Masked Obito should get a speed revision

[MinatoSparkle]

So YM Obito, as we all know, fought Minato, and while Minato showed clear superiority to him on multiple occassions, it's enough that he likely scales to Sub-Relativistic. OM Obito also has sub-relativistic feats, reacting to Ay's blitz at the FKS and (not sure if this counts as MS Sasuke only has sub-rel reactions on his profile, but he did attack Ay before he could react) MS Sasuke trying to cut through him with a chidori.

As for WM Obito, I don't think he's on BM Naruto's level in terms of speed as he got hit by him a couple times, but he did also react to him and catch him with a wood style entrapment, so I think he should be At least Sub-Relativistic, likely Relativistic/with Relativistic reactions.

This might also mean WA Kakashi is relativistic, but the whole fight with Obito was weird as he wanted to be stabbed. Discuss that amongst yourselves I guess, though I'm leaning towards Kakashi not scaling, as he more consistently scales around the kcm Naruto and 6 gates Guy level.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why are Obito's Tobi and Fourth Shinobi World War keys separate? The only that changed was his mask, so tabbers with new images is understandable, but if I recall correctly, Obito did no training and did not receive any powerups aside from attaining the Rinnegan, so his stats should be combined.

Anyway...

So YM Obito, as we all know, fought Minato, and while Minato showed clear superiority to him on multiple occassions, it's enough that he likely scales to Sub-Relativistic.

Masked Man only ever managed to tag Minato after fooling him with his Kamui. Even then, Minato was capable of outmaneuvering and evading his sneak attacks and once he figured out the Masked Man's technique worked, he managed to strike the Masked Man twice over, with the latter being unable of reacting to him. So, the Masked Man has really no reason to be scaling to Minato; although, he was not glaringly inferior to him, so his current rating is cool. It might be better to rate him as Unknown, though.

OM Obito also has sub-relativistic feats, reacting to Ay's blitz at the FKS and (not sure if this counts as MS Sasuke only has sub-rel reactions on his profile, but he did attack Ay before he could react) MS Sasuke trying to cut through him with a chidori.

I agree. Tobi is portrayed as overwhelmingly superior to his opposition, even when he is not taking the fight seriously. He is nonchalantly outmaneuvering characters like Taka Sasuke and Konan and can evade attacks from Lightning Cloak Ay, all of which add up to Sub-Relativistic. There is also a CRT that sets out to get Chidori listed as a speed multiplier, so him reacting to Sasuke's Chidori will prove to be even more significant in the future.

As for WM Obito, I don't think he's on BM Naruto's level in terms of speed as he got hit by him a couple times, but he did also react to him and catch him with a wood style entrapment, so I think he should be At least Sub-Relativistic, likely Relativistic/with Relativistic reactions.

Obito was capable of keeping up with both Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto and Kakashi's Chidori on multiple occasions, evading several of their attacks, and even getting some good hits in on Naruto. He should scale to Naruto, but Kakashi would be upgraded as a result, so eh... It is not inconsistent, but it is probably a bit controversial.

 

[LordTracer]

Why are Obito's Tobi and Fourth Shinobi World War keys separate? The only that changed was his mask, so tabbers with new images is understandable, but if I recall correctly, Obito did no training and did not receive any powerups aside from attaining the Rinnegan, so his stats should be combined.

Yeah, no. Obito got far stronger in between his time as an Akatsuki member and the Fourth Shinobi World War.

Tobi nearly got killed by Konan’s explosives, and iirc, base Naruto tanked a punch from him. Rinnegan Obito overpowered KCM Naruto and could take hits from KCM2 Naruto. There’s clearly an increase in strength here.

 

[M3X_2.0]

CRTs meant to change only one character, while it affects a bunch of other different characters should not be allowed. If Obito's speed change, then Guy, Kakashi, KCM and such, changes. Just like your Minato CRT, if you change Minato's Tier, you change a lot of different characters' Tier.

 

[Damage3245]

Is it just me or has there been a lot of speed revisions for specific characters in Naruto lately?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Is it just me or has there been a lot of speed revisions for specific characters in Naruto lately?

YES!

 

[M3X_2.0]

You are right. Naruto is a huge verse. Change X character and consequently you need to revise a lot of different characters. Threads like this one shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Damage3245]

Masked Man only ever managed to tag Minato after fooling him with his Kamui. Even then, Minato was capable of outmaneuvering and evading his sneak attacks and once he figured out the Masked Man's technique worked, he managed to strike the Masked Man twice over, with the latter being unable of reacting to him. So, the Masked Man has really no reason to be scaling to Minato; although, he was not glaringly inferior to him, so his current rating is cool. It might be better to rate him as Unknown, though.

I agree with this. Obito shouldn't be scaling to Minato.

I agree. Tobi is portrayed as overwhelmingly superior to his opposition, even when he is not taking the fight seriously. He is nonchalantly outmaneuvering characters like Taka Sasuke and Konan and can evade attacks from Lightning Cloak Ay, all of which add up to Sub-Relativistic. There is also a CRT that sets out to get Chidori listed as a speed multiplier, so him reacting to Sasuke's Chidori will prove to be even more significant in the future.

Regarding his feat against Ay, isn't that purely reaction speed?

You are right. Naruto is a huge verse. Change X character and consequently you need to revise a lot of different characters. Threads like this one shouldn't be allowed.

I agree. We've put in a lot of work in order to sort out the scaling and ratings for the characters, for the most part. New sudden changes could affect things greatly if not evaluated carefully.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Damage, I asked this thread to be closed. I don't think revising Obito and ignoring character that would scale to him is a good idea. However, we can make a CRT to address those who scales + Obito. That's better imo.

 

[KingTempest]

How is him evading Ay a feat? He has passive Kamui. We have no indication that he reacted

 

[Damage3245]

@GokuSparkle; is it okay if we close this thread for now and examine this issue at a later date?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

CRTs meant to change only one character, while it affects a bunch of other different characters should not be allowed. If Obito's speed change, then Guy, Kakashi, KCM and such, changes. Just like your Minato CRT, if you change Minato's Tier, you change a lot of different characters' Tier.

Well actually he did handily react to everything Naruto and Guy threw, so they wouldn't necessarily scale, only when Naruto went KCM2 was he fast enough to catch Obito with some attacks like the rasengan to the face and headbutting him. Theoretically only WM Obito and WA Kakashi would get a relativistic upgrade, though it's more likely just Obito since he meant to be stabbed and all, and for OM, well no one really ever fought and damaged him other than Konan but that was with a ton of prep time and she didn't exactly keep up in terms of speed, just placing paper bombs among the ones she threw.

@GokuSparkle; is it okay if we close this thread for now and examine this issue at a later date?

Uh well I suppose though idk why a CRT for multiple characters isn't allowed.

 

[LordTracer]

Honestly, the whole verse needs a speed revision. Again.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

We'll revise speed later. These single character CRTs just don't work for the most part.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Honestly, the whole verse needs a speed revision. Again.

(hehe I get another chance to convince people da yellow flash is rel+)

We'll revise speed later. These single character CRTs just don't work for the most part.

idk I really feel like Obito doesn't have anyone that would upscale with him.

 

[Cyberblader90]

why are there so many crts?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

why are there so many crts?

because there are a lot of things that need revisions?

 

[LordTracer]

idk I really feel like Obito doesn't have anyone that would upscale with him.

Konan

 

[LightReinh12345]

Why are Obito's Tobi and Fourth Shinobi World War keys separate? The only that changed was his mask, so tabbers with new images is understandable, but if I recall correctly, Obito did no training and did not receive any powerups aside from attaining the Rinnegan, so his stats should be combined.

Anyway...

Masked Man only ever managed to tag Minato after fooling him with his Kamui. Even then, Minato was capable of outmaneuvering and evading his sneak attacks and once he figured out the Masked Man's technique worked, he managed to strike the Masked Man twice over, with the latter being unable of reacting to him. So, the Masked Man has really no reason to be scaling to Minato; although, he was not glaringly inferior to him, so his current rating is cool. It might be better to rate him as Unknown, though.


I agree. Tobi is portrayed as overwhelmingly superior to his opposition, even when he is not taking the fight seriously. He is nonchalantly outmaneuvering characters like Taka Sasuke and Konan and can evade attacks from Lightning Cloak Ay, all of which add up to Sub-Relativistic. There is also a CRT that sets out to get Chidori listed as a speed multiplier, so him reacting to Sasuke's Chidori will prove to be even more significant in the future.


Obito was capable of keeping up with both Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto and Kakashi's Chidori on multiple occasions, evading several of their attacks, and even getting some good hits in on Naruto. He should scale to Naruto, but Kakashi would be upgraded as a result, so eh... It is not inconsistent, but it is probably a bit controversial.

Didnt obito get Rinngean in war Arc ?! As playing Tobi he was only using MS

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Konan

Well actually he did handily react to everything Naruto and Guy threw, so they wouldn't necessarily scale, only when Naruto went KCM2 was he fast enough to catch Obito with some attacks like the rasengan to the face and headbutting him. Theoretically only WM Obito and WA Kakashi would get a relativistic upgrade, though it's more likely just Obito since he meant to be stabbed and all, and for OM, well no one really ever fought and damaged him other than Konan but that was with a ton of prep time and she didn't exactly keep up in terms of speed, just placing paper bombs among the ones she threw.

Didnt obito get Rinngean in war Arc ?! As playing Tobi he was only using MS

I think what null means is that getting the rinnegan shouldn't increase Obito's physical stats, just giving him access to more abilities, and while I don't necessarily disagree, I think it's a case similar to Kakashi in that Obito DID get a stat boost because it's the war arc where everyone gets a buff for some reason.

 

[LightReinh12345]

I think what null means is that getting the rinnegan shouldn't increase Obito's physical stats, just giving him access to more abilities, and while I don't necessarily disagree, I think it's a case similar to Kakashi in that Obito DID get a stat boost because it's the war arc where everyone gets a buff for some reason.

They get plot buff actually iin war Arc lol but in obito's case U can argue rinnegan buff him somewhat he did show far better feats than Normal yellow mask one & also null said the only change was his mask & I replied no only mask but it was also the eye thats all now rinnegan may not or may give buffs but what Matters he got far stronger in war Arc due to plot or rinnegan or whatever weird reason

 

[LordTracer]

Or the Rinnegan is what amped him because it’s consistently shown to be an amp, like with Madara and Sasuke.

Also let’s not do this “Konan only did so well because of prep” stuff, her “prep” was obviously the creation of the paper sea.

 

[LightReinh12345]

Or the Rinnegan is what amped him because it’s consistently shown to be an amp, like with Madara and Sasuke.

Also let’s not do this “Konan only did so well because of prep” stuff, her “prep” was obviously the creation of the paper sea.

Yeah Sasuke & Madra Got amp

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Or the Rinnegan is what amped him because it’s consistently shown to be an amp, like with Madara and Sasuke.

Also let’s not do this “Konan only did so well because of prep” stuff, her “prep” was obviously the creation of the paper sea.

Madara didn't actually show a power buff with 1 rinnegan other than limbo, it's said consistently with dojutsu that having both together is what amps your power a lot. It can be assumed one will also buff your stats but it's less concrete.

the fact that he casually found the precise moment when none of the paper was inside him shows pretty clear perception superioity, as well as him grabbing her throat like nothing. The only thing that surprised him was the paper bombs, because prep and not taking her seriously enough as he later said.

He literally says that he's faster than her with prep, yet she scales? Eh...

 

[KingTempest]

Nobody got amps from rinnegans except vague statements, let's not do this today

 

[MinatoSparkle]

How is him evading Ay a feat? He has passive Kamui. We have no indication that he reacted

Well it seems this thread has continued, so I will respond to this now: what proof is there that he has passive kamui on? None.

Nobody got amps from rinnegans except vague statements, let's not do this today

Double Rinnegan Madara>1 Rinnegan Madara both in statements and showings.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Madara went from getting ragdolled by the Bijū, to essentially one-shotting them by acquiring a Rinnegan.
His second Rinnegan also clearly gave him a boost, as he managed to match Naruto and Sasuke, when he was losing to them badly prior to that.

Obito could barely handle the power of one Rinnegan.

Sasuke clearly got buffed by acquiring his Rinnegan, and will likely be shown to be weaker without it (which Borushiki already implied).

Yeah, let's just NOT have this discussion, shall we?

 

[KingTempest]

Well it seems this thread has continued, so I will respond to this now: what proof is there that he has passive kamui on? None.

The databook, which says the ability is passive

Kamui​

• Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, Offensive, Defensive, All ranges
• User(s): Uchiha Obito, Hatake Kakashi

The godly eyes that conquer fate’s horizon!!

Coercing into another dimension!!

A Doujutsu that transfers objects into the dimension created with the Mangekyou Sharingan. In proportion to the amount of chakra the user holds, the possible transferable mass of the target is increased or decreased. A skilled user can also transfer his own body. Furthermore, there’s a subtle difference in the powers of the left and right eyes. The left eye hurls distant objects into the dimension by fixating them, the right eye unconsciously makes a body part slip-through by transfering it. Additionally, by having both eyes, Susano’o appears and it is possible to apply Kamui’s powers to its weapons.

Objects are transfered immediately into the dimension. The distance of the right eye’s effect is short. The ability to make the body “slip-through” is the ability of Obito’s own right eye.

"the right eye unconsciously makes a body part slip-through by transfering it."

Passive

Double Rinnegan Madara>1 Rinnegan Madara both in statements and showings.

Which showings exactly?

Madara went from getting ragdolled by the Bijū, to essentially one-shotting them by acquiring a Rinnegan.

Hashirama Cells

His second Rinnegan also clearly gave him a boost, as he managed to match Naruto and Sasuke, when he was losing to them badly prior to that.

He chopped a Naruto's TSO, the only antifeat was the getting chopped by Sasuke's Chidori blade, which is stated to have superior cutting power than his base, and was passively getting more chakra from the infinite Tsukuyomi.
He matched Naruto's clones who used no ninjutsu, and that whole thing was PIS since they flat out said "physical attacks don't work on Limbo clones" so idk why that was a thing

Obito could barely handle the power of one Rinnegan.

Which could be chakra, not speed like the OP says.

Sasuke clearly got buffed by acquiring his Rinnegan, and will likely be shown to be weaker without it (which Borushiki already implied).

He was given Six Paths Chakra and 2 different sources of Hashirama cells.

Yeah, let's just NOT have this discussion, shall we?

I mean, we don't have to

 

[Axxtentacle]

Isn't Obito's only speed justification for keeping up with Minato...? Wouldn't he just be sub-rel for that unless we're nuking that?

 

[LordTracer]

He literally says that he's faster than her with prep, yet she scales? Eh...

Tbh I was thinking about AP more than anything with the whole prep thing.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Isn't Obito's only speed justification for keeping up with Minato...? Wouldn't he just be sub-rel for that unless we're nuking that?

Masked Man only ever managed to tag Minato after fooling him with his Kamui. Even then, Minato was capable of outmaneuvering and evading his sneak attacks and once he figured out the Masked Man's technique worked, he managed to strike the Masked Man twice over, with the latter being unable of reacting to him. So, the Masked Man has really no reason to be scaling to Minato; although, he was not glaringly inferior to him, so his current rating is cool. It might be better to rate him as Unknown, though.

 

[Kin201]

How is him evading Ay a feat? He has passive Kamui. We have no indication that he reacted

He reacts to Ay here.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara went from getting ragdolled by the Bijū, to essentially one-shotting them by acquiring a Rinnegan.
His second Rinnegan also clearly gave him a boost, as he managed to match Naruto and Sasuke, when he was losing to them badly prior to that.

Obito could barely handle the power of one Rinnegan.

Sasuke clearly got buffed by acquiring his Rinnegan, and will likely be shown to be weaker without it (which Borushiki already implied).

Yeah, let's just NOT have this discussion, shall we?

Well Rinnegan Madara is obviously stronger than Blind Madara, but that seems to mainly be because of how OP Limbo is against anyone that doesn't have six paths sensory abilities or a fellow Rinnegan.

Having both does clearly boost someone.

Pretty vague statement but good supporting evidence.

oof I still need to catch up with Boruto.

lol fair enough I do think the Rinnegan boosts your power but there's not enough 1 rinnegan showings to concretely prove that alone boosts your physical power rather than gives you abilities.

The databook, which says the ability is passive


"the right eye unconsciously makes a body part slip-through by transfering it."

Passive

Which showings exactly?

Hashirama Cells

He chopped a Naruto's TSO, the only antifeat was the getting chopped by Sasuke's Chidori blade, which is stated to have superior cutting power than his base, and was passively getting more chakra from the infinite Tsukuyomi.
He matched Naruto's clones who used no ninjutsu, and that whole thing was PIS since they flat out said "physical attacks don't work on Limbo clones" so idk why that was a thing

Which could be chakra, not speed like the OP says.

He was given Six Paths Chakra and 2 different sources of Hashirama cells.

I mean, we don't have to

It has a 5 minute limit though, and also if that WAS the case then how would Obito have EVER been hit?

Being stomped by Naruto and Sasuke to putting up a good fight

He already had Hashirama cells when he fought them blind

He still didn't react to the chidori blade. And even so, there was a instant difference with 2 rinnegan, not just a gradual one. Also where exactly was this stated?

Yeah the speed difference is from riding the war arc powercliff, hanging with his bro Kakashi.

And does he lose this from losing an eye?

Isn't Obito's only speed justification for keeping up with Minato...? Wouldn't he just be sub-rel for that unless we're nuking that?

I don't think he kept up with Minato but I think he's close enough he's likely sub-rel

Tbh I was thinking about AP more than anything with the whole prep thing.

I mean...this isn't an AP CRT.

He reacts to Ay here.

true, the exclamation mark means he perceived it, which means he had time to turn on kamui whether or not he actually did

 

[LordTracer]

I mean...this isn't an AP CRT.

I know, that’s my bad, but the main reason I see people saying “Konan had prep lol” is to say her AP doesn’t scale to Obito.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hashirama Cells

Can you actually prove that? Because he said that he'll show them the Rinnegan's true power before one-shotting them, not Hashirama's power.

He chopped a Naruto's TSO, the only antifeat was the getting chopped by Sasuke's Chidori blade, which is stated to have superior cutting power than his base, and was passively getting more chakra from the infinite Tsukuyomi.

Chopped Naruto's TSO with Light Fang, which also has superior cutting power than his base, and Naruto literally clobbered his face a second later.
It's not an anti-feat, it just means Sasuke had enough AP to cut him at that very moment.
He wasn't getting chakra from the IT because he hadn't even activated the Jutsu yet, and he literally absorbed the tree before fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Like huhhh????

He matched Naruto's clones who used no ninjutsu, and that whole thing was PIS since they flat out said "physical attacks don't work on Limbo clones" so idk why that was a thing

Without using Ninjutsu himself, the same Naruto who downscales from Kaguya, the same Kaguya who later one shot Sasuke's PS casually, the same Sasuke who casually chopped him in half in base before he got his second Rinnegan.
It's not PIS because in the same panel, they say that Six Paths chakra bypasses the Limbo's intangibility. And guess who uses Six Paths Chakra? That's right, Naruto.

Which could be chakra, not speed like the OP says.

I'm not arguing about speed, I'm strictly arguing against the claim that it doesn't offer any kind of boost to strength. As far as the OP is concerned I think it should be closed, and speed be handled later tbh.

He was given Six Paths Chakra and 2 different sources of Hashirama cells

And a Rinnegan, so it's not like him getting other sources of power contradicts the Rinnegan also being a power source. The jump Sasuke made was probably the biggest, since he was weaker than Naruto and Madara prior to their respective amps, meaning he had more ground to cover.

I mean, we don't have to

I concur.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I know, that’s my bad, but the main reason I see people saying “Konan had prep lol” is to say her AP doesn’t scale to Obito.

I mean it's not like Obito is especially known for his durability anyways. I don't think Konan is anywhere near his level in terms of overall battle prowess, but her attacks are technically on his durability level.

I'm not arguing about speed, I'm strictly arguing against the claim that it doesn't offer any kind of boost to strength. As far as the OP is concerned I think it should be closed, and speed be handled later tbh.

Just wondering, given the arguments I've made throughout the thread, why would Obito's speed affect other characters?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Just wondering, given the arguments I've made throughout the thread, why would Obito's speed affect other characters?

We would have to discuss other characters such as Konan, Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke, etc.
These characters scale to more characters in turn, and it just gets outta hand. I'm not saying you can't argue for Obito, I think he should be upgraded too (assuming the current ratings survive lol), but I just prefer we do this in full on speed revisions to deal with all the characters at once.

 

[LordTracer]

I mean it's not like Obito is especially known for his durability anyways.

Actually he’s pretty consistently shown to be a brick wall. He survived Minato’s Rasengan, and Minato’s AP is vastly higher than his. And during the War, his AP scaled to KCM but he could take hits from KCM2.

But this is derailing.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Actually, yea. Attaining Six Paths power, which the Rinnegan grants, increases the user's power; Madara noted that Naruto's power increased after receiving Six Paths power from Hagoromo, and the Jin no Sho states that Six Paths power increases the strength of the user's abilities.

 

[KingTempest]

Spoiler: Kin201

He reacts to Ay here.

Zooming into their face is not reacting, because when I used the exact same thing to talk about how some people "reacted" to instant amaterasu, it got shut down.

Spoiler: GokuSparkle

It has a 5 minute limit though, and also if that WAS the case then how would Obito have EVER been hit?

Being stomped by Naruto and Sasuke to putting up a good fight

He already had Hashirama cells when he fought them blind

He still didn't react to the chidori blade. And even so, there was a instant difference with 2 rinnegan, not just a gradual one. Also where exactly was this stated?

Yeah the speed difference is from riding the war arc powercliff, hanging with his bro Kakashi.

And does he lose this from losing an eye?

Was the 5 minute limit done when Ay rushed him? No.

Downplay, he didn't get "stomped", he got chopped in half while he was offguard and that was the only antifeat. He tanked a hit from both of them together and he sent Naruto flying.

And he got even more when he chopped his arm off and replaced it with Zetsu cells.

He was off guard while trying to put an eyeball in his head and Sasuke used Shunshin. And where was it stated? https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0674-006.png

No, he doesn't lose it from losing an eye.

Spoiler: UchihaSlayer96

Can you actually prove that? Because he said that he'll show them the Rinnegan's true power before one-shotting them, not Hashirama's power.

Didn't he use an invisible limbo clone?
He said "if I use the rinnegan's true powers, we should see a sophisticated battle" then used invisible Limbo and the Gedo Statue, 2 rinnegan abilities.
Which is justified by the databook which says

The user gains a duplicate of himself that besides having the same skills, he is still invisible. In a fight against the user, a counterattack is impossible, resulting in the defeat of the opponent, even at a high level.

So yeah

Chopped Naruto's TSO with Light Fang, which also has superior cutting power than his base, and Naruto literally clobbered his face a second later.
It's not an anti-feat, it just means Sasuke had enough AP to cut him at that very moment.
He wasn't getting chakra from the IT because he hadn't even activated the Jutsu yet, and he literally absorbed the tree before fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Like huhhh????

Naruto didn't clobber anybody, he bruised his arm then got sent flying and got blood drawn from the limbo clone.
So when did Sasuke have any feats of relativity to the 1 rinnegan madara? He tanked a rasengan and chidori from Naruto and Sasuke. I don't see improvement

Without using Ninjutsu himself, the same Naruto who downscales from Kaguya, the same Kaguya who later one shot Sasuke's PS casually, the same Sasuke who casually chopped him in half in base before he got his second Rinnegan.
It's not PIS because in the same panel, they say that Six Paths chakra bypasses the Limbo's intangibility. And guess who uses Six Paths Chakra? That's right, Naruto.

So why didn't Sasuke's blade, which he imbues with chakra on the regular, not stab the limbo clone?

And a Rinnegan, so it's not like him getting other sources of power contradicts the Rinnegan also being a power source. The jump Sasuke made was probably the biggest, since he was weaker than Naruto and Madara prior to their respective amps, meaning he had more ground to cover.

Didn't he lose the rinnegan and still hand in hand fight the dude who destroyed his rinnegan?

Edit: Stop using "Both rinnegan too strong for 1 person" as "my arms get stronger when I use a rinnegan". Kakashi and Obito flat out deconfirm it, and Madara elaborates and says "they both used Kamui and it got doubled in speed" and Madara had 3 extra limbo clones after he got Rinnegan.

Dojutsu doesn't amp physicals. Damn