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So Sun and Moon's pokedex entry for Machamp states that "it unleashes megaton-level punches that send opponents clear over the horizon". If we take megaton-level seriously, that should at the very least put Machamp at High 7-C or Low 7-B.
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Machamp Upgrade
- Thread starter VileShadows
- Start date
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Consistent, I support it.
Hawlucha and Hariyama also scale.
Hawlucha and Hariyama also scale.
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Well, he can push f***ing mountains with one arm, Low 7-B Machamp wouldn't be bad
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True, it could be an exaggeration, but so could a lot of other Pokedex entries, like Volcarona "replacing the sun" for example.
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His Mountain feat is a relative low ball considering the height used so this only further proves his other feats.Cropfist said:
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And that only 7-B+ShadowGamerOmega said:
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When someone says "Megaton" they usually mean force, not tons of TNT. Unless they were talking about an actual explosive, which they weren't, I don't see a reason to assume it means tons of TNT.
Also it's worth noting that a megaton of TNT would be less than a megatonne of TNT (minimum for small city level), but that's a much smaller issue.
Also it's worth noting that a megaton of TNT would be less than a megatonne of TNT (minimum for small city level), but that's a much smaller issue.
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True. It could very well just be Megatons of force, however Machamp being Low 7-B just seems to make more sense than 7-C due to it scaling to other city level Pokemon such as Volcarona, Dragonite, and Gyarados.Blahblah9755 said:
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Machamp is 7-C throgh a low balled feat if we were to use thw highend we would have a similar result aa this.
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Just looked at the calc. Yeah, I can agree with you on that one.RadicalMrR said:
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Yeah, I do think putting a range on his AP based on a low and high end for the mountain moving would be good, but upgrading based on this pokedex entry is a bad idea imo, since punches are generally measured in force, and there's nothing to indicate tons of TNT.RadicalMrR said:
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For the most part, I can appreciate how this wiki uses sources to come to a conclusion about the power of a certain being, however in pokemon, I consider the pokedex to be practically a joke when it comes to trying to make serious claims about power scaling. Magcargo is apparently nearly twice as hot as the surface of the sun, Regigigas towed the continents together... WITH ROPE, Cloysters shell cannot be opened with a bomb, what kind of bomb? Never specified, but for all intents and purposes, a ******* nuclear warhead couldn't break it open, or heck even fictional bombs that can destroy planets wouldn't crack it open. Gardevoir can just outright create black holes in order to defend its trainers, and somehow fails to destroy any galaxies that so happen to be in the near vacinity.
The point is that I don't agree with using a pokedex as a valid source of information, because whilst some give pretty understandable feats for the pokemon in question, there are some which are downright absurd. Now I can understand that pokemon doesn't really have any other examples of feats without the pokedex, but outside of legendaries, I think power scaling pokemon simply doesn't work.
The point is that I don't agree with using a pokedex as a valid source of information, because whilst some give pretty understandable feats for the pokemon in question, there are some which are downright absurd. Now I can understand that pokemon doesn't really have any other examples of feats without the pokedex, but outside of legendaries, I think power scaling pokemon simply doesn't work.
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@Kyo Zero Well, I think that we have rules about that the Pokedex has to be specific in order to scale from it, and do not count most black hole feats.
That said, I agree that Pokemon does not make any sense in terms of power-scaling, but the alternative would be to delete almost all the Pokemon profiles again, or to give them unknown statistics.
That said, I agree that Pokemon does not make any sense in terms of power-scaling, but the alternative would be to delete almost all the Pokemon profiles again, or to give them unknown statistics.
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@Kyo There is so many things wrong with it that I won't begin listing them. But TL;DR fiction in general has feats much more over the top than Pokédex feats, and they are the sole source of Info for a large amount of them.
Ignoring just because you find some feats "absurbd" (Even though half of what you said is NLF, wank or misintepretation) just doesn't work.
Ignoring just because you find some feats "absurbd" (Even though half of what you said is NLF, wank or misintepretation) just doesn't work.
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Hmmm due to the possibility that megatons means force instead, perhaps we should only use his other feat on that level? After all, this wouldn't change much.
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Surviving a "bomb" doesn't, in any way, imply you can survive a nuke or any kind of fictional bomb. It's just a vague feat. Even then, many Pokémon are about City level anyway.
Macargo being hotter than the sun is only City Block level, much lower than what the other Pokémon have for feats.
A blackhole isn't anywhere near powerful enough to destroy a galaxy, and we don't even know the size of Gardervoir's black holes.
Just seem like you exagerate those feats to try to claim them as being "absurd".
Macargo being hotter than the sun is only City Block level, much lower than what the other Pokémon have for feats.
A blackhole isn't anywhere near powerful enough to destroy a galaxy, and we don't even know the size of Gardervoir's black holes.
Just seem like you exagerate those feats to try to claim them as being "absurd".
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Actually, we do.Saikou The Lewd King said:
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The Pokken thing only vaguely looks like one. It's not confirmed to be the thing. At the very least, we can confirm it's not galaxy threatening in any way, and likely not a real black hole.
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But not really as they're not applicable to the actual handheld videogames, IIRC their size is only given in pokken.
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They probably are real black holes actually, as Gardevoir is supposed to create them by using its psychic powers to alter gravity, which is much more reliable than if it just vaguely "summoned" black holes.Saikou The Lewd King said:
Not like it scales to anyone, though, and most small black holes disappear after a relatively short period of time without sucking anything up, regardless.
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@Saikou Well... exactly, how strong is a bomb? I admit this probably might not have been the best example of a pokedex entry, but bare in mind this is coming off the top of my head, but for the sake of example it made sense as example of the pokedex not being the most... shall we say, reliable of sources?
The attack potency of Magcargo wasn't what I was going for, I was going for the more obvious point of "If this is taken literally then there would be very limited forms of life in the surrounding area where Magcargo decides to inhabit, and no human would be able to get up close to it as we often see", unless you want to scale every life form in pokemon to being able to withstand heat of such an insane degree (No pun intended), then I think this can be written off as questionable at best.
Actually, it wasn't until now that I even considered pokken to be a means of justifying Gardevoir using black holes being a valid feat, real or not, being able to create a black hole is scary, and ironically would probably be more dangerous to a trainer than the original threat in question is. Also side note, isn't the official definiton of a black hole "A region of space having a gravitational field so intense that no matter or radiation can escape." (Figured the first thing that came up on google will suffice), so how exactly can a black hole be scaled down to just city block level? Is it far more simple than I think it is? Granted me knowledge of black holes is limited, but I can't imagine it scales down that far whilst still being considered a black hole.
The attack potency of Magcargo wasn't what I was going for, I was going for the more obvious point of "If this is taken literally then there would be very limited forms of life in the surrounding area where Magcargo decides to inhabit, and no human would be able to get up close to it as we often see", unless you want to scale every life form in pokemon to being able to withstand heat of such an insane degree (No pun intended), then I think this can be written off as questionable at best.
Actually, it wasn't until now that I even considered pokken to be a means of justifying Gardevoir using black holes being a valid feat, real or not, being able to create a black hole is scary, and ironically would probably be more dangerous to a trainer than the original threat in question is. Also side note, isn't the official definiton of a black hole "A region of space having a gravitational field so intense that no matter or radiation can escape." (Figured the first thing that came up on google will suffice), so how exactly can a black hole be scaled down to just city block level? Is it far more simple than I think it is? Granted me knowledge of black holes is limited, but I can't imagine it scales down that far whilst still being considered a black hole.
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It's just a vague feat, it doesn't make it unreliable.
Macargo lives in volcanic area IIRC, so most mons there would be fire type. Beside, most fictional verse don't take convection of heat into account. Like most people being unaffected by being very close to lava.
Same goes here. 90% of fictional depiction of black holes aren't realistic. Presumably, Pokémon doesn't know how to black hole, but it's more of a matter of the author of Pokémon, rather than the Pokédex being unreliable.
Macargo lives in volcanic area IIRC, so most mons there would be fire type. Beside, most fictional verse don't take convection of heat into account. Like most people being unaffected by being very close to lava.
Same goes here. 90% of fictional depiction of black holes aren't realistic. Presumably, Pokémon doesn't know how to black hole, but it's more of a matter of the author of Pokémon, rather than the Pokédex being unreliable.
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Actually, depending on the assumed timeframe, this can be an upgrade in speed.
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@Kyo. Yeah. This is the verse where people can ride horses and birds on fire, and Ash can be consistently burned by town level fires...as a show of affection.
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Not to mention that Lance's Dragonite, well within the range of city level, can blast a normal guy with Hyper Beam and yet the guy survives with no visible injuries.The real cal howard said:
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Being sarcastic is not gonna help ya.Kyo Zero said:
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Don't push it.
I just told you the truth, being sarcastic is not helpful.
I just told you the truth, being sarcastic is not helpful.
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I'm sarcastic by nature, kind of part of my personality, I don't try to avoid being helpful, I just visit this wiki to have fun, and I imagine everyone here does, and I don't see how me being sarcastic by nature takes that away from anything, if you have a problem with it, that's your problem, nobody else seemed offended by it, just had a few laughs like I inteded, so I'm not sure why you had to be difficult
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I mean this post was mostly for fun and so is this whole wiki pretty much, so I don't think you were doing anything wrong. If anything though we should probably come to a conclusion on what to do with the high end of Machamp's feat and the relevance of the dex entry so we can lock the thread.Kyo Zero said:
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I agree.
But I also, believe it should be under as a "at least" point.
This due to the fact that when Machamps/machokes belt comes off he becomes far more powerful.
Pokemon Yellow: The belt around its waist holds back its energy. Without it, this Pokémon would be unstoppable.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Machoke_(Pokémon)
But I also, believe it should be under as a "at least" point.
This due to the fact that when Machamps/machokes belt comes off he becomes far more powerful.
Pokemon Yellow: The belt around its waist holds back its energy. Without it, this Pokémon would be unstoppable.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Machoke_(Pokémon)
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Me gusta.
Go for it, Machamp feats are solid enough I guess.
Pokemon still inconsistent as fk tho.
Downgrade Arceus to planet-level or continent-level due to being nearly killed from a meteor shower. XD
Go for it, Machamp feats are solid enough I guess.
Pokemon still inconsistent as fk tho.
Downgrade Arceus to planet-level or continent-level due to being nearly killed from a meteor shower. XD
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