Marvel Comics: Revising the Cosmic Hierarchy

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks again.

Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[Kepekley23]

I think this can be closed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.

 

[Antvasima]

On second thought, we preferably need some kind of discussion rule that links to this thread, in order to avoid constantly repeated arguments.

 

[Kepekley23]

Probably, but I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head.

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate help from other members with writing a draft then. I can clean up the structure and grammar afterwards, if necessary.

 

[PsychoWarper]

So basically you want to add a new rule for discussion threads to try and avoid repetitive arguments and going in circles?

Or is it specifically for this topic (Marvel 1-As to High 1-B [Outside a select few])?

 

[Kepekley23]

By the way, can it be considered that the 8th Multiverse's incarnation of Multi-Eternity is on the level of the Original Tribunal?

Considering Adam Warlock's Tribunal was stated to be one of the abstracts that composed Multi-Eternity, both in the storyline and by Word of God on an interview, it would seem that he was an embodiment of the multiverse on the same level as the original TLT - all the multiversal abstracts became part of him.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

@Ant How about something like this:

"Please refrain from attempting to upgrade the Living Tribunal and Pre-Retcon Beyonder to 1-A based on transcending the multiverse. As stated in the Outerverse page, that is not enough to qualify for 1-A."

@Kep

I don't know if that's enough to call them literal equals in power, but I think they could at least be assumed to be comparable.

 

[Kepekley23]

I mean, Multi-Eternity's current importance in the shattered hierarchy certainly seems comparable.

"Do not attempt to upgrade the Pre-Retcon Beyonder and The Living Tribunal to Outerverse level based off of them transcending space and time or being Transdual entities. There was a large discussion thread about the issue, and it was determined that the statements surrounding them do not meet our standards for the tier in question."

 

[CorporateJ]

Sorry but this whole thread is stupid and meant to severly nerf/downplay Marvel's top dogs ie Beyonder,Tribunal,MM

 

[PsychoWarper]

Sorry but this whole thread is stupid and meant to severly nerf/downplay Marvel's top dogs ie Beyonder,Tribunal,MM

You know simply saying that doesnt mean shit, you wanna change it then prove TLT, MM and Beyonder are 1-A.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Believe me Corp you are going to need to fight for that type of claim since we have a whole discussion talking about this information.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Didn't Galactus claim the Beyonder was beyond the multiverse in the original Secret Wars?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

"beyond the Multiverse" doesn't automatically equal 1-A without further context. It could just mean that he is only somewhat above baseline High 1-B.

 

[CorporateJ]

Tons of weaker characters have better feats than stated stronger characters. By your logic, TOAA should be human level then lmao. Oblivion being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT is so rediculous I bet half of you don't actually believe it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Didn't Galactus claim the Beyonder was beyond the multiverse in the original Secret Wars?

In the exact same scene the Beyonder's multiverse is linked together with the normal multiverse, yes.

Some people seem to have forgotten that "beyond" means "outside" instead of "surpass"

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Hooo boy

 

[Kepekley23]

Anyway, this thread has already been concluded at this point.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems reasonable to consider Multi-Eternity to have replaced the Living Tribunal as the top dog within the Marvel multiverse, yes.

"Do not attempt to upgrade the Pre-Retcon Beyonder and The Living Tribunal to Outerverse level based off of them transcending space and time or being Transdual entities. There was a large discussion thread about the issue, and it was determined that the statements surrounding them do not meet our standards for the tier in question."

This seems fine to add to the Discussion Rules page.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Didn't Galactus claim the Beyonder was beyond the multiverse in the original Secret Wars?

In the exact same scene the Beyonder's multiverse is linked together with the normal multiverse, yes.

Some people seem to have forgotten that "beyond" means "outside" instead of "surpass"

However isn't the multiverse compared to drop in the ocean in the beyond realm

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Beyonder even stated that the beyond realm is without any conception of space and the concepts of the multiverse and that he is larger than the Multiverse as well so this doesn't seems like just being outside.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

So yeah the beyonders confirms himself to belarger than the multiverse and to be beyondtime and space conceptually.

 

[Kepekley23]

...That scan doesn't say anything remotely like that. It further reinforces my point, if anything, as it once again shows the Beyonder Realm can be linked with the normal multiverse with no problem.

The "larger than the multiverse" stuff is literally my point.

You keep adding "conceptually" where there is none.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

I'm all of it including the space! Though concept, I know....

Beyonder can be both the concept time and space if he decides to be. The realm it self is originally without time and space.

 

[Antvasima]

A universe was stated to be a drop of water to the Beyond Realm, not the multiverse.

 

[Davidsteel1]

"Tough concept" not "Though concept"

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

That wouldn't make much sense. as the beyonder stated the multiverse is a collective of universes and dimensions if the beyond realm only view the universe as a drop that would mean there is a seperated universe outside the multiverse. and the fact that this scan seems to call the universe a multiverse .

 

[Antvasima]

The opening text explicitly stated that a universe was as a drop of water in the ocean to the Beyond Realm. That's what the writer, Jim Shooter intended, whether or not it makes sense.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Sometimes the writers of Marvel use the term "universe" like the term "multiverse". Like in the original Secret Wars, it says the fate of the universe is in the heroes' hands, when it's clear that it's way more than just one universe at stake.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm all of it including the space! Though concept, I know....

Beyonder can be both the concept time and space if he decides to be. The realm it self is originally without time and space.

He says "tough" concept. This is literally proof of...nothing. This is just him saying "hard to wrap your head around that, eh?'

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

I'm not arguing for Outerversal Marvel. I'm just saying that sometimes, the writers use the term universe instead of multiverse.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

@memes

Yeah Like in here the Universe refered as multiverse here

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

@kep make sense.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Just letting everybody know, HOTU Thanos hasn't been downgraded yet.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

I'm going to disagree with AAO being above Oblivion.

AAO was only stated to be beyond the multiverse while oblivion is stated to be transcendent to creation and everything within the nothingness.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

AAO could also be affected by objects(forgot the name of it) within realities and isn't supreme when the multiverse isn't in balance while oblivion isn't part of the multiverse or realities.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Just letting everybody know, HOTU Thanos hasn't been downgraded yet.

I dont think he was discussed in this so far.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

He's directly scaled from The Living Tribunal. Unless he's equal to AAO, he should be downgraded.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well his justification is "Outerverse level (The Heart was created by The One Above All, and allowed Thanos to even absorb The Living Tribunal)" which while it mentions TLT I dont think he directly scales.

Plus wasnt wasnt the AAO unable to stop Thanos in the story or something?