• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Malcanthet vs Slaanesh

I kind of want to say that Slaanesh stomps because she is a Warhammer character, but I'll wait.
 
How does she deal with Slaanesh immortality. Does her abilities work on non-existent beings. And how does she deal with conceptual mind manipulation.
 
1. Yes. Sufficiently powerful beings can even affect Shar, who has a higher level of nonexistence.

2. Mal resists mindhax and concept hax. Not a lot, mind you, but 2-A mindhax and below isn't a problem.

3. Mal also has mindhax.

Now, for Slaanesh, I know her shtick is she gets more powerful as her portfolio gets used- the more lust is felt the stronger she is. Mal is 100% likely to fall victim to that, so I'd like someone super knowledgeable on Warhammer to explain to me how badly that ***** her over and if this'd be a stomp just because Mal is... well, Mal.
 
This doesn't mean much if you cannot relate beings who can affect non-existence to Mal, "being powerful" doesn't grant abilities. 2-A mind hax is mind hax that can affect a whole 2-A multiverse right? That's not conceptual mind hax resistance. Also where does conceptual resistance come from? Mal having mind hax is good and all but Slaanesh is literally contradiction galore, she simultaenously exists yet doesn't exist yet was born at the start of time but was born from mortal emotions. That on top of being an avatar of True Form Slaanesh which isn't letting an avatar die anytime soon. Slaanesh is reliant on a High 1-B concept and a 1-A True Form.

Yeah I'm pretty knowledgable on Warhammer having read the whole Heresy and Codices. She does have that affect being the concept of lust and all. The tiniest lust causes her to grow in power of course. It would probably be too much for Mal who is apparenlty a succubus? Damn I'd say Slaanesh sedeces and calls it a day.
 
Hold the phone.

Since when are 2-B Chaos Gods in Age of Sigmar reliant on the High 1-B/1-A versions in 40K?
 
Type 2 Concept Manip counters based on the recent thread on Acausality. Mal has that.

As for their resistances. Mal (and pretty much all Tier 2s in D&D) resist the abilities of those below them. Since Mal isn't the weakest Low 2-C there are actually a fairly tremendous amount of Low 2-Cs she'd resist the powers of. As for Mal's interaction with nonexistence.

Shar is the feat. Shar is the concept of nonexistence and doesn't exist even as a concept on this level of reality. She was the void prior to the creation of anything. She physically is nothingness down to her core. Gods can interact with her.

Growing in power does what though? Like I get it makes her more powerful, I've heard the tales of how insane that makes AngryBoi for 2-B. But does it stop stuff like mindhax?
 
I've read the thread and it's not concluded. All the arguments for it working have been debunked and the thread has just been left hung in the air. Even so all of Mal's abilities have to be Type 2 conceptual to work which clearly isn't the case from what I've seen.

I guess Slaanesh should resist everything lower tiers dish out as well. Also being able to resist the other Chaos Gods who are always constantly fighting over The Warp.

Slaanesh hasn't existed conceptually yet does exist conceptually.

So all Gods scale abilities wise? Doesn't make sense for one god to have an ability meaning another should have unless explicitly shown.

Growing in power just means she just grows in power in all catergories, literally growing in power metaphysically. If Tzeentch hax doesn't work on Slaanesh I doubt any of Mal's mind hax will work. Slaanesh grows also grows in power from anything metaphysical.
 
"All the arguments for it working have been debunked and the thread has just been left hung in the air."

Just going to point out that's blatantly false.
 
All gods can use all spells with a thought. That's part of their shtick.

If that's all the power growing means then currently my vote to Mal. 2-A mindhax gg.
 
Yes, and Type 2 Concept. Her concept is transcendent of reality.
 
TranscendHunger said:
No, it isn't. The arguments have been refuted and debunked and no one from the opposing side has responded.
Click to expand...
Except it hasn't.

Type 2 conceptual manipulation will work on a type 5 acausal just fine and it's always been that way.
 
...

No.

First off, very few pages specify the breadth of the mindhax. For clarity in the future, all Tier 2s in D&D maintain the ability to control those under their sphere of influence across an infinite multiverse, and it upscales from the weakest Low 2-Cs.

Second off, a Type 2 Concept (one that is transcendent over reality) is not automatically 1-A. You're thinking of a Type 1 Concept, a True Platonic one.
 
Udlmaster's last say is a contradiction on the meaning of Type 2, saying it shouldn't be called a False Platonic because that's not how Platonic Concepts work. A naming error.

Examples. Mystra. Upon her "death" (she didn't die because lolregen, but you get the point) caused all users of her concept (magic) to simultaneously go insane and many to die instantly because her concept was harmed. It damaged the infinite multiverse immensely and entire universes were obliterated. This is known as the Spellplague.
 
Concepts that transcend reality are 1-A. It's in the accepted definition. "Such concepts, or forms, are completely transcendent of reality in every aspect. These forms are 1-A in nature".

Type 2 concepts are concepts that "partly" transcend reality but are still bound to it in some manner. In which manner are they bound to reality? And why aren't they bound by causality? Those are the questions that need answers. "Partly transcend reality" is too vague to say it transcends causality.

Also until those are answered I will not accept type 2 concepts being able to affect Slaanesh who might even transcend it on a conceptual level.

Also even without the Acausality, how does she affect Slaanesh anyway? You're telling me her mind hax is conceptual but how? and where is this shown or specified? Because to affect a being with Type 5 Acausality you supposedly need Type 2 conceptual manipulation according to you guys so she needs this in all aspects in all her abilities for her to be able to affect Slaanesh. Slaanesh is viewed as a contradictory being who not even Tzeentch can manipulate conceptually with mind hax. I very much doubt Mal can.

Low 2-C beings beind able to manipulate beings across a 2-A multiverse would surely account for range not potency? Who are they even manipulating? Some random fodder in a different universe? That's like saying Magnus who can manipulate from the Warp to the Materium has at least 1-B mind hax like just no. Honestly, Magnus should get at least 1-B range from being able to access the Materium from the dimensions in The Warp I'll make a thread for him soon.
 
They are bound in that they do not transcend above 4-D. Beings like, say, Ao aren't affected by Mal (or any other god's) concepts since he's above this reality.

Mal is a conceptual being. All gods are. More specifically, Mal and other succubi were created when the Tanar'ri generated in the Abyss to mimic the emotions of mankind. They became powerful because the obyrinths (original rulers of the Abyss) didn't even know Lust was a thing, thus they got overwhelmed. Mal uses the concept of lust to mindfuck/soulfuck/statfuck her enemies. Also... no offense but I'm pretty certain D&D's scaling chain is longer than the chain of Low 2-Cs in D&D. Then again I'm not super familiar so you could be right, who knows.

It translates to minds haxed. In regards to mindhax on this wiki, they're the same. As for who they are manipulating... any being that feels lust. It's a broad statement, I know, but any being that feels lust is to some extent under Mal's control whether they know it or not.

Also yeah feel free to do the 1-B thing for Magnus I guess, not super relevant here tho.
 
I see. So all her attacks and abilities are conceptual. I'll agree it can affect Slaanesh for sake of argument. Mind Hax and Range of Mind Hax are the same? Well that's perculiar I might make a thread about that too but for now that isn't relevant. AP is pretty irrelevant here due to regen. Mind Hax is conceptual. I guess you've convinced me that Mal wins. Alright I switch up to Mal. Might get into D&D too seems fascinating to say the least, I know it insipired things like Warhammer to be created.
 
Range is almost the same. We measure mindhax in the form of how many minds it can hax (or, in certain cases, what dimensional level of beings it can hax). 2-A denotes mindhaxing beings across an infinite multiverse. Basically infinity^2 minds.

And... honestly if you're looking for lore I wouldn't get too far into D&D. A lot of it is pretty damned cheesy. It's fun as hell and is the reason I've been wanting to get into Warhammer, but from a purely lore based point of view, lore is few and far between and often contradictory depending on what writers they had at the time.

It's good if you want to screw around though, and makes for a damn good time. I highly suggest it as a game.
 
Well if you enjoy D&D this much I highly recommend Warhammer. I lore isn't that large and relatively easy to understand. I will look into D&D.
 
I mean

I've been meaning to get into Warhammer for months, just that nobody in my area plays it. Moved to a new town a few months back so I lost my old D&D table.
 
Lil bit. Hopefully someday I'll meet some folks. Unlikely but still.
 
Just saying the Type 2 working on Type 5 Acausals is total BS and was never backed up even after I pointed it out to the person who made the claim, they never refuted me, they dropped the point the second I pointed it out and why Type 2 are BS.

In point, **** Type 2.
 
I agree.

Also, I'd like evidence for Mal's conceptual manipulation. Especially all her abilities being as such. I really doubt it.
 
Type 2 conceptual manipulation = you no longer exist, have never existed, and will never exist.

It's not bound by cause and effect. Saying a type 5 acausal can no-sell type 2 conceptual manipulation when they have no feats of resisting it is wank/NLF.
 
Yes, actually, it is, it's bound by time and space.

Why would a Type 2 concept be Acausal?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

EtherealCrater
Luffy vs Giant Goat
Replies
4
Views
363
JustANormalLemon
JustANormalLemon
DaReaperMan
Golgfag Maneater vs a Forgecaller Giant (0/8/0)
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
Armorchompy
Armorchompy
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
9-C Animal Tournament (16/16)
7 8 9
Replies
333
Views
20K
JustANormalLemon
JustANormalLemon
Lou_change
Bowser's Minions vs an Aboleth
Replies
7
Views
1K
Serpent_of_the_Internet_97
Serpent_of_the_Internet_97
Nonynho
  • Locked
[7-0] +If we see tomorrow, the next day Chaos+ - Warmaster Horus vs Emperor Of Mankind
Replies
12
Views
1K
Nonynho
Nonynho
Back
Top