• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Marvel Comics - Cosmic King Thor: Up to Low 1-A Via Absorption

Status
Not open for further replies.
NaturalDestroyer

NaturalDestroyer

626
697
I know what you're thinking. How did this happen?

RELEVANCE: Well, I saw a need and decided to start a CRT to fill that need. We no longer have a Cosmic King Thor/Herald of Thunder key on Thor's profile, despite it being one of his most popular powerups in the past twenty years, even spawning a Fortnite spinoff. It didn't last for very long story-wise, but neither did Rune King Thor (and he just got upgraded to Low 1-A, so it's not like this is a ridiculous tier to suggest). Cosmic King Thor has a strong presence on the internet, spawning over 5 million results on Google and additional hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube. It would be a significant addition to Thor's profile and may notably increase traffic to the page.

PROPOSED CHANGES: That we add a new key. Cosmic King Thor's base stats would be "At least 2-A" for consistently matching a fully-fed Galactus, and his peak would be "Up to Low 1-A via Absorption."

THE SCALING/LOGIC:
  1. Normal Skyfather Thor is already 2-A, without amps of any kind. The Odinforce has been viewed as at least somewhat comparable to full-power Galactus for decades. Those are the levels that should be used as a reference throughout the Herald of Thunder storyline.
  2. In both this story and Silver Surfer Black 4, the Black Winter was highlighted as the entity that destroyed the Sixth Multiverse. It is solidly Low 1-A. Silver Surfer knew that it had destroyed the multiverse previously, and he also stated that Galactus would be powerful enough to defeat it if he devoured the five planets with "unique energies." It has been brought up as a counterargument that it doesn't make sense for Galactus to surpass his Lifebringer self by eating five special planets. However, it also doesn't make sense for base Galactus to elevate his power from starving 3-C to fully-fed 2-A. Despite the lack of logic in that power jump, it clearly happens and this type of power growth is completely normal for the character.
  3. This Galactus, after consuming the final planet, stated that "he was more powerful than he had ever been." That statement is already accepted on Thor's current Odinforce key. It stands to reason that he would need to be at least as strong as low 1-A Lifebringer Galactus in order to stand a chance against the Black Winter. There are also visual cues when Galactus eats each planet showing that he grows stronger by continually transforming.
  4. A criticism of this scaling that has been brought up is that regular Skyfather Thor consistently beat up this supposedly low 1-A amped Galactus. However, as summarized on Marvel Database, Thor broke Galactus' fingers and knee BEFORE Galactus even consumed the first planet. This represents a case of Odinforce + Power Cosmic Thor injuring a Galactus that had already been previously injured in the story and had not yet received any power boosts, so it is not in any way detrimental to this scaling chain. In Vol 3, Thor does defend himself against an attack from amped Galactus (3:43 in the video) and later drains the Power Cosmic from him again, but it is implied that he has a significant level of control over how much Power Cosmic he takes at a time. It is no longer up to Galactus how much energy Thor takes, so we cannot assume that he only has a level equal to previous Heralds. Thor directly states that he took Galactus' power, rather than Galactus giving it to him. What we're dealing with here is NOT Odinforce + Herald level of the PC, but Odinforce + as much PC as Thor wants to have at any given moment.
  5. It's been made clear that Thor's absorption is quite potent. In Thor 2020 Vol 6, Galactus states that he's stronger than ever before and blasts Thor ineffectually. Here Thor states AGAIN that he's taken Galactus' power, which is why he can withstand the attack. This is NOT normal Skyfather durability. This is Thor having already taken a significant amount of a ridiculously amped Galactus' strength, which is why he scales. He also downscales from the Black Winter at this level via the Godblast, which makes it bleed. During this altercation is when Thor completely drains all of Galactus' energy and uses it to destroy the Black Winter. Odinforce + Massively amped Power Cosmic (beyond even Lifebringer) = Low 1-A.
WHO IT SCALES TO: Nobody except Thor, Galactus, and the Black Winter. Thor completely uses up this power by killing the Black Winter and goes back to his normal Odinforce levels immediately after. His key should be At least 2-A. Up to Low 1-A via Absorption. for a) scaling to a fully fed Galactus at the beginning, b) after absorbing more amped PC overpowering a Galactus that was stronger than Lifebringer Galactus, and c) Holding all of that power at once and one-shotting the Black Winter, which destroyed the Sixth Multiverse.
 
I am uncertain, as I think that we likely scale Lifebringer Galactus and the current Jonathan Hickman & Al Ewing version of Marvel Comics cosmology way too high, and that Thor suddenly powering up by uncountably infinite degrees of infinity doesn't make any logical sense. In addition, Donny Cates himself has admitted outright that he deliberately goes out of his way to completely ignore rational comparative power levels in his stories.

However, I admit that going by our current scaling standards, The Black Winter should have the same tier as Mikaboshi, as it performed the same type of feat, and Thor managed to destroy it by turning Galactus' power into a bomb.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Alonik @Gasper @Confluctor @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb @Eseseso @Deagonx

What do you think about this?
 
I haven’t read this arc of Thor’s comics, so I’m not really comfortable with evaluating this.
 
Antvasima said:
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I'm somewhat skeptical. I have a few questions/opinions on what is in this thread. However, let it be known that I have not read the story.

NaturalDestroyer said:
the Black Winter was highlighted as the entity that destroyed the Sixth Multiverse. It is solidly Low 1-A.
Click to expand...
Are we default scaling this to the main Marvel multiverse or do we have specific info about this multiverse?

NaturalDestroyer said:
It has been brought up as a counterargument that it doesn't make sense for Galactus to surpass his Lifebringer self by eating five special planets. However, it also doesn't make sense for base Galactus to elevate his power from starving 3-C to fully-fed 2-A. Despite the lack of logic in that power jump, it clearly happens and this type of power growth is completely normal for the character.
Click to expand...
I understand the reasoning that Galactus' power scaling for his eating is far-fetched to begin with, but I would not immediately throw-out any sense of common-sense restraint on how we interpret this. Five planets to Low 1-A does seem very very strange even for Galactus standards.

Overall I think the scaling is solid, but this Low 1-A rating for the whole bunch seems kinda crazy to me.
 
Ehnkr2beboh said:
While I have read the run in question, I don't really scale the cosmology so I don't have much to add to the convo. Though, as OP mentions, Thor's godblast made Black Winter bleed, so assuming the upgrade goes through it should probably be something like "2-A. Up to Low 1-A via Absorption and the Godblast".
Click to expand...
This makes sense to me
 
Deagonx said:
I'm somewhat skeptical. I have a few questions/opinions on what is in this thread. However, let it be known that I have not read the story.


Are we default scaling this to the main Marvel multiverse or do we have specific info about this multiverse?


I understand the reasoning that Galactus' power scaling for his eating is far-fetched to begin with, but I would not immediately throw-out any sense of common-sense restraint on how we interpret this. Five planets to Low 1-A does seem very very strange even for Galactus standards.

Overall I think the scaling is solid, but this Low 1-A rating for the whole bunch seems kinda crazy to me.
Click to expand...
It is a little wild, but also very internally consistent. Silver Surfer had been keeping these five planets a secret because he knew that they would make Galactus absurdly powerful, which they did.
 
No problem. I keep being accused of hating DC Comics and Marvel Comics, and to have a vendetta against them because of that, but that is a severe oversimplification. I grew up with them, and love the older eras. I just don't like how much the characterisations and continuities have been changed in recent years, seemingly mainly in order to serve as onesided political propaganda, and have read so many of these comic books over the years that I have realised that they are extremely incoherent in terms of power levels, cosmology, characterisation, and continuity, so ill-considered chain-scaling would eventually lead to ALL of these characters ending up at 1-A. That is all.
 
Antvasima said:
No problem. I keep being accused of hating DC Comics and Marvel Comics, and to have a vendetta against them because of that, but that is a severe oversimplification. I grew up with them, and love the older eras. I just don't like how much the characterisations and continuities have been changed in recent years, seemingly mainly in order to serve as onesided political propaganda, and have read so many of these comic books over the years that I have realised that they are extremely incoherent in terms of power levels, cosmology, characterisation, and continuity, so ill-considered chain-scaling would eventually lead to ALL of these characters ending up at 1-A. That is all.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree that scaling could swiftly grow out of control. That's why I made sure to lay out a case for this upgrade that wouldn't necessitate any scaling changes to any character that wasn't directly involved in the story. There's no reason to cause further headaches for anyone.
 
I re-added an image of Thor's herald of thunder incarnation:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics)#Herald_of_Thunder

By the way, should we remove the image for Thor's "unworthy" Jason Aaron incarnation? I would rather forget that any stories produced by Aaron in his neverending agenda to distort, debase, degrade, vilify, scapegoat, and defile western culture as much as possible have ever existed.
 
Antvasima said:
By the way, should we remove the image for Thor's "unworthy" Jason Aaron incarnation? I would rather forget that any stories produced by Aaron in his neverending agenda to distort, debase, degrade, vilify, scapegoat, and defile western culture as much as possible have ever existed.
Click to expand...
agree with that
 
Antvasima said:
By the way, should we remove the image for Thor's "unworthy" Jason Aaron incarnation? I would rather forget that any stories produced by Aaron in his neverending agenda to distort, debase, degrade, vilify, scapegoat, and defile western culture as much as possible have ever existed.
Click to expand...
I mean, isn't it a big part of Thor's history?
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I mean, isn't it a big part of Thor's history?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, yes. I may be abusing my power a bit if I remove it. I just really can't stand Aaron. He seems to have a relentless vendetta to destroy any western superhero characters that I care about as much as possible.
 
In any case, should we consider Thor's herald of thunder incarnation to be separate from regular Odinforce Thor or not? If we do, it did not last for long enough to include according to our rules.
 
Antvasima said:
I re-added an image of Thor's herald of thunder incarnation:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics)#Herald_of_Thunder

By the way, should we remove the image for Thor's "unworthy" Jason Aaron incarnation? I would rather forget that any stories produced by Aaron in his neverending agenda to distort, debase, degrade, vilify, scapegoat, and defile western culture as much as possible have ever existed.
Click to expand...
Thank you for assisting with that!

As far as Unworthy Thor goes, wasn't there a recent initiative to create a full key for him since he's so popularly searched for? I understand disliking the era, but it was influential and there are a large number of people curious about power scaling that version of Thor.
 
Well, Rune King Thor constituted an end to an era, as all of the Asgardians died and had to be resurrected after a rather long break, so it is a much more significant event. On the other hand, herald Thor killed Galactus, so that is also quite significant.

I suppose that "unworthy"/Aaron Thor can stay then, despite being distasteful. A new statistics key would probably be useful for him, yes.
 
Well, the main issue here is if this power-up was significant enough to be included as a separate key, or if it is reliable to merge it with Thor's regular Odinforce key.
 
Yes, that is true, but in that case, are 5 appearances really sufficient to include it? Sure, I like Thor, but it would be unfair to other characters if we give him special treatment in this regard, and I think that we require a minimum of 10 appearances or being extremely significant in order to feature these types of temporary power-ups for Marvel and DC Comics characters.
 
Antvasima said:
Yes, that is true, but in that case, are 5 appearances really sufficient to include it? Sure, I like Thor, but it would be unfair to other characters if we give him special treatment in this regard, and I think that we require a minimum of 10 appearances or being extremely significant in order to feature these types of temporary power-ups for Marvel and DC Comics characters.
Click to expand...
I definitely understand your hesitance concerning the issue. That said, as mentioned before Cosmic King Thor is quite well-known especially in debate circles, and it would be remiss of us as a wiki not to include such an impactful and powerful version of the character.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ObberGobb
  • Locked
Avengers: EMH Big Revisions (No More Tier 5)
2
Replies
50
Views
3K
ObberGobb
ObberGobb
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
A Small Thor Update
2 3
Replies
87
Views
8K
Antvasima
Antvasima
IdiosyncraticLawyer
  • Locked
Marvel Comics: High 1-B for The Worldship Database
Replies
13
Views
1K
Antvasima
Antvasima
  • Locked
2-B MCU Thor & Thanos: WoG Proofs
2 3 4
Replies
128
Views
6K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
IdiosyncraticLawyer
  • Locked
Marvel Comics: Thor vs. World Engine
Replies
22
Views
3K
IdiosyncraticLawyer
IdiosyncraticLawyer
Back
Top