainly has the powers but I don't know if we saw him exercise them.
Click to expand...
im pretty sure creating a soul is enough for non physical interaction
 
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