Maui downgrade

[LeopoldTheBrave]

The tale of Maui taming the sun goes as follows...

"Maui, with the help of his brothers and the jawbone of his ancestress, ra to the sun as it was rising from the pit it slept i and beat it until it promised to move slower across the sky so the days would be longer."

In Polynesian mythology, the sun is personified by another deity named Tamanuitera whose power is unknown. This is who Maui beat, not a real sun from space.

So Maui's Tier 4 stats should be removed imo. Not even "possibly."

Source: This place archives and compiles all kinds of Maori myths and stories. Check out any other source on Maui taming the sun. They all tell the same story.

 

[Ryukama]

I haven't seen the entire movie yet, so please correct me if I am mistaken, however weren't there also tales of Maui pulling the sun, in which it was depicted as a celestial body?

Regardless I guess I am alright with a downgrade if other staff agree upon it.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

I haven't seen the entire movie yet, so please correct me if I am mistaken, however weren't there also tales of Maui pulling the sun, in which it was depicted as a celestial body?

Regardless I guess I am alright with a downgrade if other staff agree upon it.

I've checked multiple sources to make sure this is the case and it is. Even the Wikipedia article on Maui made sure to refer to the sun as "him" instead of a celestial object. The sun (Tamanuitera) always promises to move slower, acting as a living being instead of being an object Maui slowed down by pulling. The sun even had a wife and children.

 

[Ryukama]

If the Disney movie is based entirely upon the myth, then I agree not to have him rated 4-C.

The myth seems to clearly lack the knowledge of the sun being remotely as big as we've discovered it to be, as well as the narrative not depicting it as that large. Along with the fact that it's an actual living creature.

I was only asking if anything in the Disney movie tells the story closer to what the real world sun actually is. If not, I support the downgrade.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The movie is not based entirely on the myth, especially because the tattoo of the feat is shown as Maui literally tugging on the sun. Disney being Disney, they took creative liberties. And obviously, the sun is shown smaller, because it's shown on someone's body tattoos.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

The myth seems to clearly lack the knowledge of the sun being remotely as big as we've discovered it to be, as well as the narrative not depicting it as that large. Along with the fact that it's an actual living creature.

Hooo yeah. The Greeks were definitely the big astronomers. Polynesians didn't exactly know what space was lol.

 

[Reppuzan]

It's explained in his song that he lasso'd the sun single-handedly in Maui's Disney rendition, which takes numerous creative liberties (i.e. Maui being abandoned by his parents and left to drown) In addition, said Sun is implied to be the same as the Sun in the sky.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

The movie is not based entirely on the myth, especially because the tattoo of the feat is shown as Maui literally tugging on the sun. Disney being Disney, they took creative liberties. And obviously, the sun is shown smaller, because it's shown on someone's body tattoos.

That's just the symbol of Tamanuitera. His face is used in all Maori depictions of the sun, but is described to have a humanoid body in Maori folklore.

"Tamanuiter─ü slowly emerged from the deep pit, not knowing that a trap was set for him. His head went through the noose and then his shoulders"

 

[Legion350]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I also did not get the impression of anywhere near tier 4-C statistics for Maui within the movie. High 8-C at most.

However, given that he supposedly dragged up small islands from the bottom of the sea, 7-C to 7-B may be a possibility.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Ant

I haven't seen Moana myself, but I'm pretty sure "not getting the impression" of a character's power is not a good justifcation for a downgrade. If you play KH, does it give you the impression the characters are 4-B?

Besides, there's also this thing Azzy brought up on Maui's talk page.

"Shouldn't Maui's low end be something along the lines of "At least 6-A/High 6-A" or something of that nature? He did manage to hold his own against Te K─ü, whose alternate/true self (Te Fiti) Created all land masses/islands in the world back when it was only inhabited by the ocean. There's also the fact that the Ocean itself needed Maui to return the Heart of Te Fiti, despite the fact that it showed actual sentience and the ability to move and act however it chose to.

There should probably also be a key for de-powered Maui, as he spends a good portion of the movie without his fish hook, during which time he is immensely less powerful."

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the fish hook only allows him to shapeshift into larger forms, as far as I am aware. It does not make him more physically powerful in his regular form.

Nevertheless, the problem is that he never demonstrated anywhere near that kind of scale in practice. He supposedly dragged up islands from the ocean floor off-screen, but that is it.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I didn't make the claim, it comes from Azzy.

And Sora and Riku never demonstrate anywhere near 4-B scale power in the games, nor does Goku Black display Universal power, it doesn't mean we'll downgrade them.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Either way, I don't have much to comment on, especially since I'm trying to avoid spoilers from the movie. I'd prefer if we wait for Azathoth, as he seems to have seen the film as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Sora did stand up to a being that demonstrated such power, and Goku Black was stronger than Goku.

However, the characters within Maui's Disney movie have no feats whatsoever of anywhere near that scale.

Still, you can ask Azathoth for input here, if you wish.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He did lasso the sun in the backstory, that's a fact.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So what if the sun in the myth isn't like the real world's? This is a Disney movie that is not at all faithful to the mythology, and we have no evidence that the Earth is flat. Maiu lassoed the sun, and pulled the islands from the sea, and not just small islands, regular islands.

The legend that references involves him pulling an entire archipelago from the seas.

 

[Ryukama]

Well if the Disney movie isn't faithful to the mythology, then there isn't an issue. I'd only agree with the downgrade if the film treated the sun as a much smaller living creature like the original narrative does.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The drawings on his skin represent the sun as such, but the sun we see in the sky in the movie is no different than the real life one.

But this isn't an inconsistency, the drawings on his skin are mythological representations of what he did, and none of the artwork is particularly realistic in scale nor detail.

https://youtu.be/79DijItQXMM?t=52

^ Feats.

Maui lifted the sky by himself, and also lassoed the sun and pulled the islands with his fishhook.

So I think that "High 6-A, 4-C with Fishhook" is a good rating.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So I think that "High 6-A, 4-C with Fishhook" is a good rating.

This would probably be fine, in my opinion. For reasons I've already stated, of course. My one contention would be I'm not sure he should scale without the Fishook. "Without my hook, I'm nothing." and everything we see in the movie seems to suggest he's nowhere near as powerful without it. Tamatoa, who was a rival to Maui, was horrified of the power he held when wielding the hook, but absolutely bodied him when Maui was out of practice with it.

Maui doesn't really do anything impressive in the movie, but we are specifically told of his feats, which are expressed to be things he actually did, none of which is in any way contradicted.

It also seems weird to say the islands he pulled up were "small islands" when not only did Te Fiti just straight up create all land when there was just ocean covering the Earth (much of which Maui was said to later help pull up), but that actually inhabited islands we see in the movie are pretty clearly regular islands, and are still just the homes of a limited number of voyagers, so not even a large chunk of humanity or anything ridiculous like that.

As has already been stated, the movie also does not strictly follow Polynesian mythology to the letter. Te Fiti, the goddess central to the plot of the movie and progenitor of all land in the world, is not an actual figure from said mythology the film is inspired by. Similarly, the sun we see in the movie is literally just the regular sun with regular day/night cycles (thanks to Maui), as opposed to a god who circles the sky. Furthermore, movie Maui is explicitly weaker than the gods, as he was nearly killed fighting Te-Ka, and Te-Fiti was able to instantly create a new Fishhook out of nothing, which is the source of most of Maui's power. Obviously, it goes its own way.

 

[Ryukama]

Matt and Azathoth seem to make sense. I've also seen some scenes of Moana and they show the sun in what appears to be true to the real world. I doesn't appear that the Disney film is following actual Polynesian mythology that well.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I've just finished seeing Moana myself (Like, literally just finished), and I also agree with the rating. I'll be making Te-Ka/Te-Fiti's page to help explain the scaling with Maui.

"movie Maui is explicitly weaker than the gods, as he was nearly killed fighting Te-Ka"

To be fair, it was a close fight, and Maui ended up severing Te-Ka's hands several times.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, okay then. I suppose that the movie was just extremely inconsistent.

 

[Penguinkingpin]

Hi, just wanted to add something that seemed to be left out here, to me at least, their was the line in his song where he said "What has two thumbs and pulled up the sky when you were waddling yay high, this guy" which if I'm not mistaken is a high 6-A feat, holding up the sky that is.

 

[Reppuzan]

Last I checked, that's Island level (according to Darkanine anyway).

Mass of the atmosphere:

5.1480×10^18 kg

Potential Energy formula:

5.1480*10^8kg * 9.8 m/s^2 * 2 m (guessing Maui's height here) = 1.009*10^20 J = Island level

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ever

He inflicted damage on Te Ka, but damage that was overall superficial. Te Ka healed almost instantly while Maui was about to be killed before Moana got Te Ka's attention.

Not to mention she one-shotted him in the past, assuming the opening scene is how things actually happened.

Also (at least) Maui's low end scales to Tamatoa, obviously. This is just letting everyone know.

 

[Ryukama]

@Azathoth If Maui did so terribly yet still somewhat had a fight with Te Ka, would an "At most ___" be appropriate? Or would he have to scale to someone else?

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Azzy

I wouldn't exactly call cutting off hands superficial even if they quickly regenerated, but it doesn't matter in terms of tiering.

Here's what I got for Te-Fiti's profile. Just waiting for Rep to see my editable link on chat so he can fill in the intelligence.

@Ryu

Maui still has another High 6-A feat via being > The Ocean (As weird as that sounds it's true).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Azathoth If Maui did so terribly yet still somewhat had a fight with Te Ka, would an "At most ___" be appropriate?

Nah, because all the best feats we know of belong to Maui. We just know Te Fiti/Te Ka is explicitly superior, so they scale to him.

 

[Ryukama]

@Ever and Azzy Sure thing then. Thanks.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Azzy

Since I don't really know how to handle Maui's profile, you want to make the revisions to it?

 

[Penguinkingpin]

@Ever Can I recommend an edit for the Te-Fiti page? Under Te-Fiti's weaknesses as Te-Fiti, it should be added that if her heart is stolen from her, she will revert back into Te-Ka.

 

[Penguinkingpin]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I can make the edit for you.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. It seems like there is no Te-Fiti page.

 

[Penguinkingpin]

Well, I have a layout for Te-Fiti's page on Google docs that was shared with me, I've just never made a page before and don't know how to link the abilities they have to the correct pages. https://docs.google.com/document/d/14W1fA7wp1bVzKWQENOqC9kW8PGwETReFqg5waQoaQGg/edit# Here's the layout if you yourself wish to attempt to make the page

 

[Antvasima]

It seems fine. You should be able to copy-paste the information on your own.

 

[Penguinkingpin]

Ok