MCU - Makkari Afterimage Creation and Eternals Speed Revision

[Marvel_Champion_07]

As stated here:

It's called persistence of vision, it's like your eye can not look past a certain speed. Whatever you see is in the past. So we tried to play with that a little bit. So Makkari is here, but she moves so fast that she's already away. And we did a lot of that; you see that a lot in the fight she has with Ikarus. Because sometimes Ikarus shoots at her, you see her in the distance, but she's already in front of him, and Ikarus didn't notice, and that makes her invincible in a way. He had to catch her before she came, and she was too fast to stop herself, that's the only way he managed to catch her. Otherwise, you can't, because she's always gone when you think that she's somewhere. So that was what we tried to play with when it comes to Makkari.

So basically, Makkari should get Afterimage Creation and Ikaris (likewise the other Eternals) shouldn't scale to her, since the only reason she could catch her is because she was running too fast to stop herself at the time

Also, Makkari is stated to be the fastest woman in the universe who scouts planets for the Eternals, which should warrant her scaling to Captain Marvel (NOT TO HER FLIGHT SPEED IN SPACE, since that was already rejected)

 

[Propellus]

This does seem fair unless this is only upscaling to her Relativistic+ speed. I agree

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[ByArrow]

I agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@Qawsedf234 @Lonkitt @Colonel_Krukov @Emirp sumitpo would you mind giving input here please?

 

[Lonkitt]

Seems fine

 

[Qawsedf234]

What would Eternals speed scaling be if they lose Makkari?

 

[Propellus]

What would Eternals speed scaling be if they lose Makkari?

Assuming it's to Ikaris' MHS+ rating

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Assuming it's to Ikaris' MHS+ rating

Yes

 

[Qawsedf234]

Assuming it's to Ikaris' MHS+ rating

Flying in a straight line upwards is considered a travel speed feat without more context to it.

 

[Propellus]

Did Ikaris have any issues with reacting to anything with his flight? I mean him just flying into space seems fine, but I will say that him flying to the sun is just flight speed.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Flying in a straight line upwards is considered a travel speed feat without more context to it.

Ikaris can fight and keep up with Deviants while in-flight

 

[Qawsedf234]

Did Ikaris have any issues with reacting to anything with his flight?

He wouldn't have to. The feat needs to proven as useable, not the other way around.

Regarding Travel/Flight Feats and Reactions​

If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved.

The typical example of such cases of travel/flight speed that doesn't necessarily scale to reactions is space travel. As space is incredibly empty there are virtually no objects one has to navigate around between destinations. Just flying in a straight line from A to B would be safe. At the same time the typical destinations, such as stars and planets, are so large that they can easily be seen from millions of kilometers away. As a result a character would only need reactions equal to a miniscule fraction of their travel speed to perform a safe and precise landing on them.

 

[Propellus]

He wouldn't have to. The feat needs to proven as useable, not the other way around.

See my edited reply

 

[Propellus]

Ikaris can fight and keep up with Deviants while in-flight

And actually, Marvel also sent evidence that Ikaris can indeed to react to stuff and fight while flying with that speed. And again, the speed feat was just about Ikaris flying into space instantly from the atmosphere, it's not really spaceflight. What's really flight speed about it is Ikaris flying to the sun later on, but that's that. But if you truly believe the case of the speed feat only being flight speed, then what good speed feat are you suggesting?

 

[Qawsedf234]

fight while flying with that speed

He showed that while flying Ikaris can fight. He would need to prove Ikaris is flying at that speed in that scene for it to scale to combat speed.

Ikaris flying into space instantly from the atmosphere, it's not really spaceflight

That would still be flight speed

If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles

The terrain just needs to be empty of obstacles and the person can't make sudden changes in movement.

 

[Propellus]

He showed that while flying Ikaris can fight. He would need to prove Ikaris is flying at that speed in that scene for it to scale to combat speed.

But then why exactly would Ikaris start holding back his flight speed in those scenes?

That would still be flight speed

I'm not saying no, I'm just saying that it's possible that his flight speed can be applicable to his combat speed.

The terrain just needs to be empty of obstacles and the person can't make sudden changes in movement.

Yes, but the point is, your reactions in order to scale to your own flight would have to give you precise maneuverability.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But then why exactly would Ikaris start holding back his flight speed in those scenes?

Why would it be holding back? For all we know he requires distances and acceleration to achieve those speeds.

I'm not saying no, I'm just saying that it's possible that his flight speed can be applicable to his combat speed.

It can be, but it has to be proven with a reaction statement since the feat itself didn't involve any complex movements.

reactions in order to scale to your own flight would have to give you precise maneuverability.

Only if he maneuvers or fights at those speeds. The issue is that the MHS+ fear is him flying in a straight line upwards. Which involves neither.

 

[Propellus]

If that were the case, then what other good speed feat does the Eternals have according to you if Ikaris' speed is not applicable? Because usually those kinds of speeds are still useful as a last resort if there aren't any other good speed feats besides travel/flight.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Eternals have according to you if Ikaris' speed is not applicable?

I don't know, which is why I was asking

 

[Propellus]

I'll wait for more opinions

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

The purpose of this CRT was just to give Makkari Afterimage Creation, remove the reaction speed rating from the Eternals and potentially scale Makkari to Captain Marvel in a way that hasn't been rejected yet.

It wasn't meant to revise all the other Eternals speed rating, so I'd prefer if that was left for another CRT, but I wouldn't mind if this one also addresses that

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sure I guess. But ultimately if you're removing her scaling, you are required to provide alternative speed scaling for the rest. Which is why it's important.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

But ultimately if you're removing her scaling, you are required to provide alternative speed scaling for the rest

The non-Makkari Eternals' current speed ratings are "Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed with At most Sub-Relativistic reaction speed".

This CRT would just remove the "At most Sub-Relativistic reaction speed" since Ikaris is no longer scaling to Makkari, but the other Eternals, such as Gilgamesh and Thena, are still scaling to Ikaris since they can fight Deviants that "give him a hard time" or outright keep up with him

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alright

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I've applied the changes then. This can be closed