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Making Saint Seiya Great Again part 3!

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I just checked Thetis' profile and it's damn clean... of stuffs. It barely has anything on it.

And it also remind me, the weakness "can't breathe in space" is now redundant, as not being able to do that means you're lacking Self-Sustenance, so people with this weakness should get it removed.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
I just checked Thetis' profile and it's damn clean... of stuffs. It barely has anything on it.
And it also remind me, the weakness "can't breathe in space" is now redundant, as not being able to do that means you're lacking Self-Sustenance, so people with this weakness should get it removed.
Click to expand...
Shes such a minor character.. she really didn't do anything...

Oh yeah They should definely get self-sustance

Dohko flew into space in lost canvas in Omega flying through space was casual for a few

Then there is the underwrold. and other realms where if oxygen is present is questionable.
 
I know she's minor, but that's why I brought it up. It's too clean, even for a minor character.

Yup, the Self-Sustenance should be there. There's also when Shiryu flew Shura into space during the 12 Palace Arc that I forgot to mention during Part 2 Revision. Shura kept talking even after they reached outer space.
 
Before doing Hades arc i plan on going over stuff that was missed in the arc prior to that..

But anyways, i'll add her to the list of profile deletions to request later...

Also this is a bump lol
 
It warms my heart seeing Saint Seiya be revised and given some love. Also I don't know if it was stated earlier, but resistance to bfr is basically resisting being transported to some place, so basically resisting being transported, if I remember well. Escaping the bfr just means that the character has that much range, or has dimensional travel of the caliber of the bfr itself.
 
Also, I question the lockings on some profile. Is it because they're popular Tier 2s?

I don't see much reason for them to stay locked, now that people don't seem to care much about them like before now.
 
Kasa used Aurora Execution. [[1]] [[2]]

Hyoga states that Camus owns Kasa's body.[[3]]

Julian Solo as a child turned a fish into a woman / mermaid [[4]] (Thetys) [[5]] [[6]] [[7]]

Thetys has super strength and super speed [[8]] [[9]]
 
Wasn't that just Kasa's Illusion? Hyoga was being angered at that time, so he's not composed enough to use the Aurora Execution to its full extent.

And I kinda think the "Camus possess Kasa" thingy is Hyoga pretending it that way, to remind himself not to make the same mistake.

Wasn't that just Thetis' own Shapeshifting?

That's her Superhuman Physical Characteristics, already on her profile.
 
I have no opinion formed about Hyoga's statement.

Thetys in the anime was shown as a mermaid at the end of the saga

[[1]] Video time: 1: 09


Poseidon can create lives according to Hypermit

Hipermito [[2]]

Poseidon teve o talento para criar todas as classes de seres vivos. Esta pode ser uma maneira interpretar a criação das escamas (scales) para seus guerreiros.

Translation:poseidon had the talent to create all classes of living things. This can be a way of interpreting the creation of scales for your warriors.

Scales are made of orichalcum a special metal[[3]]
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Wasn't that just Kasa's Illusion? Hyoga was being angered at that time, so he's not composed enough to use the Aurora Execution to its full extent.
And I kinda think the "Camus possess Kasa" thingy is Hyoga pretending it that way, to remind himself not to make the same mistake.

Wasn't that just Thetis' own Shapeshifting?

That's her Superhuman Physical Characteristics, already on her profile.
Click to expand...
Agree with you on that

btw there was a scan i had save (that i can't find now) i do have know where its at in the manga though. The Gods created humans, and gave literally everything to them from music, and speech even thought, and their power.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
So, have you messaged them?
Or you will later when you are free?
Click to expand...
i will when i got time. I been working way to much overtime recently

i'll likely do it late sunday
 
Okay, this is a big thread so I'll go a-la Jack the Ripper.

>Shun

Adaptation is okay.

Damage Boost might be okay, but I don't understand what's happening in that page.

Resistance to Sound Manipulation isn't right. As some people said, reflecting the air around oneself is Air Manipulation. Plus the last panel got me thinking that the technique might not have worked at all considering the Mariner's confidence and Shun's reaction.

>Ikki

Dunno about Transduality. People disagreed with it and I wasn't aware of such power in the wiki before, so I can't give a proper judgement of whether Ikki should get it or not.

I know that Ikki always resurrect, but has he been able to come back after getting his whole body destroyed to the point where his soul only was intact? I could totally buy that if there's a scan about it.

The rest seems fine.

>Seiya

It's okay to me.

>Camus

I guess it's okay, but since I don't understand many SS concepts don't pay too much attention to my words here.

>Aldebaran

Same as above.

>Shaina

Do you have a scan showing that Poseidon's absorption should have killed her? If there's no implication of that, then it shouldn't count as a resistance since the only thing she did was shielding Seiya.

>Saints

Pressure Points is okay.

Miracles are just glorified asspulls The rest is fine as well.

>Sorrento

Homing Attack is the only thing that shouldn't be counted as such. Sound is an omnidirectional wave after all.

The rest is fine.

>Krishna

Everything seems fine.

>Poseidon

Spatial Manipulation is more like Dimensional Storage. The rest is fine.

>Athena

Everything seems fine.

>Gods

Same as above.

I'd rather not talk about the scaling. The Tier 2 organization is something I don't get yet, and I don't know about this verse so I can't speak a lot about it, sorry.
 
Neutral, but I think DragonEmperor23 makes sense; though, I do trust Matt's judgement more than anyone's regarding Saint Seiya, but he's been super busy as usual.
 
Okay, I can look over the AP now.

"2.) If we don't accept as a metaphor but an actual legitmate feat. It should be High 3-A, or Low 2-C. We are talking about the ENTIRE Universe, and not 1 small spherical part of the universe."

The exact quote is "I...It's so huge now it could almost encompass the entire universe." Almost, as in it does not actually encompass the entire universe. I disagree with this being enough for an upgrade to Low 2-C and think that 3-A fits more than High 3-A. Since it's not encompassing the entire universe, and therefor not encompassing the space time of the entire universe either.

"Poseidon should be 2-C without any Universe (3-A) Key. He should be at least around 150+ above the baseline of 2-C, and he grows stronger the longer the battle continues."

I'm not sure where the 50 in the 150 comes from, but if the 100 is from his power being a hundred times greater, than I disagree with this reasoning. Poseidon got stronger, continued to get stronger, got one hundred times stronger, and then his Cosmo was stated to become big enough to almost encompass the universe. He only became that strong after raising his power for a while, he wasn't that strong and then became 100X stronger.

"Miracles should be a Passive (with a random chance of proc'ing) Statistics Amplification, and Probability Manipulation that goes as far as 2-C power boost as their Max, for now, as it gives a power boost that allows a character to surpass Gods, and make the impossible suddenly possible."

Miracles aren't a passive, they're something that happens when a Saint flares their Cosmo to their limits. It doesn't happen on accident.

"Multi-Solar System Gold saints > The Bronze Saints with their 7th sense flared to maximum, with bronze cltohs turned Gold > The Mariners > Post Gold Saint arc (Untrained 7th sense) Bronze Saints

Weakest Gold Saint > Bronze Gone Gold Cloth Seiya and Co > Strongest Mariner >"

I agree with the upper part of this, but I'm pretty sure Krishna and Kanon were Gold Saint level.
 
  • "The exact quote is "I...It's so huge now it could almost encompass the entire universe." Almost, as in it does not actually encompass the entire universe. I disagree with this being enough for an upgrade to Low 2-C and think that 3-A fits more than High 3-A. Since it's not encompassing the entire universe, and therefor not encompassing the space time of the entire universe either."

I disagree here. Currently as 3-A is.


  • Universe level: Characters who can destroy all of the physical matter within an observable universe at full power. More specifically, usually via an explosion, omnidirectional energy blast, or a shockwave, that encompasses all of the stars and planets within a universe.
The exact quote specifies the entire universe and not just "The Observable Universe".


  • "I'm not sure where the 50 in the 150 comes from, but if the 100 is from his power being a hundred times greater, than I disagree with this reasoning. Poseidon got stronger, continued to get stronger, got one hundred times stronger, and then his Cosmo was stated to become big enough to almost encompass the universe. He only became that strong after raising his power for a while, he wasn't that strong and then became 100X stronger."


Juilian Solo was using Posiedon's power up until he got headshotted by the Golden Arrow Seiya shot. it wa shorly after that Posiedon took control over Juilian Solo, and he began to gradually awaken to his full power. Posiedon has 2-C feats such as being able to fight a great deal of many Holy Wars aganist Athena in the past. He was also Supporting his 7 pillars, and his Mainstay in a similar fashion that Hades maintains his underworld. if we take the 7 pillars then add 100 to it, and then factor in the durability of the Mainstay its probably closer to 120, but i had a reasoning for the 150 but i completely forgot it tbh since i created this thread.... Oh i forgot, but Poseidon was most likely fully awakened at the end of his arc just before he got sealed again.

Anyways... Poseidon was awakening, and as he was Awakening he was slowly gaining his power back. Julian Solo after getting headshotted was asleep. He should be further into 2-C by virtue that Posiedons power having that kind of potency. (the Kind of potency that can contend with Athena who can contend with hades, and other Space-time continuum busting entities, and being able to support his own Pillars that not even the combined might of all 12 Gold Saints can destroy). I still disagree with the "Entire" universe being only 3-A


  • "Miracles aren't a passive, they're something that happens when a Saint flares their Cosmo to their limits. It doesn't happen on accident."

They aren't something they can freely control can they? Wasn't there some fights were they where the MC was getting stomped for a couple of chapters before awakening a miracle? its just their more likely to cause a miracle by flaring their cosmo?? Miracles are a weird combo package.


  • "Weakest Gold Saint > Bronze Gone Gold Cloth Seiya and Co > Strongest Mariner >"
I agree with the upper part of this, but I'm pretty sure Krishna and Kanon were Gold Saint level."


Kishna is like the Shaka for the Mariners, imo. Even Kanon seemed to have respected his strength with that one statement of "A man of his Caliber!"

Now as for Kanon, going by Ikki fighting him. He should be comparable to saga. With only the slight possibility of being weaker in striking strength, but that could have been ikki just trying to anger Kanon. but i agree they should be in the Gold Saint Ball park.


What about the libra weapons?


Also, i want to apologize for any poor word phrasing..

@DragonEmperor23

btw i have a busy work week so it'll take me time to respond to things.
 
Are we going on to the AP rating? Then I have my two cents about it too.

I don't think there's need to argue if it's High 3-A or Low 2-C or not. Aren't we aiming for straight 2-C here?

Also, it's not good idea to make up multipliers on the spot. Just make a scaling chain and note how far he is from baseline.

Which should go like: Poseidon's Pillars < Libra Weapons <<<<< Mainstay = Wailing Wall < 5 Bronze Saints w/God Cloth < Athena w/Cloth < Hades = Poseidon

Miracles are like triggering passives. You burn your Cosmo, it sometimes just increase your power, sometimes it tremendously increases your power.

I'm not sure about the 4-A chain being relevant. I mean, even if the 3-A upgrade's not accepted, I still think they all should be 3-C, as the statement of Saga destroying galaxies are noted to be casual and not full power.

As for the Libra Weapons, I already included them in the 2-C chain.
 
Seiya says that Posiedons Cosmo is 100x greater than before, and Seiya was also the one to very later on to say that Posiedons Cosmo can encompass and entire universe (Which imo is a metaphor that shouldn't be used for AP, or have a different tier). This happened after Posiedon awakened. This was the first major boost in power for Posiedon right after he awakened, iirc. https://*****************/read-online/Saint-Seiya-chapter-18.html

Everyonc an scale from Saga, and kanon??? 3-C was galaxy level wasn't it???
 
I see. 100 × stronger than when he was not completely awakened, but still able to protect the Mainstay and the Pillars. Then Pre-Awakening Poseidon should scale above the Mainstay.

The "Cosmo emcompasses universe" statement's not very relevant to his rating here. It's a statement for Post-Awakening Poseidon, the one who should get a 2-C rating.

And yes, I'm thinking about making every Gold Saints 3-C, since they should still be comparable in power, even if there are weaker ones.
 
I still don't see how this feat is better than 3-A in any way. The part where he says "almost" is being ignored here when the whole point of High 3-A is that it includes the entire thing. Again, the same argument applies to Low 2-C. You would be saying that he can destroy an entire universe and its space time because he can almost cover the universe in his power. It gets even worse with 2-C, where you have to be able to destroy 1001 universes and their space times to qualify for the tier. Where does that number come from to support that?

I'm not sure where the Libra Weapons being Low 2-C or 2-C come from. If it's the pillar thing, then being able to break something that a High 3-A attack couldn't doesn't mean they're a tier higher.

I agree with making the Gold Saints 3-C.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
It gets even worse with 2-C, where you have to be able to destroy 1001 universes and their space times to qualify for the tier. Where does that number come from to support that?
I'm not sure where the Libra Weapons being Low 2-C or 2-C come from. If it's the pillar thing, then being able to break something that a High 3-A attack couldn't doesn't mean they're a tier higher.
Click to expand...
I think that was for 2-B?

Libra Weapons get that from scaling from the Wailing Wall, which should be comparable to the Mainstay, then down scaled into the Pillars.
 
my b, 2-C is 1000, and 2-B is 10001 or higher

Then that scaling looks like this.

Mainstay > Libra Weapons >= Wailing Wall = Mainstay > Pillars
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Libra Weapons get that from scaling from the Wailing Wall, which should be comparable to the Mainstay, then down scaled into the Pillars.
Click to expand...
The problem of the Wailing Wall was not the power AP of the attack, but the need to recreate the "sunlight" because only with it could a breach be made

So I don't think it's right to do that scaling in that way
 
It's not about the combined attack that breaks it. It's about the very nature of it. I recall it being a structure protected by Hades's Cosmo, and is weak to sunlight as a result. (Was it? I need to read that chapter again, but I faintly remember that)
 
@DragonEmperor23

  • "The part where he says "almost" is being ignored here when the whole point of High 3-A is that it includes the entire thing. "
I see your point here... Overall though, i don't think its something that should translate into AP.

  • " It gets even worse with 2-C, where you have to be able to destroy 1001 universes and their space times to qualify for the tier.*
Tier 2-C is 2 ~ 1000 Universes .. 2-B is 1001 to Uncountable, or an infintely expanding multiverse..

  • "Where does that number come from to support that?"
The MainStay >>>> Libra Weapons > The 7 Pillars are > Than the combined might of all 12 Gold Saints >>>>>>>>> 1 Athena Exclamation (Then add the "He is 100 times stronger than before")

  • "I'm not sure where the Libra Weapons being Low 2-C or 2-C come from. If it's the pillar thing, then being able to break something that a High 3-A attack couldn't doesn't mean they're a tier higher."
Then you propose they are above baseline High 3-A? the ;pillar by themselves aand apart can be seen as separate universes similar to Hades underworld???

ABout the wailing wall scaling, don't forget that 2 Athena Exclmations clashing together have an infinite expontential growth or a truly infinite growth (Varies by translation) Which should scale to all 12 Gold Saints focusing their cosmo on a single point in a similar fashion of an AE, right?
 
And one last thing: rereading the volume of the manga, the twelve golden saints, in the combined attack against the wailing wall, they do not carry the Libra's weapons
 
Don't want to bring cross canon continunity into this, but the Athena Exclamation's tier itself might change too in the future once we start discussing Saint Seiya Omega.

@Diinou HotHead

Also, i think the current Scaling for the Gold Saints comes from Saga being Baseline 3-C (Galaxy level) when "holding back" and they scaled down and people up from that.
 
Leonida85 said:
And one last thing: rereading the volume of the manga, the twelve golden saints, in the combined attack against the wailing wall, they do not carry the Libra's weapons
Click to expand...
Of course. Before the 12 Gold Saints combined their attack, 6 of them tried the Libra Weapons. It was as successful as another Divine Cosmo-protected structure, the Mainstay (The Libra Weapons are broken in 1 hit)

But we're not gonna scale the weapons to be comparable to these, of course, we're scaling them to another Divine Cosmo-protected structure(s), the Pillars, which the weapons break in 1 hit.
 
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