Mario Bros: Profile Overhaul(s) #5

[AStrangeverse]

Credit to Dust_Collector for generously allowing me to use a bit of their Sandbox. Straight to the point, there's quite a bit to unravel here. I reworked Bowser's profile and the Power Star's profile and decided to fuse the Power Star and Grand Star profiles, mainly 'cuz the Grand Star's profile offered little-to-no substance, and would instead work better if it was conjoined with the Power Star profile.

Bowser's New Profile

Power Star's New Profile

This would also mean that the Grand Star's profile page should be deleted and removed from the Mario Bros verse page, since it would be under a single profile page.


Next comes a few adjustments to some profiles.

Transmutation Resistance:

I noticed an issue in the resistances tabber for Mario and Luigi. They have a full on resistance to transmutation from supposedly being unaffected by Kamek's magic, which can transmute an inanimate object into a common foe of the Bros. Problem with this, is that this is a similar situation to the Gold Flower; transmuting objects and not a living being.

I believe Kamek would need to have also shown the capacity to perform the reverse; transmuting living creatures into objects, in order for it to be a full-on resistance for the Bros. But if there's any new pieces of evidence of him executing the aforementioned feat (or even an entirely different feat altogether), feel free to post it. If not, then the resistance would need to be changed to Limited Transmutation for Mario, Peach, and Bowser, since they can fight as scarecrows, but Luigi would have his resistance removed.

Spatial Manipulation for Power Stars:

Power Stars have Spatial Manipulation listed in their P&A under the assumption that their power was used by Bowser to create that "infinite staircase". Issue is, I haven't seen anything that remotely implies it was because of the Power Stars that the looping staircase was created. If anything, it seems Bowser was responsible for its creation, so it should be removed from their P&A and anyone else that has it listed in their Power Star tabber in their profile.

Dark Bowser's Removal from Bowser:

Don't really understand this one. Just because Dark Bowser shares the same name as Bowser, doesn't mean they're one in the same. Dark Bowser is the result of the Dark Star copying Bowser's DNA and finishing the copy by merging with Fawful (Dark Star Core), not some random variant of Bowser that appears in a different form of media.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Looking good as usual

 

[ztarwarz]

If I remember correctly, we don't know it was Kamek, but we DO know that Toads were transformed into Brick Blocks back in SMB1. And apparently pipes as well. So some member of Bowser's army has the ability to transform people into objects.

Found at least one reference to the manual. There are other pages mentioning it as well, including the game description, but this might even give a feat to the Toads themselves? Either way, proof of some member of Bowser's army having what you asked for, though not Kamek specifically.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If I remember correctly, we don't know it was Kamek, but we DO know that Toads were transformed into Brick Blocks back in SMB1. And apparently pipes as well. So some member of Bowser's army has the ability to transform people into objects.

Found at least one reference to the manual. There are other pages mentioning it as well, including the game description, but this might even give a feat to the Toads themselves? Either way, proof of some member of Bowser's army having what you asked for, though not Kamek specifically.

That's currently being attributed to Bowser in his profile, which I think is reasonable.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Looks good to me

 

[Lou_change]

I agree except to my knowledge power stars and Mario party stars aren't the same

 

[AStrangeverse]

I agree except to my knowledge power stars and Mario party stars aren't the same

you're gonna have to explain yourself on that one

cuz the only Stars that come from a Mario Party title in that profile are the Mini Stars, which they themselves can collectively join together to form a Power Star

Edit: I see what you're probs referring to. Since Power Stars are also shown to be a mature form of Lumas, that does come into conflict with Power Stars being comprised of Mini Stars.

 

[Lou_change]

you're gonna have to explain yourself on that one

cuz the only Stars that come from a Mario Party title in that profile are the Mini Stars, which they themselves can collectively join together to form a Power Star

If I recall the question of the stars in Mario party we think are power stars, actually are power stars was brought up. I don't think it went anywhere but the stars in Mario party aren't ever refered to as power stars in English or Japanese and them looking the same isn't a good argument because super stars also exist.
Edit: Found where it was brought up

 

[AStrangeverse]

If I recall the question of the stars in Mario party we think are power stars, actually are power stars was brought up. I don't think it went anywhere but the stars in Mario party aren't ever refered to as power stars in English or Japanese

gonna need to cite that

and them looking the same isn't a good argument because super stars also exist.

if it were a Super Star, then the only power it would show upon usage by the main cast would be granting Invincibility

not to mention, Super Stars have only been used as party items, having only been referenced in like- MP Island Tour and MP 10

hell, its theme is even in both games

 

[Lou_change]

gonna need to cite that

I just edited it with a source

if it were a Super Star, then the only power it would show upon usage by the main cast would be granting Invincibility

the point was more them looking the same doesn't mean they are the same

 

[AStrangeverse]

the point was more them looking the same doesn't mean they are the same

true, they are referred to as just Stars

 

[Starsprite53]

I noticed an issue in the resistances tabber for Mario and Luigi. They have a full on resistance to transmutation from supposedly being unaffected by Kamek's magic, which can transmute an inanimate object into a common foe of the Bros. Problem with this, is that this is a similar situation to the Gold Flower; transmuting objects and not a living being.

I believe Kamek would need to have also shown the capacity to perform the reverse; transmuting living creatures into objects, in order for it to be a full-on resistance for the Bros. But if there's any new pieces of evidence of him executing the aforementioned feat (or even an entirely different feat altogether), feel free to post it. If not, then the resistance would need to be changed to Limited Transmutation for Mario, Peach, and Bowser, since they can fight as scarecrows, but Luigi would have his resistance removed.

Is there a rule that implies such thing? if yes then sure

Power Stars have Spatial Manipulation listed in their P&A under the assumption that their power was used by Bowser to create that "infinite staircase". Issue is, I haven't seen anything that remotely implies it was because of the Power Stars that the looping staircase was created. If anything, it seems Bowser was responsible for its creation, so it should be removed from their P&A and anyone else that has it listed in their Power Star tabber in their profile.

The assertion that Bowser single-handedly created the "infinite staircase" along with sealing without the influence of Power Stars overlooks crucial evidence and fails to recognize the central role of Power Stars in the game's narrative and gameplay mechanics. The assumption that the staircase's creation was independent of the Power Stars contradicts the thematic emphasis placed on these artifics throughout the game.Them negating spatial hax and sealing would undermine their established significance within the game's lore (where is my spatial hax negation and layered sealing negation huh?)

Dark Bowser's Removal from Bowser:

Don't really understand this one. Just because Dark Bowser shares the same name as Bowser, doesn't mean they're one in the same. Dark Bowser is the result of the Dark Star copying Bowser's DNA and finishing the copy by merging with Fawful (Dark Star Core), not some random variant of Bowser that appears in a different form of media.

big agree with this

 

[AStrangeverse]

Is there a rule that implies such thing? if yes then sure

no, but like many other abilities, there's different applications and limits

if Kamek has only been shown to transmute objects, but not living beings, then it would be limited to just that

The assertion that Bowser single-handedly created the "infinite staircase" along with sealing without the influence of Power Stars overlooks crucial evidence and fails to recognize the central role of Power Stars in the game's narrative and gameplay mechanics. The assumption that the staircase's creation was independent of the Power Stars contradicts the thematic emphasis placed on these artifics throughout the game.Them negating spatial hax and sealing would undermine their established significance within the game's lore (where is my spatial hax negation and layered sealing negation huh?)

no need to jam a thesaurus down my throat, I understand your point, but keep it simple

nothing states the Power Stars were used to make that "infinite staircase", they were only used to bypass it

my man Bowser was stated to be using the Stars power to create his own worlds in the paintings, you'd think they would care to mention he also created that infinite staircase and trapped everyone in the castle by using the Stars, ye?

 

[AStrangeverse]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

no, but like many other abilities, there's different applications and limits

if Kamek has only been shown to transmute objects, but not living beings, then it would be limited to just that

I have no idea if that's something we do for transmutation, limiting it like that without anything that seems to say that's the case. But the Golden Flower I'd agree is just for solid objects given that normal enemies consistently just die from it instead of becoming coins like brick blocks do.

The assertion that Bowser single-handedly created the "infinite staircase" along with sealing without the influence of Power Stars overlooks crucial evidence and fails to recognize the central role of Power Stars in the game's narrative and gameplay mechanics. The assumption that the staircase's creation was independent of the Power Stars contradicts the thematic emphasis placed on these artifics throughout the game.Them negating spatial hax and sealing would undermine their established significance within the game's lore (where is my spatial hax negation and layered sealing negation huh?)

They don't neg the space hax tho, in SM64DS you can collect all 150 and Bowser will still pull off the infinite staircase shit to anyone that isn't Mario because he doesn't care about fighting anyone who isn't his rival (Which is also a major point in favor of Bowser just using his magic to do it). Bowser just basically turns the infinite stairs off because he decided he wants to fight Mario. Even then, how would Bowser making the staircase contradict the emphasis on the Power Stars? Like yeah sure they make Mario stronger and restore power to castle and break the seals Bowser placed on the castle and Peach herself but uh guess that doesn't mean anything because Bowser did something funny with a flight of stairs so they're not that important anymore?

 

[Lou_change]

if Kamek has only been shown to transmute objects, but not living beings, then it would be limited to just that

I mean he can use his size changing powers on living beings, and yoshi's woolly world

 

[AStrangeverse]

I mean he can use his size changing powers on living beings, and yoshi's woolly world

true, but it'd be the safer option to just show it doing the reverse, cuz you know some donkey is gonna be skeptical of it if we don't

 

[AStrangeverse]

I have no idea if that's something we do for transmutation, limiting it like that without anything that seems to say that's the case. But the Golden Flower I'd agree is just for solid objects given that normal enemies consistently just die from it instead of becoming coins like brick blocks do.

I've no idea either, to be frank. Just tryna play it safe.

 

[Starsprite53]

no need to jam a thesaurus down my throat, I understand your point, but keep it simple

nothing states the Power Stars were used to make that "infinite staircase", they were only used to bypass it

my man Bowser was stated to be using the Stars power to create his own worlds in the paintings, you'd think they would care to mention he also created that infinite staircase and trapped everyone in the castle by using the Stars, ye?

They don't neg the space hax tho, in SM64DS you can collect all 150 and Bowser will still pull off the infinite staircase shit to anyone that isn't Mario because he doesn't care about fighting anyone who isn't his rival (Which is also a major point in favor of Bowser just using his magic to do it). Bowser just basically turns the infinite stairs off because he decided he wants to fight Mario. Even then, how would Bowser making the staircase contradict the emphasis on the Power Stars? Like yeah sure they make Mario stronger and restore power to castle and break the seals Bowser placed on the castle and Peach herself but uh guess that doesn't mean anything because Bowser did something funny with a flight of stairs so they're not that important anymore?

Actually, you guys are right, I just re-checked the game and it's true (I was dumb for not realising that), But I still think power stars should get layered Sealing Negation (and Bowser's sealing should be layered as well)

 

[Starsprite53]

But Since this thread is related to power stars, can I suggest other abilities that are messing?

 

[AStrangeverse]

Actually, you guys are right, I just re-checked the game and it's true (I was dumb for not realising that), But I still think power stars should get layered Sealing Negation (and Bowser's sealing should be layered as well)

their power null/sealing is layered, it's just never been brought up much

 

[AStrangeverse]

But Since this thread is related to power stars, can I suggest other abilities that are messing?

go right ahead, brother

 

[Starsprite53]

Flight (The power Star allows the user to fly.The Jumbo Star granted Mario flight with sparkles)
Forcefield Creation (Kamella created a barrier that covers the area)
Summoning (Kamella Can summon other beings with it)
Teleportation (Allows to teleport around)
Corruption, Empathic Manipulation (Wiggler said that the power star made him feel strange and extremely irritated.And after getting rid of the star he suddenly felt far better and more calm and returned to his normal form)Btw this would give the users who hasn't been affected resistence to these
Transmutation, Mind Manipulation(Bowser was going to turn all of the residents from the painting world into monsters with the power of the stars)
Life Manipulation, Resurrection (King Bob-omb was revived by a Power Star given by Bowser, Toad said that life was returning to the castle thanks to the power of the stars)
Matter Manipulation (A Power Star was able to completely remodel the spaceship)
Regeneration (Mid-Godly: Bouldergeist was killed as a ghost, and came back with a new body from another Power Star)
Not sure if this is healing negation or just goes into power null(Daredevil comets nullify any way to regain your health or heal yourself)

 

[AStrangeverse]

gonna have to disagree with the Wiggler one, they seem more upset about Mario being Mario than the Power Star causing his emotions to flare

 

[Starsprite53]

gonna have to disagree with the Wiggler one, they seem more upset about Mario being Mario than the Power Star causing his emotions to flare

He literally said that everything was going wrong and he feels strange because of the Star. Once the Power Star is removed, Wiggler's emotions stabilize and undergoes a notable transformation. He becomes calm and friendly towards Mario, inviting him to visit again. This change in behavior strongly suggests that the Power Star was indeed the primary cause of his emotional outburst.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Flight (The power Star allows the user to fly.The Jumbo Star granted Mario flight with sparkles)
Forcefield Creation (Kamella created a barrier that covers the area)
Summoning (Kamella Can summon other beings with it)
Teleportation (Allows to teleport around)
Corruption, Empathic Manipulation (Wiggler said that the power star made him feel strange and extremely irritated.And after getting rid of the star he suddenly felt far better and more calm and returned to his normal form)Btw this would give the users who hasn't been affected resistence to these
Transmutation, Mind Manipulation(Bowser was going to turn all of the residents from the painting world into monsters with the power of the stars)
Life Manipulation, Resurrection (King Bob-omb was revived by a Power Star given by Bowser, Toad said that life was returning to the castle thanks to the power of the stars)
Matter Manipulation (A Power Star was able to completely remodel the spaceship)
Regeneration (Mid-Godly: Bouldergeist was killed as a ghost, and came back with a new body from another Power Star)
Not sure if this is healing negation or just goes into power null(Daredevil comets nullify any way to regain your health or heal yourself)

Flight is probably fine, but idk if the latter example works because Mario has the wing cap.

The rest... idk what to tell you, there's 0 indicantion that ANY of these powers came from the power stars themselves. The first three are just things Kamella can do, AStrangeverse covered the empathy hax, nothing says King Bob-omb was resurrected by a power star (or that he even died to begin with), "life returning to the castle" is a figure of speech to represent how more and more people are being freed by Mario, remodeling a space ship isn't matter hax in the slightest, and there's no indication that the power star was what brought Bouldergeist back to life. Pretty sure Daredevil comets are treated as statistics reduction already.

 

[Starsprite53]

Flight is probably fine, but idk if the latter example works because Mario has the wing cap.

Mario doesn't have wing cap in the final boss, the jumbo star is what gives him the wing cap

The rest... idk what to tell you, there's 0 indicantion that ANY of these powers came from the power stars themselves. The first three are just things Kamella can do,

The power star is basically what gives power to her wand

AStrangeverse covered the empathy hax

Replied to that,

nothing says King Bob-omb was resurrected by a power star (or that he even died to begin with)

King bob-omb literally dies on his encounter with Yoshi

"life returning to the castle" is a figure of speech to represent how more and more people are being freed by Mario

yeah that makes sense, i kinda did that to slip it into life manip as an extra scan

remodeling a space ship isn't matter hax in the slightest

Then what?

and there's no indication that the power star was what brought Bouldergeist back to life

I was thinking of giving that to him without power stars (and to every boo since it's consistent that they come back after they die from Mario and co)But I thought adding it to power star would be safer

Pretty sure Daredevil comets are treated as statistics reduction already

But negating healing isn't it negation?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The power star is basically what gives power to her wand

Where is that stated?

Replied to that,

He doesn't even act that aggressively towards Mario until you attack him, which like... yeah, that's how Wigglers have always been in Mario games.

King bob-omb literally dies on his encounter with Yoshi

me when i die

Then what?

Honestly all it really does is small cosmetic changes (the ship is already shaped a bit like Mario's head), so I don't think it's anything notable.

I was thinking of giving that to him without power stars (and to every boo since it's consistent that they come back after they die from Mario and co)But I thought adding it to power star would be safer

It isn't safer because nothing even implies that would be the case lol

But negating healing isn't it negation?

How does it negate healing?

 

[Starsprite53]

Where is that stated?

It's literally inside her wand?? Do we need statements for visual inductions?

He doesn't even act that aggressively towards Mario until you attack him, which like... yeah, that's how Wigglers have always been in Mario games.

Then explain why he said the star makes him feel strange and why he suddenly becomes friendly after he got rid of it (keep in mind wiggler was already angry before the battle theme started)

me when i die

(First you canonically meet bob-omb again in star 4 and we literally see him shatters and explodes) He actually talks about time travel
that PS gives, in Mario 64, when you select the star you got in the menu, you return to the level before you got it but it changes to blue and the level changes depending on what mission you choose,(But I was hesitant on adding it because some will think it's game mechanics)

Honestly all it really does is small cosmetic changes (the ship is already shaped a bit like Mario's head), so I don't think it's anything notable.

How adding changing the structure (even by bit) adding rocks rocks, trees, grass, Metal and engine is nothing notable?

It isn't safer because nothing even implies that would be the case lol

Yeah....

How does it negate healing?

Life mushroom heals mario and gives him addtional health, using it in daredevil comets won't do anything

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's literally inside her wand?? Do we need statements for visual inductions?

2/3 of those things (summoning and teleportation) are already things that regular Magikoopas can do, so I think it's pretty clear she's just using her innate abilities lol

Then explain why he said the star makes him feel strange and why he suddenly becomes friendly after he got rid of it (keep in mind wiggler was already angry before the battle theme started)

I mean I think the star making him feel strange is interesting but like. Everything else he does is just regular Mario boss stuff, including giving up and calming down after getting beaten.

(First you canonically meet bob-omb again in star 4 and we literally see him shatters and explodes) He actually talks about time travel
that PS gives, in Mario 64, when you select the star you got in the menu, you return to the level before you got it but it changes to blue and the level changes depending on what mission you choose,(But I was hesitant on adding it because some will think it's game mechanics)

"No he did actually die but it's because restarting the level is canonically time travel hax" is uh. Quite the assumption!

How adding changing the structure (even by bit) adding rocks rocks, trees, grass, Metal and engine is nothing notable?

Idk, I could see it being earth manip, the entire feat is just weird because the screen fades and then the ship looks different. I think matter hax is extrapolating way too much from that.

Life mushroom heals mario and gives him addtional health, using it in daredevil comets won't do anything

He doesn't even have anything to heal from though, he's always at "max health", which just so happens to be in oneshot territory.

 

[Starsprite53]

2/3 of those things (summoning and teleportation) are already things that regular Magikoopas can do, so I think it's pretty clear she's just using her innate abilities lol

The difference that Magikoopas can do that with their regular wands, Kamella's countains the power star

I mean I think the star making him feel strange is interesting but like. Everything else he does is just regular Mario boss stuff, including giving up and calming down after getting beaten.

There is a quite difference between calming down because you're beaten and because you got rid of something that changed your mood which is literally what wiggler said, and did we forget that he went back to his regular small form? That's something wigglers don't usually do

"No he did actually die but it's because restarting the level is canonically time travel hax" is uh. Quite the assumption!

Yes he explodes and shatters, what does that mean? He dies
And when you restart the level, you literally restart the level, as in you went back before you got the star not because king bob-omb
King bob-omb said: if you want to see me again, just select the star from the menu
That's because the level changes depending on what star mission you choose
No offense but that's not an assumption, that's like the most basic thing anyone who played or watched the game knows
(Near course 2) "It was Bowser who stole the Stars. I saw him with my own eyes! He’s hidden six Stars in each course, but you won’t find all of them in some course until you press the Cap Switches. The stars you’ve found will show on each course’s starting screen. If you want to see some of the enemies you’ve already defeated, select the stars you recovered from them."
(Near course 3) "The names of the Stars are also hints for finding them. They are displayed at the beginning of each course. You can collect the stars in any order. You won’t find some Stars, enemies or items unless you select a specific Star. After you collect some Stars, you can try another course. We’re all waiting for your help!"
(to Yoshi) "The Star you chose at the beginning of the course appears on the map below. The name of the Star is also a clue. You can also collect Stars that don't appear on the map. Get the Stars in any order you like. Keep in mind though...Some Stars only appear when you choose specific missions, enemies, and items. Once you've retrieved some Stars, move on to the door to the next course. Everyone's waiting for you to save us!"

Source: https://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Super_Mario_64_and_Super_Mario_64_DS_quotes

Idk, I could see it being earth manip, the entire feat is just weird because the screen fades and then the ship looks different. I think matter hax is extrapolating way too much from that

It must gives something, throwing the feat away wouldn't be reasonable

He doesn't even have anything to heal from though, he's always at "max health", which just so happens to be in oneshot territory

1 bar isn't his max health though

 

[Robot972]

Problem with this, is that this is a similar situation to the Gold Flower; transmuting objects and not a living being.

Bit off topic from the current convo, but I don't get why people are allergic to Nintendo explicitly stating the Gold Flower turns both blocks AND enemies into coins

 

[AStrangeverse]

Bit off topic from the current convo, but I don't get why people are allergic to Nintendo explicitly stating the Gold Flower turns both blocks AND enemies into coins

the fact that the statement you showed doesn't reflect what happens in-game

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah enemies just fall and die the same way they would when hit by a fireball or shell or whatever, so that takes priority over the statement made about it turning enemies into coins.

 

[Lou_change]

Yeah enemies just fall and die the same way they would when hit by a fireball or shell or whatever, so that takes priority over the statement made about it turning enemies into coins.

I mean it could just be due to the developers not wanting to make another enemy defeating animation.

 

[AStrangeverse]

bump

 

[AStrangeverse]

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[AStrangeverse]

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[AStrangeverse]

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[AStrangeverse]

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